Marriage in the days of Jesus

[Samson2020]

It is because of this, the Laws of Moses, that Joseph knew he could never finalize the marriage by having children with Mary. To do so would be adultry.

God never married Mary.
Matt 1:20 But while he(Joseph) thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph
thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Was He contemplating whether to take her as his wife? Yes. Adultery on her part? maybe. Would that have been enough to break it off? Sure.
But the angel of the Lord put all of that to rest, saying that he should FEAR NOT TO TAKE HER AS HIS WIFE.
Ok so to consummate the marriage, interaction was required. No defrauding one another, part of the prenup arrangement.

One last thought. The children of Mary and Joseph were fathered by Joseph. The child of Mary and the Holy Ghost was Jesus. That would make
all His brothers and sisters, HALVES. Same mom, different dad.
The overshadowing of Mary by the HG was simply AI as we would call it today. No need for any kind of interaction here just a ribbon of DNA
from the Father side and an egg from Mary.
One might say she was chosen as a SURROGATE.

 

[complete]

It is because of this, the Laws of Moses, that Joseph knew he could never finalize the marriage by having children with Mary. To do so would be adultery.

Hello @Bill,

What Scriptures can you provide for this, please?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[joestue]

It is because of this, the Laws of Moses, that Joseph knew he could never finalize the marriage by having children with Mary. To do so would be adultry.

yep, because he didn't know who the father was...

 

[Bill]

yep, because he didn't know who the father was...

Huh? Well yes, Joseph didn't at first.

But in Hebrew tradition, the marraige is blessed by God, via children. And as scripture states, let no man separate what God has united. The two become one.

 

[Bill]

Hello @Bill,

What Scriptures can you provide for this, please?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hebrew tradition. What God unites, let no man divide. And as Mary had a child, it proves the union took place.

Mary could not complete her marriage with Joseph as it would be an act of adultery.

Hebrew teaching only allows a second marriage if the husband or wife dies

 

[Samson2020]

Hebrew tradition. What God unites, let no man divide. And as Mary had a child, it proves the union took place.

Mary could not complete her marriage with Joseph as it would be an act of adultery.

Hebrew teaching only allows a second marriage if the husband or wife dies

That is to say the least an extreme stretch.
God is/was not a man much less a Hebrew.
And there is another problem with that. That being that there could never be another Jesus, as God only needed one Son.
Mary on the other hand needed heirs to care for her in old age, like all the Hebrews. Jesus was destined for the cross from before His
birth. How would He be the Heir to take care of her or Joseph after crucifixion?

The other issue as noted by:

Matt 1:20 But while he(Joseph) thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph
thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

He was told to take her as his wife, according to the words of the book.
Matt 1:24-25 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, AND TOOK UNTO HIM HIS WIFE:
and he KNEW HER NOT TILL SHE HAD BROUGHT FORTH HER FIRSTBORN SON: and he called His name Jesus.

As you can see Joseph took Mary as his wife and only knew her after the birth of Jesus. But he did have her as wife and knew her, according to
scripture.

 

[Bill]

That is to say the least an extreme stretch.
God is/was not a man much less a Hebrew.
And there is another problem with that. That being that there could never be another Jesus, as God only needed one Son.
Mary on the other hand needed heirs to care for her in old age, like all the Hebrews. Jesus was destined for the cross from before His
birth. How would He be the Heir to take care of her or Joseph after crucifixion?

The other issue as noted by:

He was told to take her as his wife, according to the words of the book.
Matt 1:24-25 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, AND TOOK UNTO HIM HIS WIFE:
and he KNEW HER NOT TILL SHE HAD BROUGHT FORTH HER FIRSTBORN SON: and he called His name Jesus.

As you can see Joseph took Mary as his wife and only knew her after the birth of Jesus. But he did have her as wife and knew her, according to
scripture.

It is a greater stretch to say that God will not follow His own words. As God made the Covenant between man and Himself that He is bound by His own Covenant, His own words.

 

[lentz]

Other than sleeping with the woman in Old Testament and getting drunk at the wedding in the New,still there is no proper procedure laid out as to how to conduct a wedding

 

[Bill]

Other than sleeping with the woman in Old Testament and getting drunk at the wedding in the New,still there is no proper procedure laid out as to how to conduct a wedding

It would sure be nice to have a professor on Jewish law Hebrew law as far as marriage goes, to give a really good explanation here

 

[Bill]

God never married Mary.
Matt 1:20 But while he(Joseph) thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph
thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Was He contemplating whether to take her as his wife? Yes. Adultery on her part? maybe. Would that have been enough to break it off? Sure.
But the angel of the Lord put all of that to rest, saying that he should FEAR NOT TO TAKE HER AS HIS WIFE.
Ok so to consummate the marriage, interaction was required. No defrauding one another, part of the prenup arrangement.

One last thought. The children of Mary and Joseph were fathered by Joseph. The child of Mary and the Holy Ghost was Jesus. That would make
all His brothers and sisters, HALVES. Same mom, different dad.
The overshadowing of Mary by the HG was simply AI as we would call it today. No need for any kind of interaction here just a ribbon of DNA
from the Father side and an egg from Mary.
One might say she was chosen as a SURROGATE.

Not as we understand it you mean, because it's pretty obvious that God made Mary His spouse and begot a Son with her

 

[Hekuran]

Not as we understand it you mean, because it's pretty obvious that God made Mary His spouse and begot a Son with her

That's not at all obvious. Quite the contrary. And Mary was already betrothed to Joseph at the time of the annunciation, which would make God the usurper. Weird.

Her husband Joseph, being a righteous man and unwilling to expose her to public disgrace, planned to divorce her quietly. But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

An angel of the Lord instructs Joseph to take Mary as his wife – which would be extremely awkward if she was already God's wife.

When Mary (Luke's gospel) asks the angel "how can this be?" she is told the Holy Spirit will come upon her, and the power of the Most High will overshadow her. No mention of God making her his spouse.

 

[lentz]

I think the “obvious “ message here, is that we are Gods creatures,he may use us in what ever way pleases him and brings him glory.
He can not be a usurper if he is the one who created and owns what he uses.
No matter what he does,or how he does it,it is his prerogative,as well as righteous and holy.

 

[Bill]

That's not at all obvious. Quite the contrary. And Mary was already betrothed to Joseph at the time of the annunciation, which would make God the usurper. Weird.

Her husband Joseph, being a righteous man and unwilling to expose her to public disgrace, planned to divorce her quietly. But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

An angel of the Lord instructs Joseph to take Mary as his wife – which would be extremely awkward if she was already God's wife.

When Mary (Luke's gospel) asks the angel "how can this be?" she is told the Holy Spirit will come upon her, and the power of the Most High will overshadow her. No mention of God making her his spouse.

So God committed adultry? Or did Joseph, if he had children with Mary after Jesus was born?

 

[Bill]

I think the “obvious “ message here, is that we are Gods creatures,he may use us in what ever way pleases him and brings him glory.
He can not be a usurper if he is the one who created and owns what he uses.
No matter what he does,or how he does it,it is his prerogative,as well as righteous and holy.

He, God, has to follow His own rules, that of the first Covenant.

 

[Hekuran]

So God committed adultry? Or did Joseph, if he had children with Mary after Jesus was born?

Joseph did have children with Mary. Jesus' brothers – James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas – are mentioned in Matthew 13:55.

I'd take a dim view of any man who slept with a woman who was betrothed to another. I don't see why a divine being doing the same should be less disgusting.

And you seem to have abandoned the idea of a virgin birth, rather gods having sexual relations with human women similar to Genesis 6.

 

[B-A-C]

There was a very good chance that Mary was married again after Joseph. This wouldn't be a sin if Joseph died.

How do we arrive at this?

We know that James was Jesus's half-brother. Probably Jude also.

Gal 1:19; But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord's brother.
Jude 1:1; Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are the called, beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ:

There was another James, one of the sons of Thunder, the sons of Zebedee. But this one was called "James the less". Usually meaning James the younger.
It was very uncommon for disciples to be older than their tutor/mentor in those days, but not completely unheard of. There was another Judas also ( Iscariot )

We know that Mary had sons named James and Jude.

Matt 13:55; "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
Mark 6:3; "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him.

But we also know that Joseph wasn't James and Jude's father.

Luke 6:16; Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.
Acts 1:13; When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James.

So either Mary wasn't a virgin when she married Joseph ( as she had at least two sons not by Joseph )
..or, she was married after Joseph... possibly twice. One of Jesus's brothers was named Joses or Joseph, this one was likely Joseph's biological son, as son's were typically named after their fathers.

So then, if Mary is the "mother of God", how many gods was she the mother of? The other option is .. Mary got around while she was married to Joseph.

Mark 15:40; There were also some women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and Joses, and Salome.
Mark 16:1; When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.

Matt 10:3; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;
Mark 3:18; and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Zealot;
Luke 6:15; and Matthew and Thomas; James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon who was called the Zealot;
Acts 1:13; When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James.

 

[Bill]

Joseph did have children with Mary. Jesus' brothers – James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas – are mentioned in Matthew 13:55.

I'd take a dim view of any man who slept with a woman who was betrothed to another. I don't see why a divine being doing the same should be less disgusting.

And you seem to have abandoned the idea of a virgin birth, rather gods having sexual relations with human women similar to Genesis 6.

No I'm a firm believer of the Virgin birth plus I'm a firm believer that Mary didn't have children with Joseph either. It's because of the laws of Moses that I believe that. Because in the laws of Moses the confirmation of God's blessing was proven via having a child and since Mary conceived Jesus there had to been a union that took place.

I know where the Catholic Church stands on the whole business about the brothers and sisters of Jesus, there is stances that it's in the terminology that everyone up to the first cousins were referred to as brothers and sisters.

However I'm open to this idea that someone brought up here and talk Jesus, that Joseph had children with someone else prior to getting married to Mary. Because we know that Joseph was older than Mary by some years and he was also very strict with the law even on his own behalf. So there's a good possibility that Joseph did have other children already with a first wife. This is all speculation obviously but it does make more sense than anything else.

 

[B-A-C]

he was also very strict with the law even on his own behalf.

Assuming you are right about all you said. Why would it be OK for Joseph to re-marry but not Mary?

 

[Hekuran]

...since Mary conceived Jesus there had to been a union that took place.

If a union took place, Mary would not have remained a virgin.

 

[lentz]

Some people argue over the dumbest things