The Case for a Post Trib Rapture

[Bill]

I think the time line is exact. Scripture is crystal clear on multiple occasions that the tribulation is exactly seven years and crystal clear that the millennium is the seventh day and that it is a literal thousand years of peace.

This is why the demons that Jesus cast into swine knew He came to them before 'their time'.

The tribulation, the end of the sixth day, these are not unknown dates. The rapture is the unknown day and hour.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

You have to remember that even though you can say that all of these things are exact. Some things are not correct in your interpretation. And your interpretation has been skewed because other people have had bad interpretations too.

I've tried to warn everyone a number of times that the Rapture does not exist. But no one wants to listen it's been so well preached over at least 50 years worth. So it's more of a brainwashing now, and now that I come along and tell you that it is a false teaching of course you're not going to believe me.

But if you really want to understand where I'm coming from with the Rapture issue all you have to do is look at to who does it really serve. Does it serve God that everyone comes off the planet? Or does that serve us? This is how you can tell whether or not something is from the Lord or not. Because in all the cases and I mean ALL of the cases of human history, God has never taken people off planet.

You cannot tell me that the Jews during the Holocaust did not experience the worst of the worst experiences, and yet even though they are the " apple of God's eye " , God did not take them off planet. But he allowed them to experience it all.

If God is willing to let "the apple of his eye" experience the Holocaust, then what is he willing to let us experience.

There is no way that you can tell me that we are experiencing hell on Earth anything worse than those who are living in China and those who have gone through the Holocaust. There's just no way. And like I said every single example in Scripture shows that God allows his people to go through the experience they have to live the experience.

 

[B-A-C]

I was wondering if you guys are havin

Iron sharpens iron. I feel we are having a civil discussion here. No name calling, no cursing, just a disagreement.
Jesus dd thins, Peter did thins, Moses did this, and even Paul had a disagreement at least once. Is total agreement all the time even healthy?

 

[Gerbolski]

The day of the Lord

This term is mentioned in a few ways in the bible.

It is used to refer to the second coming:

Zec 14:1-3
(1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
(2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
(3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

But also it is used to refer to the rapture of the church:

1Th 5:2
(2) For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Which this specific day of the Lord, is in reference to what is mentioned in the previous chapter:

1Th 4:15-17
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But also it is used to refer to to the time of when the heavens and the earth get burnt up, near the time of the great white throne judgment:

2Pe 3:10-13
(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
(12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
(13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

So you cannot lump that term of "the day of the Lord", to all refer to the same day, it is context that determines what the term " the day of Lord", means in any given verse.

 

[Gerbolski]

Rev 4:1
(1) After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Even though this was indeed a vision given to John of the coming tribulation period, which are things that must be hereafter, the words Come up hither, is representative of the rapture of the church.

And let us look at similarities, which I will color code.

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The events of hereafter, happen after the "Come up hither".

And concerning the tribulation period, even though there will be tribulation saints who get martyred, and become the church of that time, notice that the actual term "church", does not appear during the time of the tribulation period.

Please here me out carefully, do not add to what I said.

We see the word church, mentioned with the sevens churches:

Rev 3:22
(22) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

But within the verses that mention the great tribulation, that term is not there.

So besides the first 3 chapters of Revelations, the only time you see the word church, is when God is finished describing the 7 year trib event, which is followed by the millennial reign, and then eternity.

Here is the only verse after chapter 3.

Rev 22:16
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

[Bill]

The day of the Lord

This term is mentioned in a few ways in the bible.

It is used to refer to the second coming:

Zec 14:1-3
(1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
(2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
(3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

But also it is used to refer to the rapture of the church:

1Th 5:2
(2) For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Which this specific day of the Lord, is in reference to what is mentioned in the previous chapter:

1Th 4:15-17
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But also it is used to refer to to the time of when the heavens and the earth get burnt up, near the time of the great white throne judgment:

2Pe 3:10-13
(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
(12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
(13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

So you cannot lump that term of "the day of the Lord", to all refer to the same day, it is context that determines what the term " the day of Lord", means in any given verse.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

Is anything that you quoted supposed to be the rapture? Because if it is I can't see where it says anything about going off planet. Except for the return of Jesus of course. But other than that there's nothing in there that even suggests that we're going off planet

 

[Bill]

Rev 4:1
(1) After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Even though this was indeed a vision given to John of the coming tribulation period, which are things that must be hereafter, the words Come up hither, is representative of the rapture of the church.

And let us look at similarities, which I will color code.

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The events of hereafter, happen after the "Come up hither".

And concerning the tribulation period, even though there will be tribulation saints who get martyred, and become the church of that time, notice that the actual term "church", does not appear during the time of the tribulation period.

Please here me out carefully, do not add to what I said.

We see the word church, mentioned with the sevens churches:

Rev 3:22
(22) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

But within the verses that mention the great tribulation, that term is not there.

So besides the first 3 chapters of Revelations, the only time you see the word church, is when God is finished describing the 7 year trib event, which is followed by the millennial reign, and then eternity.

Here is the only verse after chapter 3.

Rev 22:16
(16) I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

"Even though this was indeed a vision given to John of the coming tribulation period, which are things that must be hereafter, the words Come up hither, is representative of the rapture of the church."

The passage that you are trying to use as a representation of the rapture is not talking about the multitudes. The angel is talking to John.

Many if not most people are having a real struggle with certain things in Revelations. They're not using the fullness of the scripture to understand it.

You can find in the Old Testament where it talks about the Horseman. And the directions that The Horseman go in, they go north, they go west and they go south. The key to this is you need to have a starting point. And that starting point is Jerusalem. In the scripture Jerusalem is referred to as "the apple of God's eye." And everything all centers around Jerusalem.

I can tell you this right now whether you wish to agree with me or not. There is no such thing as the rapture. And you'll see it for yourself in the not too distant future.

You are right that there are a number of different situations that refer to the great day of the Lord. One of those is the coming of Jesus the birth of Jesus, one of those is God's Great Grace that he is going to give all of mankind before the tribulation. The great grace is not the rapture it is something else.

And then the return of Jesus the great day of the Lord also is mentioned.

Just as I am going to be here so will you, the problem for all the churches out there that preach the rapture is that many of those churches will fall once the people realize that the Rapture is false.

In the Scripture it talks about a great Falling Away. This will happen once the Rapture is realized as being false and everyone is going into the tribulation. There will be a great Falling Away from the Christian churches. They may call themselves Christian but they will not be Christian churches. Preachers will tell you it's okay to take the mark of the beast. But I can tell you that anyone, ANYONE, who either takes the mark of the beast, or tells others to take the mark of the beast even though they themselves do not take it. They will all be going to Hell, as this sin is a sin against the Holy Spirit.

Many Christians who are in presently hardcore Christians, will fall. The predominant reason for the failure of their faith is that they have put more faith into the Rapture than they do into God.

 

[Gerbolski]

They that are alive and remain being caught up in the air as it says, is a rapture, and so were Elijah and Enoch taken up, but I know the Roman Catholic church does not believe in the rapture.

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It says we shall meet the Lord in the air, nothing is more clear than that.

 

[Gerbolski]

Incorruptible bodies

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Being caught up, and meeting the Lord in the air sure sounds like being caught up in the air.

Now I truly believe that the pre trib rapture is the right view, but nevertheless, whether it is would be the pre, mid or post, we need to follow Jesus.

And there will be a catching away were we meet him in the air.

And what will happen ?

1Co 15:51-52
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This is an event that has not happened yet, but will happen at the time of the trumpet sound, or the last trumpet, which in Thessalonians, when he comes to get his church, he comes with the trump of God.

1Co 15:53
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

What shall put on incorruption ?

1Co 15:44
(44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Our bodies.

Rom 8:23
(23) And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Right now we await the redemption of our bodies, which is very evident that when we die right now, that our bodies are not incorruptible, for they go in the grave.

So the catching away will result in the redemption of our bodies.

Mar 12:25
(25) For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Of course they who belong to Christ, upon death go to heaven, and we shall be as the angels, and at the rapture, which speaks of the resurrection, we shall have glorified bodies, which do not corrupt, and we will not be giving birth then, for we will be as the angels.

And at the second coming, the saints will come down with him and they shall already have incorruptible bodies.

Now If the rapture happens at the second coming, well it says that the dead in Christ rise first, which their souls and spirits are already in heaven, but at the time of the rapture, their bodies get joined to their spirits and souls, and turn into an incorruptible body, but also it says that the alive that remain get caught up with them, so the ones that remain alive and are in Christ, they get an incorruptible body.

So if all get (the saved) an incorruptible body at the second coming, which is the time of the fullness of the Gentiles and fullness of the Jews, then what about the people that form the nations and the nation of Israel during the time of the millennial reign which do not have an incorruptible body, and give birth to children ?

Because at the time of the second coming it says this:

2Th 1:7-8
(7) And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
(8) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

So at the second coming vengeance is taken on all them that know not God, so not one will remain, but the ones that do remain shall be saved, and go into the millennial reign.

So if all the saved that remain (the alive), get an incorruptible body at the second coming, then that would contradict, these next verses:

Isa 65:20
(20) There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Zec 8:5-6
(5) And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.
(6) Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the LORD of hosts.

Now every one that goes in the millennial reign, shall be saved people, but as time goes on, and people get born, some will later rebel, and it is very evident that they shall not have incorruptible bodies, for they shall grow old and shall eventually die.

But concerning the rapture, both the dead in Christ and the Alive in Christ get incorruptible bodies, but it is not so at the second coming.

So the rapture cannot be referring to the time of the second coming.

The only one that fits, all the scenarios, is pre-trib.

 

[Bill]

They that are alive and remain being caught up in the air as it says, is a rapture, and so were Elijah and Enoch taken up, but I know the Roman Catholic church does not believe in the rapture.

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It says we shall meet the Lord in the air, nothing is more clear than that.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

The Catholics believe that we will meet Jesus in the end when he returns. As you stated it says, we shall meet the Lord in the air. And that's in reference to the return of Jesus because we're going to MEET Him in the air.

That's a lot different than the concept of the Rapture where we're going to go up to heaven first.

So no you're right, the Catholics do not believe in the Rapture at all. And the Rapture is a false teaching you're right about that too. Because the only time that we're going to meet Jesus in the air is that the end of it all.

 

[Bill]

It won't matter how much I tried to tell you that the Rapture is a false teaching. But when the time comes and you see so many Christians leaving the churches to go to the One World Church or just leaving all together. You'll understand why, because Satan has seriously fooled all of you with the whole Rapture crap.

It's a complete delusion, the Rapture is nothing more than a lure to keep your mind away from God

 

[Gerbolski]

It won't matter how much I tried to tell you that the Rapture is a false teaching. But when the time comes and you see so many Christians leaving the churches to go to the One World Church or just leaving all together. You'll understand why, because Satan has seriously fooled all of you with the whole Rapture crap.

It's a complete delusion, the Rapture is nothing more than a lure to keep your mind away from God

Totally disagree. People are actually joining the one world religion right now through ecumenicalism.

All what the word rapture means is being caught up.

Roman Catholicism is leading the one world religion.

 

[Gerbolski]

Joh 14:3
(3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Gerbolski]

And the Rapture is a false teaching you're right about that too.

You must of did a misquote, because I believe that the rapture is biblical, and that we meet him in the air, which Christ comes and get us, and receives us unto himself, and we be were he is, which is in heaven, because he is in heaven right now.

John 14:3 shows these things, and when he comes he will come from heaven to get us, and we will be were he is, which is heaven.

 

[Gerbolski]

1Th 4:16-18
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Joh 14:3
(3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Sounds very similar to me, what it says in purple.

And this is actually suppose to be a comforting thing to believers, if you are not comforted by those words, well how come ?

For we are suppose to receive comfort from those words.

 

[Bill]

Totally disagree. People are actually joining the one world religion right now through ecumenicalism.

All what the word rapture means is being caught up.

Roman Catholicism is leading the one world religion.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

To me I'm not going to beat a dead horse, the rapture. I know what it is, and I know what it is not.

Unfortunately for the Catholics. The usurper who claims to be Pope is not our leader. In the Catholic Church for over a thousand years. The Cardinals were supposed to elect a leader through prayer and through the movement of the Holy Spirit.

Of Francis he was originally elected this way correctly, although his pride and his desire to go down his own path. Caused God to reject him. God the Father told me this a couple of years ago, that he had rejected Francis.

Now let's talk about Leo. The Cardinals never prayed or even sought the intersection of the Holy Spirit to lead them, as the Cardinals selected Leo to become the Pope. This is what God the Father told me about Leo.

Those in the Vatican, Even though they claim to be our leaders Are not They have gone down a path of evil.

What they are doing is not Catholic has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. They are promoting homosexuality immoral Behavior and the One World Church.

Those who are faithful Catholics who follow the catechism of the Catholic Church, are God's people. They are your brothers and sisters. You should pray for them to remain strong in the Lord. What is going on with us will also if not already, we'll be going on with the rest of the Christian world

I have been talking to a number of Bishops trying to get them to contact each other, because the Lord has told me that Leo is going to make an edict, that will demand that all Catholic priests as well as Bishops follow it or they can leave the church.

It's a little bit funny in a way because they will call it their Church when it isn't their Church. Those who are in the Vatican have left the Catholic Church to follow their own course.

But when the edict comes out, priests and Bishops will be hard pressed. Because on the one hand they will have what they know in their heart is the will of God, and on the other hand the comfort of having a parish and everything that goes with it.

You may say to yourself how difficult is that just follow the will of God. But you yourself will experience a very similar thing not too soon afterwards, when your preachers and your Bishops will all experience the same. Lose everything and follow the will of God or keep everything and walk away from God

 

[Bill]

You must of did a misquote, because I believe that the rapture is biblical, and that we meet him in the air, which Christ comes and get us, and receives us unto himself, and we be were he is, which is in heaven, because he is in heaven right now.

John 14:3 shows these things, and when he comes he will come from heaven to get us, and we will be were he is, which is heaven.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

You're right it is biblical when we're talking about the end and the return of Jesus where we will meet Jesus in the air. But everything else pre-tribulation post tribulation mid tribulation all that garbage it's just garbage

 

[KingJ]

I have never agreed with the whole concept that everybody is so stuck on, that only one day equals a thousand years.

1. The tribulation is exactly seven years.

Dan 9:24-27, Dan 12:7, Rev 11:2-3, Rev 12:6, Rev 13:5

Scripture	Time given
Daniel 9:27	One “week” = 7 years
Daniel 9:27	Middle of the week
Revelation 11–13	42 months
Revelation 11–12	1,260 days
Revelation 12	Time, times, half a time
Matthew 24	Confirms Daniel’s midpoint

2. The tribulation is at the very end of the sixth day and the seventh day that it ushers in is exactly a thousand years:.

Rev 20:1-6, Dan 9:24-2

Rev 20:6 the second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

3. The unknown date is not the start of the tribulation, it is the rapture.

Matt 24:36, Mark 13:32

Matt 24:36: But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

4. Following the biblical genealogies of man, places us at around the 6000 year mark today.

Masoretic Text (MT): This Hebrew text, the basis for most modern Protestant and Roman Catholic Bibles, places creation at approximately 4000 BCE, suggesting mankind is around 6,000 years old today. The period from creation to the Flood is calculated as 1,656 years in the MT.

-----------------------

IE, In order to believe the tribulation is an unknown date, either A. You need to ignore all scripture above or B. Assume nobody in heaven, except for God can count to 6 000 years.

 

[Bill]

1. The tribulation is exactly seven years.

Dan 9:24-27, Dan 12:7, Rev 11:2-3, Rev 12:6, Rev 13:5

Scripture	Time given
Daniel 9:27	One “week” = 7 years
Daniel 9:27	Middle of the week
Revelation 11–13	42 months
Revelation 11–12	1,260 days
Revelation 12	Time, times, half a time
Matthew 24	Confirms Daniel’s midpoint

2. The tribulation is at the very end of the sixth day and the seventh day that it ushers in is exactly a thousand years:.

Rev 20:1-6, Dan 9:24-2

Rev 20:6 the second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

3. The unknown date is not the start of the tribulation, it is the rapture.

Matt 24:36, Mark 13:32

Matt 24:36: But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

4. Following the biblical genealogies of man, places us at around the 6000 year mark today.

Masoretic Text (MT): This Hebrew text, the basis for most modern Protestant and Roman Catholic Bibles, places creation at approximately 4000 BCE, suggesting mankind is around 6,000 years old today. The period from creation to the Flood is calculated as 1,656 years in the MT.

-----------------------

IE, In order to believe the tribulation is an unknown date, either A. You need to ignore all scripture above or B. Assume nobody in heaven, except for God can count to 6 000 years.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

My friend, everyone can count 6,000 years. But the specific date is unknown to anyone except for God. Or if God chooses to reveal it to someone.

We do know that we are in the days of Revelation, it's not that we know the date it's because of the signs.

 

[Bill]

1. The tribulation is exactly seven years.

Dan 9:24-27, Dan 12:7, Rev 11:2-3, Rev 12:6, Rev 13:5

Scripture	Time given
Daniel 9:27	One “week” = 7 years
Daniel 9:27	Middle of the week
Revelation 11–13	42 months
Revelation 11–12	1,260 days
Revelation 12	Time, times, half a time
Matthew 24	Confirms Daniel’s midpoint

2. The tribulation is at the very end of the sixth day and the seventh day that it ushers in is exactly a thousand years:.

Rev 20:1-6, Dan 9:24-2

Rev 20:6 the second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

3. The unknown date is not the start of the tribulation, it is the rapture.

Matt 24:36, Mark 13:32

Matt 24:36: But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

4. Following the biblical genealogies of man, places us at around the 6000 year mark today.

Masoretic Text (MT): This Hebrew text, the basis for most modern Protestant and Roman Catholic Bibles, places creation at approximately 4000 BCE, suggesting mankind is around 6,000 years old today. The period from creation to the Flood is calculated as 1,656 years in the MT.

-----------------------

IE, In order to believe the tribulation is an unknown date, either A. You need to ignore all scripture above or B. Assume nobody in heaven, except for God can count to 6 000 years.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

Look we understand that part as far as the length of time. But this still does not show you the date and time

 

[KingJ]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

My friend, everyone can count 6,000 years. But the specific date is unknown to anyone except for God. Or if God chooses to reveal it to someone.

We do know that we are in the days of Revelation, it's not that we know the date it's because of the signs.

How is the date unknown? Adam and Eve were made on day 1. Anyone who saw that day just needs to count to 6 000 years.

Scripture tells us as literally as is possible, I even bolded it for you, the seventh day is 1 000 years exactly. Why would the other 6 not be?

Following genealogies of man, the Masoretic text puts us at about 6 000 years right now.

Exodus 20:9-11 states 'Six days you shall labor and do all your work' and we know that God worked six days when He made us.

----------------

Just because we do not know the date does not mean angels and those in heaven don't know the date. Unless you believe no angel, literally none, except perhaps the devil know the first date Adam and Eve were made. Should we amend Matt 24:36 to say that? Nobody knows the day and the hour except for God the Father and the ....devil and Adam and Eve.