Are we careful to abide by rules of interpretation?
- Thread starter Dylan569
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Rhema
Active
Follow the link, Bill, and you tell me what is wrong with what you said.
I rather think you looked up the wrong word.
There is quite a difference between אֱלֹהִים֙ and אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה.
Follow the link, I'm sure you'll figure it out.
Rhema
Who readily admits that Hebrew makes his head hurt.
Rhema
Active
PS: Just to say, I have the actual book in my hands, Bill, and Dylan's entry from the Greek Orthodox Study Bible is spot on.
Thank you Dylan, it rather saved me the work of typing it in.
And just for the sake of completeness.....
And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.
(Exodus 3:14 Brenton-LXX)Now I am curious what software you use....
Thanks,
Rhema
Bill
Loyal
Really there's a difference between entity and person then you don't understand God at all.You are using non-standard theological or doctrinal language that is very misleading. You wrote as follows:
"...there is a God and then there's the Spirit of God as two separate entities and yet one God"
The Athanasian Creed
"Now this is the catholic faith: that we worship one God in Trinity and the Trinity in unity, neither confounding their persons nor dividing the essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another, and that of the Holy Spirit still another. But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal." This creed is online with the scripture proofs.
Athanasian Creed According to Scripture
steadfastlutherans.org
From the Merriam-Webster
"person 3 a: one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians b: the unitary personality of Christ that unites the divine and human natures"
entity 1 a: BEING, EXISTENCE especially :independent, separate, or self-contained existence
b: the existence of a thing as contrasted with its attributes
2 : something that has separate and distinct existence and objective or conceptual reality
When you look at the definitions of the words it is obvious the problems that can develop when you leave accepted theological language. The Trinity is difficult enough without adding to the difficulty with non-standard, misleading words.
"In the beginning the Word already was. The Word was in God’s presence, and what God was, the Word was." (John 1:1 REB)
The translator discussion from the NET2.1 Bible on John 1:1 as quoted from the REB -
" From a technical standpoint, though, it is preferable to see a qualitative aspect to anarthrous θεός in John 1:1c (ExSyn 266-69). Translations like the NEB, REB, and Moffatt are helpful in capturing the sense in John 1:1c, that the Word was fully deity in essence (just as much God as God the Father). However, in contemporary English “the Word was divine” (Moffatt) does not quite catch the meaning since “divine” as a descriptive term is not used in contemporary English exclusively of God. The translation “what God was the Word was” is perhaps the most nuanced rendering, conveying that everything God was in essence, the Word was too. This points to unity of essence between the Father and the Son without equating the persons."
There is a difference between "entity" and "person" as seen in the Trinity. The Trinity is difficult enough without muddying the waters with unusual wording. You get the last word on this.
You know I really get amused when people try to tell me that God is spirit. But I do understand that that's the only way that people can describe God. Even in the scripture it's the only way that they can describe God as spirit. But God is much more than spirit. God is God and there's no real description of that. Remember God created spirits.
God is more than his creation.
To me the term entity is the best way I can describe the individual aspects of God. Others say the three persons in God, but they mean the same to me. Only twice in my life have I experienced the Trinity as One. In both cases it was in spiritual warfare, and it was the Trinity acting against the darkness.
I can say that I've heard the voice of the Trinity in that moment, it was awesome.
Bill
Loyal
So you looked it up on a computer which translates for you, you'll never understand what I'm trying to tell you. Because the computer translates it for you. Really need to go to the specific verbiage not through the computer and translate it
it came from the Reformers, Martin Luther and John Calvin.
I'm surprised you didn't know that.
Dylan569
Active
When someone tells me the Holy Spirit told them thus and so, I compare it to what the Scriptures state as -
"To the law and to the testimony! if they speak not according to this word, surely there is no morning for them." (Isa 8:20 ASV)
If it is a question of interpretation, I try to do as Jesus did when tempted by the devil. Scripture to Scripture, "It is written", "It is written", and then "Again it is written". Compare Scripture to Scripture.
Admon Mikha'el
Active
Most of what the Holy Spirit says to you is for YOU. Not for telling others...Its for YOUR growth
Curtis
Loyal
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1Jn 2:27 But as for you, the anointing (the sacred appointment, the unction) which you received from Him abides [permanently] in you; [so] then you have no need that anyone should instruct you. But just as His anointing teaches you concerning everything and is true and is no falsehood, so you must abide in (live in, never depart from) Him [being rooted in Him, knit to Him], just as [His anointing] has taught you [to do]. (AMP)
1Co 2:12 Now we have not received the spirit [that belongs to] the world, but the [Holy] Spirit Who is from God, [given to us] that we might realize and comprehend and appreciate the gifts [of divine favor and blessing so freely and lavishly] bestowed on us by God.
1Co 2:13 And we are setting these truths forth in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the [Holy] Spirit, combining and interpreting spiritual truths with spiritual language [to those who possess the Holy Spirit].
1Co 2:14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.
1Co 2:15 But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him]. (AMP)
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1Jn 2:27 But as for you, the anointing (the sacred appointment, the unction) which you received from Him abides [permanently] in you; [so] then you have no need that anyone should instruct you. But just as His anointing teaches you concerning everything and is true and is no falsehood, so you must abide in (live in, never depart from) Him [being rooted in Him, knit to Him], just as [His anointing] has taught you [to do]. (AMP)
1Co 2:12 Now we have not received the spirit [that belongs to] the world, but the [Holy] Spirit Who is from God, [given to us] that we might realize and comprehend and appreciate the gifts [of divine favor and blessing so freely and lavishly] bestowed on us by God.
1Co 2:13 And we are setting these truths forth in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the [Holy] Spirit, combining and interpreting spiritual truths with spiritual language [to those who possess the Holy Spirit].
1Co 2:14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.
1Co 2:15 But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by no one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him]. (AMP)
Twistie
Loyal
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
I think many fail to realize this is After Jesus had risen..
The entrance of thy words giveth light; It giveth understanding unto the simple
Man complicates just about everything they can it seems
＼(◎o◎)／
Twistie
Loyal
My favorite way to describe Abba is He whom is ancient before days.. idk I just really like that
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Rhema
Active
It needs saying.
Bill, what you just said here is daft... just plain daft. No computer did any translation of anything on the web page that I gave you to read, anymore than there's a computer typing all the text that gets posted here as "Bill."
I can't post photographs of the books I have, and you must think me an idiot to post confirmation that what @Dylan569 posted from the Orthodox Study Bible was word for word from the printed book I have. I posted such confirmation to address this lunacy that you can't trust anything from a computer. Maybe you can't because you have no discernment.
My apologies that I thought you could figure it out. I put you in a position beyond your abilities. But I'll make my point again.
There is quite a difference between אֱלֹהִים֙ and אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה not the least is that אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה is a verb.
You have a good day.
Rhema
What a nasty thing to say. Just plain nasty.
I DON'T USE COMPUTER TRANSLATION, YOU..... (Oh you tempt me.....)
Rhema
Active
And so you place the Holy Spirit subordinate to your books.
Dylan569
Active
The proper term is "attributes of God". To avoid thinking of God with just one attribute, such as "God is love", many illustrate the attributes like the spokes on a wagon wheel. All are needed for a proper view of God. Here are a few, God is:
Just & Holy:
O LORD, God of Israel, you are just, but we have escaped as a remnant, as is now the case. Here we are before you in our guilt, though no one can face you because of this.” (Ezra 9:15, NRSV)
the fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever; the ordinances of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. (Ps 19:9, NRSV)
They shall celebrate the fame of your abundant goodness, and shall sing aloud of your righteousness. (Ps 145:7, NRSV)
And I heard the altar respond, “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, your judgments are true and just!” (Rev 16:7, NRSV)
Omnipotent:
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless. (Gen 17:1, NRSV)
But Jesus looked at them and said, “For mortals it is impossible, but for God all things are possible.” (Matt 19:26, NRSV)
Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty thunderpeals, crying out, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. (Rev 19:6, NRSV)
Eternal:
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” He said further, “Thus you shall say to the Israelites, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” (Exod 3:14, NRSV) ** Not I have been or was; or will be... but "I AM" always, eternal
Abraham planted a tamarisk tree in Beer-sheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the Everlasting God. (Gen 21:33, NRSV)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. (Rev 1:8, NRSV)
Immutability
God is not a human being, that he should lie, or a mortal, that he should change his mind. Has he promised, and will he not do it? Has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it? (Num 23:19, NRSV)
They will perish, but you endure; they will all wear out like a garment. You change them like clothing, and they pass away; but you are the same, and your years have no end. (Ps 102:26-27, NRSV)
...I am God, and there is no one like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, “My purpose shall stand, and I will fulfill my intention,” (Isa 46:9-10, NRSV)
Every generous act of giving, with every perfect gift, is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. (Jas 1:17, NRSV)
In the same way, when God desired to show even more clearly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it by an oath, (Heb 6:17, NRSV)
Omniscient:
Set forth your case, says the LORD; bring your proofs, says the King of Jacob. Let them bring them, and tell us what is to happen. Tell us the former things, what they are, so that we may consider them, and that we may know their outcome; or declare to us the things to come. Tell us what is to come hereafter, that we may know that you are gods; do good, or do harm, that we may be afraid and terrified. You, indeed, are nothing and your work is nothing at all; whoever chooses you is an abomination. (Isa 41:21-24, NRSV)
The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good. (Prov 15:3, NRSV)
Then the spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and he said to me, “Say, Thus says the LORD: This is what you think, O house of Israel; I know the things that come into your mind. (Ezek 11:5, NRSV)
...whenever our hearts condemn us; for God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. (1John 3:20, NRSV)
Spirit:
Since you saw no form when the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire, take care and watch yourselves closely, so that you do not act corruptly by making an idol for yourselves, in the form of any figure—the likeness of male or female, the likeness of any animal that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the air, the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the water under the earth. (Deut 4:15-18, NRSV)
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24, NRSV)
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (2Cor 3:17, NRSV)
For those who wish to study on the Attributes of God, you can study them online: