Jonathan_Gale
Active
"Spirit" also means "breath", "soul" means "living being". God breathed it into Adam formed of dust, and Adam came to life, that's the definition. Paul quoted it in 1 Cor. 15:45.
What to expect in hell
- Thread starter KingJ
- Start date
Jonathan_Gale
Active
It is unfortunate that in modern English, "soul" is confused with "spirit" as it's general understood as the immortal, immaterial entity of an individual, that's from ancient gnosticism, which is not biblical. "Nephesh" in the OT and "psyche" in the NT are common words, in a lot of cases they are translated as "Living Creatures", "People" and "Life", in Gen. 2:7 and 1 Cor. 15:45 a clear definition is given, which is "living being".
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com
Interpreting "psyche" as "soul"?
In the New Testament the Greek term "psyche" often, if not always, gets translated as "soul." Would the original author using that term have meant "psyche" like we mean it today? Or, more precisely...
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com
Where does torture come into the picture?!
And why would God be upset with the results of the poll.
KingJ
Loyal
Agreed. But I don't think that is what Jonathan is saying.
I read it as he is saying, body dies and spirit is amalgamated with God, good or bad.
See post 8 and 9 here Original sin - Undermines God's nature.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
Nope, only the Holy Spirit. Evil spirits go down into the Lake of Fire, that’s why it’s called the SECOND death. The flesh doesn’t return to dust for a second time, God is not digging up the body and throwing it into the flame. You've heard the saying, "believers die once, live twice; unbelievers live once, die twice." It doesn't say "thrice" for "body, mind and spirit", it only says twice, and for both belivers and unbelievers, it's referring to the body and the spirit.
KingJ
Loyal
Ok, so you believe in annihilationism. Thanks for clarifying.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
No I don't. I believe in resurrection of the body and eternal torture of evil spirits. Not eternal torture of the body.
Butch5
Active
One thing many Westerners don't realize is that we think along the lines of the Greeks. Paul said the Gospel was foolishness to the Greeks because the denied the resurrection. The problem is that many western Christians today hold many of those same beliefs that the Greeks did, this idea of an immortal soul being one of the primary ones. This one doctrine leads many astray in other areas too. For instance, eternal torment stems from this immortal soul doctrine. If man is immortal and can't be in God's presence, he has to be somewhere, and so is born the doctrine of eternal torment. If Christians could get this (one of the most fundamental doctrines) correct much of the other errors would correct themselves. This one error takes Christians into mythology.It is unfortunate that in modern English, "soul" is confused with "spirit" as it's general understood as the immortal, immaterial entity of an individual, that's from ancient gnosticism, which is not biblical. "Nephesh" in the OT and "psyche" in the NT are common words, in a lot of cases they are translated as "Living Creatures", "People" and "Life", in Gen. 2:7 and 1 Cor. 15:45 a clear definition is given, which is "living being".
Interpreting "psyche" as "soul"?
In the New Testament the Greek term "psyche" often, if not always, gets translated as "soul." Would the original author using that term have meant "psyche" like we mean it today? Or, more precisely...
Butch5
Active
Look at the poll. 75% of respondents chose,
"Eternal torment - torturous, excruciating pain and suffering, no pets
Votes: 9 75.0%".
Why would He be upset? I imagine if had children who said they loved me yet told everyone that I tortured people I'd be upset.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
I do believe eternal torment for the evil spirits, though, proof text is in Matt. 8:29. All the false deities, all the "isms", religions, ideologies, you know. Like homosexuality and child sacrifice, those could be traced back to the days of Noah and they were specifically addressed in the Torah. These spirits didn't die or disappear, they are revived in recent decades when America turned its back to God. People who practice those die, but not these spirits. Since they didn't die or disappear, they had to be banished and locked up forever, that's what the Lake of Fire is for.
Butch5
Active
I agree except that I believe the evil spirits will likewise be destroyed.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
While once they are in there, they're good as being "destroyed".
Matthew 8:29. The background is the two demon-possessed men , coming out of the tombs , exceedingly fierce, do that no one could pass that way. They were asking Jesus , they were recognizing Him to be the Son of God. They assumed He was there to torment them before their time in hell came in the future eternity.
Butch5
Active
I believe, based on Jeremiah, Gehenna will be restored
Beetow
Active
The wrath of God is interesting. For example:
• Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of The Lord comes-- cruel; with both wrath and fierce
anger
The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is 'ebrah (eb-raw') which indicates
an outburst of passion. In other words: the wrath of God won't be weeping big wet
crocodile tears while it's slamming the dead at the Great White Throne event
depicted at Rev 20:11-15; no, they will be terminated with extreme prejudice; viz:
their judgment will be administered with choler. (cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)
Webster's defines "fierce" as a behavior exhibited by humans and animals that
inspires terror because of the wild and menacing aspect of fury in attack. Ferocity is
an aspect commonly seen among carnivorous beasts savagely attacking prey.
There's neither sportsmanship nor sympathy in ferocity; only sheer terror, brutality,
and blood lust.
"cruel" is defined as: disposed to inflict pain or suffering; viz: devoid of humane
feelings
• Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation
"fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation. It speaks of
someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that they're actually red in the
face.
There are people out there in pews all around the world who have been so coddled
by sappy versions of Christianity that they have no concept of the magnitude of the
lethal tsunami of rage and violence coming their way to get them.
Another interesting aspect of the wrath of God is the person appointed to
administer it-- none other than the sweet little babe away in a manger.
• John 5:22-23 . .The Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the
Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
• Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by
the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from
the dead.
• Rev 19:15 . . He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the winepress
of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
_
• Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of The Lord comes-- cruel; with both wrath and fierce
anger
The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is 'ebrah (eb-raw') which indicates
an outburst of passion. In other words: the wrath of God won't be weeping big wet
crocodile tears while it's slamming the dead at the Great White Throne event
depicted at Rev 20:11-15; no, they will be terminated with extreme prejudice; viz:
their judgment will be administered with choler. (cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)
Webster's defines "fierce" as a behavior exhibited by humans and animals that
inspires terror because of the wild and menacing aspect of fury in attack. Ferocity is
an aspect commonly seen among carnivorous beasts savagely attacking prey.
There's neither sportsmanship nor sympathy in ferocity; only sheer terror, brutality,
and blood lust.
"cruel" is defined as: disposed to inflict pain or suffering; viz: devoid of humane
feelings
• Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation
"fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation. It speaks of
someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that they're actually red in the
face.
There are people out there in pews all around the world who have been so coddled
by sappy versions of Christianity that they have no concept of the magnitude of the
lethal tsunami of rage and violence coming their way to get them.
Another interesting aspect of the wrath of God is the person appointed to
administer it-- none other than the sweet little babe away in a manger.
• John 5:22-23 . .The Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the
Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
• Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by
the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from
the dead.
• Rev 19:15 . . He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the winepress
of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
_
Butch5
Active
One of the biggest misunderstandings in Christisnity is the doctrine of man. If Christians could get this one (foundational) doctrine correct it would clear up much of the errors in modern day Christianity. The refusal to do so continues to lead the majority down a path of error. One error builds on another until we have a complete system of error. That is what we have today.
Butch5
Active
Of the wicked? They die a second time, thus the second death.