Marriage in the days of Jesus

[Bill]

Assuming you are right about all you said. Why would it be OK for Joseph to re-marry but not Mary?

The understanding would be that Joseph's first wife had passed away

 

[Bill]

Some people argue over the dumbest things

LOL how true that is

 

[B-A-C]

The understanding would be that Joseph's first wife had passed away

So then, with that logic, why wouldn't Mary re-marry if Joseph died?

Matt 1:20; But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
Matt 1:24; And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,
Matt 1:25; but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

 

[Bill]

So then, with that logic, why wouldn't Mary re-marry if Joseph died?

First off we have to think of it as Mary having a union with God and that God told Joseph to go ahead and get married with Mary. But Joseph would know that he could not consummate the marriage, completing the marriage. He would have to remain celibate with her, otherwise he would be committing adultery with her.

Even though Joseph claimed her as his wife, he would never be able to consummate the marriage. He willingly accepted this.

Mary always had the union with God.

It could be that Joseph had a marriage before, and his wife passing away. To me it does make sense.

But as far as Joseph goes, even though they had a marriage it never was consummated, it could never be consummated. Mary was always in Union with God

 

[Brad Huber]

First off we have to think of it as Mary having a union with God and that God told Joseph to go ahead and get married with Mary. But Joseph would know that he could not consummate the marriage, completing the marriage. He would have to remain celibate with her, otherwise he would be committing adultery with her.

Even though Joseph claimed her as his wife, he would never be able to consummate the marriage. He willingly accepted this.

Mary always had the union with God.

It could be that Joseph had a marriage before, and his wife passing away. To me it does make sense.

But as far as Joseph goes, even though they had a marriage it never was consummated, it could never be consummated. Mary was always in Union with God

She had to still be married to God, because neither God or her wanted a divorce. Joseph was more like a provider to help Mary not be destitute. People thought that either Joseph was the father of Jesus or that Joseph didnt care and raised Jesus as his own. The people would not understand such a thing. If you raise a child as your own, its still considered to be your child.

 

[Hekuran]

First off we have to think of it as Mary having a union with God and that God told Joseph to go ahead and get married with Mary. But Joseph would know that he could not consummate the marriage, completing the marriage. He would have to remain celibate with her, otherwise he would be committing adultery with her.

Even though Joseph claimed her as his wife, he would never be able to consummate the marriage. He willingly accepted this.

Mary always had the union with God.

It could be that Joseph had a marriage before, and his wife passing away. To me it does make sense.

But as far as Joseph goes, even though they had a marriage it never was consummated, it could never be consummated. Mary was always in Union with God

I find it very difficult to believe that you are seriously suggesting Mary had sex with God.

I have checked several Roman Catholic sources. Some choose to describe her as the spouse of God, but that label comes with several qualifications, similar to Mother of God. None suggest sexual congress bwtween Mary and God.

You are astray from the scriptures, tradition of the church and common decency here.

 

[Brad Huber]

I find it very difficult to believe that you are seriously suggesting Mary had sex with God.

I have checked several Roman Catholic sources. Some choose to describe her as the spouse of God, but that label comes with several qualifications, similar to Mother of God. None suggest sexual congress bwtween Mary and God.

You are astray from the scriptures, tradition of the church and common decency here.

God created life, all he had to do was create a "Holy" seed inside Mary, of course He didnt rape Mary. But a union is still a union.

 

[Hekuran]

God created life, all he had to do was create a "Holy" seed inside Mary, of course He didnt rape Mary. But a union is still a union.

Yes, God created the world and everything we know from nothing, so a virgin conception is no problem.

I dont see why this has to be a sexual union between God and a human woman.

 

[Brad Huber]

Yes, God created the world and everything we know from nothing, so a virgin conception is no problem.

I dont see why this has to be a sexual union between God and a human woman.

Dont know about anyone else, but I am pretty sure Bill never said anything about a "sexual" union. But I suppose some might see it that way since the Holy Spirit caused that life of Christ appear in Mary's womb.

 

[Hekuran]

Dont know about anyone else, but I am pretty sure Bill never said anything about a "sexual" union. But I suppose some might see it that way since the Holy Spirit caused that life of Christ appear in Mary's womb.

Bill said:

"it's pretty obvious that God made Mary His spouse and begot a Son with her."

If I've misunderstood him on this point I'd be 1) a little relieved 2) happy to be corrected.

 

[Brad Huber]

Bill said:

"it's pretty obvious that God made Mary His spouse and begot a Son with her."

If I've misunderstood him on this point I'd be 1) a little relieved 2) happy to be corrected.

He logic'd out the spouse thing and scriptuer says "only begotten Son".

 

[Bill]

Bill said:

"it's pretty obvious that God made Mary His spouse and begot a Son with her."

If I've misunderstood him on this point I'd be 1) a little relieved 2) happy to be corrected.

I know it's difficult to understand sometimes when it comes to things about God, in my mind it has to do with the mystery of God it's the only way that can be really explained. We can't look at it as a concept of sex in the idea that humans have or in the Legends of people like Zeus that come down and have sex with female humans and then have offspring.

We have to remember that God considers marriage as a holy sacrament, something that's also binding with God. So when we look at a union that takes place between God and Mary that God considers that very holy. God is Holy.

Much in the same way that the Covenant is considered holy before God too, and the Covenant that Mary was keeping was the first Covenant which included the laws of Moses. I do not believe that the laws of Moses are all intact into the New Testament you would have to go to a Jewish synagogue to dig up all the laws of Moses. Plus maybe they have a better understanding of The Binding principle of those laws especially the laws of unions, betrothal and marriage. Maybe even some Jewish Christian that has a better understanding than anyone here on talk to Jesus has, who could really explain that better for all of us.

 

[Hekuran]

@Bill this is a mess. There are so many ethical, theological and logical problems here that it's difficult to know where to start.

In addition, what you are saying is supported by neither the Bible text or the tradition of the church.

Neither the church nor the Bible support the idea that God took Mary as his wife, or had a union with her that resulted in pregnancy.

 

[Bill]

@Bill this is a mess. There are so many ethical, theological and logical problems here that it's difficult to know where to start.

In addition, what you are saying is supported by neither the Bible text or the tradition of the church.

Neither the church nor the Bible support the idea that God took Mary as his wife, or had a union with her that resulted in pregnancy.

And where did Jesus come from?

 

[Hekuran]

And where did Jesus come from?

I'm sure you know the answer to this. Both Matthew and Luke give an account.

Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been engaged to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. Her husband Joseph, being a righteous man and unwilling to expose her to public disgrace, planned to dismiss her quietly. But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, ‘Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.’ All this took place to fulfil what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet:

‘Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall name him Emmanuel’,
which means, ‘God is with us.’ When Joseph awoke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took her as his wife, but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; and he named him Jesus.

and

...the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. And he came to her and said, ‘Greetings, favoured one! The Lord is with you.’ But she was much perplexed by his words and pondered what sort of greeting this might be. The angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his ancestor David. He will reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.’ Mary said to the angel, ‘How can this be, since I am a virgin?’ The angel said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God.

 

[Bill]

I'm sure you know the answer to this. Both Matthew and Luke give an account.

Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been engaged to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. Her husband Joseph, being a righteous man and unwilling to expose her to public disgrace, planned to dismiss her quietly. But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, ‘Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.’ All this took place to fulfil what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet:

‘Look, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall name him Emmanuel’,
which means, ‘God is with us.’ When Joseph awoke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him; he took her as his wife, but had no marital relations with her until she had borne a son; and he named him Jesus.

and

...the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. And he came to her and said, ‘Greetings, favoured one! The Lord is with you.’ But she was much perplexed by his words and pondered what sort of greeting this might be. The angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favour with God. And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his ancestor David. He will reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.’ Mary said to the angel, ‘How can this be, since I am a virgin?’ The angel said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God.

It is not worth the arguement to be honest. Trying to explain the Mystery of God. We will be here for decades and get no closer than we are right now.

If you wish to continue, i will respond as i can