Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[KingJ]

Now even though God does Justify the elect while they are enemies, ungodly, and unbelievers Rom 4:5,, its not for that reason He justifies them, no He justifies them while they're in that wicked state because He reckons them righteous still with the Gift of imputed righteousness . See even in a wicked state God has still so graciously made Christ to be unto them 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness/Justification, and sanctification, and redemption:28

You are reading “imputed righteousness” into people while they remain unbelieving, but Paul repeatedly connects justification to faith, not merely awareness of a justification that supposedly already existed (Romans 5:1; Gal. 2:16).

Romans 4:5 says God justifies the ungodly, agreed. But it does not say He justifies the ungodly apart from faith. In fact, the same context says righteousness is imputed “to him that believeth” (Romans 4:5). You are separating justification from faith in a way Paul never does.

 

[KingJ]

Now in what sense is Justification by Faith necessary ? Its very necessary in that Faith gives Gods elect a conscience knowledge of of their Justification before God. Its similar as it was said of Johns ministry Luke 1:77

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,28

Now in what sense is Justification by Faith necessary ? Its necessary in order to give the elect peace and joy and hope through believing Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

You have changed “justified by faith” into “informed by faith that you were already justified,” but Paul does not say that.

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God” (Romans 5:1). Paul presents faith as the God-ordained means through which justification is received, not merely discovered.

Under your system, people are fully justified while condemned, children of wrath, and unbelieving. Faith merely informs them of it. The apostles never present justification that way.

 

[KingJ]

Since Christs blood and righteousness actually saves, you have detracted from it by saying they are merely sufficient to save. Therefore you must contribute the efficient cause to something other than the blood and righteousness of Christ.

You are creating a false dilemma. Christ’s blood and righteousness are both completely sufficient and the sole grounds of salvation. Faith contributes no merit whatsoever.

Scripture does not present faith as an additional saving work, but as the God-ordained means by which we receive Christ and what He accomplished (Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8–9).

You are confusing the basis of salvation with the means of receiving it. Christ saves. Faith does not compete with Christ; faith receives Christ.

 

[KingJ]

Ive given many facts in this thread and no one has refuted them including you

Please share the facts you have provided that you feel cannot be refuted.

 

[KingJ]

Duplicate

 

[Brightfame52]

You are reading “imputed righteousness” into people while they remain unbelieving,

You betcha, if Christ died for their sins.

 

[Brightfame52]

You have changed “justified by faith” into “informed by faith that you were already justified,”

Yes the elect whom Christ died for was Justified by His blood way before they are given Faith to receive the knowledge of it.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are creating a false dilemma. Christ’s blood and righteousness are both completely sufficient and the sole grounds of salvation. Faith contributes no merit whatsoever.

There you again, saying Christ blood and righteousness is merely a sufficient grounds for Justification, depriving them being the efficacious cause of Justification. God given Faith acknowledges the blood and righteousness of Christ as the efficacious cause of their Justification. Look up the difference between a sufficient cause and a efficacious cause.. What do you teach as the efficacious cause ?

 

[Brightfame52]

Please share the facts you have provided that you feel cannot be refuted.

I have already shared them, beginning at the op and will continue to share them

 

[KingJ]

There you again, saying Christ blood and righteousness is merely a sufficient grounds for Justification, depriving them being the efficacious cause of Justification. God given Faith acknowledges the blood and righteousness of Christ as the efficacious cause of their Justification. Look up the difference between a sufficient cause and a efficacious cause.. What do you teach as the efficacious cause ?

You are arguing against something I never said. I never denied Christ’s blood and righteousness are the efficacious cause of justification. Christ alone is the sole efficacious cause and grounds of salvation.

My point is that Scripture still says justification is “by faith” (Romans 5:1), not because faith adds merit or becomes a second cause, but because faith is the God-ordained means by which we receive Christ and what He accomplished.

You keep treating faith as competition to Christ. Scripture never does.

 

[KingJ]

Yes the elect whom Christ died for was Justified by His blood way before they are given Faith to receive the knowledge of it.

You are asserting people are justified before faith, while Paul repeatedly connects justification to faith itself, not merely awareness of justification (Romans 3:28; 5:1; Gal. 2:16).

Under your system, people are fully justified while still “condemned already” (John 3:18), “children of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3), and unbelieving. Faith merely informs them of it afterward. The apostles never present justification that way.

Christ’s blood is the sole basis of justification. Faith contributes no merit. But Scripture still presents faith as the God-ordained means by which justification is received, not merely discovered.

 

[KingJ]

You betcha, if Christ died for their sins.

Sick belief and teaching. You ought to be ashamed of yourself and terrified of judgement day where you will need to explain yourself to God.

 

[KingJ]

I have already shared them, beginning at the op and will continue to share them

Well your recent posts hold no water. So I won't waste my time trying to find something of substance.

 

[Brightfame52]

Are men Justified before God b4 Faith and while ungodly? The answer is yes insofar men are elect of God while in unbelief and ungodly. Paul writes of the elect Rom 8:33

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 28

 

[Brightfame52]

You are arguing against something I never said.

Yet its reasonably implied, thats good enough.

 

[Brightfame52]

I never denied Christ’s blood and righteousness are the efficacious cause of justification.

You may as well, you dont believe they alone Justified them He died for duh

Christ alone is the sole efficacious cause and grounds of salvation.

You dont believe that, because you believe there are people He died for that will end up condemned into hell, dont you

My point is that Scripture still says justification is “by faith” (Romans 5:1),

Yeah it is by Faith after they were previously Justified alone by Christ death and blood, so your point is erronous

not because faith adds merit or becomes a second cause, but because faith is the God-ordained means by which we receive Christ and what He accomplished.

He accomplished Justification by His Blood alone, that's what Faith receives and believes., but you dont believe that, so you dont have true Faith in Christ

You keep treating faith as competition to Christ. Scripture never does.

No you do that, Faith is given once after a person has already been Justified by Christs blood so they can know it and believe in Christ for it.

 

[Brightfame52]

You are asserting people are justified before faith,

They are by Christs Blood Rom 5:9 which you deny

 

[Brightfame52]

Sick belief and teaching. You ought to be ashamed of yourself and terrified of judgement day where you will need to explain yourself to God.

I will see you at the Judgment, lets hope God grants you repentance b4 that day.

 

[Brightfame52]

Well your recent posts hold no water. So I won't waste my time trying to find something of substance.

See ya at the Judgment friend

 

[Brightfame52]

If men are justified before God by their faith and or repentance, then they are justified by conditions, or law or works, and then so its by their merit before God they are justified in His sight.29