Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is!

HI Bill, I moved your post in the rapture thread here for discussion.

@Bill said:

hmmm, idk about that, it says many will be DECEIVED so they will try to brandish it as really anything, the trump code, the god code, the buddha code, the whatever code. the free McChicken code. donut discount code lol
the goyslop code.
we will however see right through it, because we doubt anything they say or do.


if the scripture says otherwise in many other examples then its most likely that the odd one is to be read deeper into rather than taking it directly as written. anyhow, it is pointless to disagree with people or argue people who disagree, because we have each settled, you can give things to think of but it will probably not change so stop wasting time and prepare for whats coming, oh wait ... well i believe something is coming we must survive. i guess it is a quite important thing to get settled


offf thats a deadly curveball, guess they will be saved too then haha.

at least those of us who believe there are things coming, we must CEASE VANITY and work to prepare.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

Demons know exactly who Jesus is otherwise they would not recognize him when you say "in the name of Jesus".

If you say in the name of Bill or the name of Pauline, the Demons will look at you and laugh. Knowing full well that even though they are maybe Christians that they have no power in those names, it's only in the name of Jesus that every knee shall Bend as the scripture says. But even though the demons know exactly who Jesus is does not mean that they will be saved. Because saving doesn't come from the mind being saved comes from the heart.

This is why the once saved always saved does not wash. If a person receives Jesus as their lord and savior unless that person receives that into their heart, that person is still not saved even though he says it was his mouth. He may believe it even in his mind but if he does not accept Jesus in his heart then it is nothing
 
@Bill said:
May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

Demons know exactly who Jesus is otherwise they would not recognize him when you say "in the name of Jesus".

If you say in the name of Bill or the name of Pauline, the Demons will look at you and laugh. Knowing full well that even though they are maybe Christians that they have no power in those names, it's only in the name of Jesus that every knee shall Bend as the scripture says. But even though the demons know exactly who Jesus is does not mean that they will be saved. Because saving doesn't come from the mind being saved comes from the heart.

This is why the once saved always saved does not wash. If a person receives Jesus as their lord and savior unless that person receives that into their heart, that person is still not saved even though he says it was his mouth. He may believe it even in his mind but if he does not accept Jesus in his heart then it is nothing

Bill please re-read the OP of this thread and my post # 199 above to Joe where I deal with your point.

Suggesting that OSAS is false because demons believe and are not saved is evidence of A. having absolutely no clue what saving faith is and B. not even trying to grasp the OSAS position.
 
@Bill But even though the demons know exactly who Jesus is does not mean that they will be saved. Because saving doesn't come from the mind being saved comes from the heart.

Correct, but you are for some reason not grasping my point. Namely, you can only call Jesus Lord and believe He was raised from the dead (Rom 10:9) if your heart is right as the revelation of Jesus comes from above / the Holy Spirit after He judges your heart and mind.

Matt 16:16-17 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” 17;Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Jer 17:9-11 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? 10 “I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.”
 
Suggesting that OSAS is false because demons believe and are not saved is evidence of A. having absolutely no clue what saving faith is and B. not even trying to grasp the OSAS position.
no its evidence you can't rationalize Paul said its that easy, therefore paul must have meant something else.

he absolutely believed no one could utter the words "Jesus is Lord" without the power of the Holy Spirit. -that's what the greek litterally says, go read it.
 
no its evidence you can't rationalize Paul said its that easy, therefore paul must have meant something else.

he absolutely believed no one could utter the words "Jesus is Lord" without the power of the Holy Spirit. -that's what the greek litterally says, go read it.

Joe, you are now partially agreeing with me. I agree with the Greek and the point you made.

Perhaps you should be clearer on your disagreement with me. Better explain how James 2:19 is related to 1 Cor 12:3 and Rom 10:9.

If your only argument is that ''devils believe'' Jesus is Lord and therefore our ability to also 'believe' Jesus is Lord is meaningless....well that is easily debunked. There is a difference between humans and angels. Humans are not angels and angels are not humans. Angels do not have to live on earth with faith in God existing, faith in a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago being God of the universe and raised from the dead. Faith in there being an eternal heaven and hell. Angels were there when Jesus died and they have met God directly. For them 'faith' of any type is absolutely no accomplishment. But for a human it is. And for a Christian, if it is Rom 10:9 faith, it is a clear sign of being saved.

If you disagree with me, then please try be clear on why you do.
 
Bill please re-read the OP of this thread and my post # 199 above to Joe where I deal with your point.

Suggesting that OSAS is false because demons believe and are not saved is evidence of A. having absolutely no clue what saving faith is and B. not even trying to grasp the OSAS position.
May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I do not bother with trying to understand the one saved always saved philosophy for the same reason I don't bother to try understanding the Jehovah Witnesses or the Mormons because I know that they are also false teachings.

This is also true with a number of other false teachings like the pre-tribulation Rapture or any type of runaway from the world system with the exception of meeting Jesus after everything is over or unless death takes us first.

I also don't study Buddhism, Muslim teachings and all the other false teachings in the world. There's only one teaching and that is through the scripture and what Jesus teaches me through the Holy Spirit.
 
May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I do not bother with trying to understand the one saved always saved philosophy for the same reason I don't bother to try understanding the Jehovah Witnesses or the Mormons because I know that they are also false teachings.

This is also true with a number of other false teachings like the pre-tribulation Rapture or any type of runaway from the world system with the exception of meeting Jesus after everything is over or unless death takes us first.

I also don't study Buddhism, Muslim teachings and all the other false teachings in the world. There's only one teaching and that is through the scripture and what Jesus teaches me through the Holy Spirit.

High level, I agree with taking this perspective.

But, when you get into the nitty gritty of the topics you find that certain teaching / holding to certain beliefs taint God. Misrepresent Him. Pursuing the truth on Christian doctrine should be our top priority as properly representing God to the lost is our 'one' job 2 Cor 5:20.

Now on the two Christian items you mentioned. The following is relevant to you as a Catholic.

OSAS - This is mostly a non-issue for you as you teach a Purgatory. The A-Z of my argument with those who don't teach this is that they misrepresent God as unjust and partial. But Catholics don't as Purgatory is a place where a good Christian who served God his entire life can still make amends and will not wake up in eternal punishment as non-Catholic non-OSAS believers teach.

Pre-trib Rapture - This is one topic that many can be forgiven for not wanting to debate and properly analyse.

Any future event is vastly unknown. Christians have always endured hard times and God has always had to help us through it.

But, when you dig into the nitty gritty of personal theories and assumptions put forward, you start seeing a terrible misrepresentation of God and clear reading blunder of scripture.

But this is still not that important as whether there is a pre-trib rapture or not, we must always be ready to meet God. Each of us can die today. The same people who teach that there is no pre-trib rapture event also teach the need to be ready every day to meet God.
 
High level, I agree with taking this perspective.

But, when you get into the nitty gritty of the topics you find that certain teaching / holding to certain beliefs taint God. Misrepresent Him. Pursuing the truth on Christian doctrine should be our top priority as properly representing God to the lost is our 'one' job 2 Cor 5:20.

Now on the two Christian items you mentioned. The following is relevant to you as a Catholic.

OSAS - This is mostly a non-issue for you as you teach a Purgatory. The A-Z of my argument with those who don't teach this is that they misrepresent God as unjust and partial. But Catholics don't as Purgatory is a place where a good Christian who served God his entire life can still make amends and will not wake up in eternal punishment as non-Catholic non-OSAS believers teach.

Pre-trib Rapture - This is one topic that many can be forgiven for not wanting to debate and properly analyse.

Any future event is vastly unknown. Christians have always endured hard times and God has always had to help us through it.

But, when you dig into the nitty gritty of personal theories and assumptions put forward, you start seeing a terrible misrepresentation of God and clear reading blunder of scripture.

But this is still not that important as whether there is a pre-trib rapture or not, we must always be ready to meet God. Each of us can die today. The same people who teach that there is no pre-trib rapture event also teach the need to be ready every day to meet God.
May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

I realize my friend that I have a huge advantage on the stuff. But it's also a disadvantage as most here have no belief in the spiritual experiences i would love to talk about.

I have spiritually been to purgatory many times, not because i need to be there, but because others have asked me to help family members.
I can't tell you how many times i hear preachers saying "thank God it is real".

God loves us so much, more than we love eachother. Most churches are willing to throw eachother under the bus complaining and condemning eachother over mostly trivial things. Chuch on sunday only, baptizing full immersion, Adam having a belly button, the position of Mary the mother of Jesus, whether Jesus has brothers and sisters with Mary, and a whole slew of other ones.

The problem with the condemning and complaining against your brothers and sisters isn't about what is being complained about, it's about the condemning it's about the complaining. You see condemning your brothers and sisters is a sin in itself. When you or anyone condemns their brothers and sisters, condemning them that they're going to go to hell. That they themselves are saying that I am judging you because I'm making myself equal to God. Even though they don't really say that but that's what they're doing.

Now I'm not condemning you because you believe in the once saved always saved philosophy. I'm just stating the fact that you're wrong. But if you're so inclined to condemn others because of how they're thinking then you yourself are making a sin by doing it.

That's also the same for people that don't believe in the osas, that they cannot condemn those who believe in it they can only point out their opinion.

But there's something else that's also important here, even more important than whether a person believes in the osas or they don't believe in it. Is that something that's going to take a person to heaven. As far as the judgment on it goes we leave that in God's hands. But there's no real point in the argument either you into it or you're not. And it's really up to God to choose and reveal the truth to each person.

Like I said I have a bit of an advantage, as I experience angels, I hear them, I see them, I talk with them, I work with them. And I cannot deny anything that I have done spiritually. If I did that I would be calling God a liar. But I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you of my experiences because it is beyond the thinking of most. And I'm not here to blow people's minds away or to break the bending read as it speaks in Scripture.

Remember that Jesus himself stated, there's a lot of stuff that I would love to tell you but you're not ready for it now.

Many Christians are like plants inside of a greenhouse before they are ready to be planted in the woods or in the garden. Their faith is so weak.

I'm always encouraged by people even here on Talk Jesus when you hear of someone Hearing in Jesus speaking to them or maybe hearing something from an angel. But I'm going to tell you something that's really important it has to do with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
This is something I have stressed over the years. That those who have first received the gifts of the holy spirit need to exercise with them to get a deeper understanding of them. A person who first learns carpentry cannot expect to become an expert in carpentry overnight. Certainly there are some people that have a gift for carpentry, and a gift of comprehension of the Holy Spirit. But that is few and far between.

If you are baptized in the Holy Spirit, and I encourage everyone to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. ( and by the way they are two separate baptisms, I don't know why that's such a big thing these days they keep thinking that if they're baptized in the water that they're baptized in the spirit at the same time, and there are instances that that does occur. But that is rare. But you have to be baptized in the spirit and that is a separate baptism than being baptized with the water)

But if you are baptized in the Holy Spirit you need to work with it you need to learn to recognize the Whispering Wind of the Holy Spirit within you. You need to learn to recognize the discernment of the Holy Spirit, probably the most important gift there is out there. Without the gift of discernment you cannot determine if a preacher is really in the Lord or not. You will not be able to determine those who are trying to deceive you in the future or not. So I tell you to work with the gifts build them up inside of you that you will understand the many things that can be done. Don't limit yourself to laying on hands when it comes to Healing. If a person has spiritual sight and spiritual healing they can use the two together. There's no limit to the gifts of the Holy Spirit
 
Back
Top