Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[Brightfame52]

Now who is it that God Justifies ? Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

He Justifieth His Elect. Not everyone without exception, but Justification by the God of the Bible is reserved for only a elect people.

Jer 50:20

In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

Pardon is synonymous with Justification and reserve has to do with a remnant as in a remnant according to election f grace Rom 11:4-5

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

 

[Brightfame52]

Now even though God will only justify His Elect, yet He does it while they themselves are most ungodly . He is Justified before he is made a holy believer, but while ungodly, and dead in sin Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Eph 2:1,3

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 34

 

[KingJ]

Yep I explained to you why from scripture.

I know what it says. He speaking to the elect/chosen. Look at 1 Cor 1:

24 ;But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 ;For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 ;But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 ;And base things of the world, and things which are despisedn, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:


Christ was made sin for them and died for them b4 faith. You act like faith died for folks sins

Conversion and Justification are different things. Yes the elect when converted find out they were already Justified by the cross/blood back at 33 ad/Calvary

Christ's death is the basis of justification, but Scripture consistently teaches that justification is received through faith, not years before faith.

Romans 5:1 says, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God."

None of the passages you cited say the elect were already justified at Calvary and only discovered it later.

That remains an inference, not an explicit teaching of Scripture.

 

[KingJ]

Tell me about it

You havent proven that

I agree with those scriptures

I'm struggling to understand how your view reconciles with Romans 2:11 and Acts 10:34.

If God unconditionally chooses some individuals for salvation while passing over others before they are born, on what basis is He "no respecter of persons"?

You agree that God is impartial, yet your inference seems to require that He grants saving grace to some while withholding it from others with no opportunity for response. That is not impartial but partial. And partiality by a Creator God would imply to all that He is monstrously evil.

 

[KingJ]

Pay close attention to Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now the object of the believers Faith, is He God that Justifieth the ungodly ! Now if ungodly, then of course unbelievers. 34

Romans 4:5 does not say God justifies people while they remain unbelievers.

It says, "to him that believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly."

The person being described is an ungodly person who believes, not an unbeliever who has already been justified.

You are assuming that "ungodly" means "unbelieving," but Paul never makes that equation.

The verse teaches that God justifies sinners who believe, not that He justifies unbelievers before they believe.

 

[KingJ]

Now who is it that God Justifies ? Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

He Justifieth His Elect. Not everyone without exception, but Justification by the God of the Bible is reserved for only a elect people.

Jer 50:20

In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

Pardon is synonymous with Justification and reserve has to do with a remnant as in a remnant according to election f grace Rom 11:4-5

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 8:33 says that God's elect are justified. It does not say that only the elect can be justified, nor does it say they were justified before faith.

That is the difference between what the passage states and what you infer from it.

Likewise, Jeremiah 50:20 concerns God's promised restoration and pardon of Israel and Judah. Romans 11 speaks of a remnant within Israel.

Neither passage teaches that Christ died only for a predetermined group or that people are justified while still unbelieving.

You are combining several passages and adding conclusions that none of them explicitly make.

 

[KingJ]

Now even though God will only justify His Elect, yet He does it while they themselves are most ungodly . He is Justified before he is made a holy believer, but while ungodly, and dead in sin Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Eph 2:1,3

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 34

You are conflating two different truths.

Yes, people are ungodly, dead in sin, and children of wrath before conversion (Ephesians 2:1-3). We agree on that.

What Romans 4:5 says is that God justifies the ungodly person who believes.

The verse does not say God justifies people while they remain unbelieving, nor does it say they were already justified before faith.

You keep inserting "before faith" into passages that never state it.

In fact, Paul explicitly says, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God" (Romans 5:1).

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ's death is the basis of justification,

Wrong, it actually Justified them He died for, and reconciled them to God

Romans 5:1 says, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God."

Which is also true

None of the passages you cited say the elect were already justified at Calvary and only discovered it later.

Thats implied

That remains an inference, not an explicit teaching of Scripture.

An inference based upon other scripture comparisons.

 

[Brightfame52]

I'm struggling to understand how your view reconciles with Romans 2:11 and Acts 10:34.

Thats your struggle, not mine

If God unconditionally chooses some individuals for salvation while passing over others before they are born, on what basis is He "no respecter of persons"?

Election is based on Grace, all deserve eternal damnation. There is nothing in any man or about any man that God shows regard for to save him, we are all totally depraved See Rom 3:9ff

 

[Brightfame52]

Romans 4:5 does not say God justifies people while they remain unbelievers.

While they are ungodly, same thing.

The person being described is an ungodly person who believes, not an unbeliever who has already been justified.

The person believed God Justified him while ungodly, which God did, thats why he reconciled them while enemies Rom 5:10

You are assuming that "ungodly" means "unbelieving," but Paul never makes that equation.

It does, even worse. The word ungodly asebēs: destitute of reverential awe towards God, [contemning]1 God, impious
ἀσεβής asebḗs, as-eb-ace'; from G1 (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of G4576; irreverent, i.e. (by extension) impious or wicked:—ungodly (man).https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g765/kjv/tr/0-1/

 

[Brightfame52]

Romans 8:33 says that God's elect are justified. It does not say that only the elect can be justified, nor does it say they were justified before faith.

God Justifieth His Elect by Christs death Vs 34

Likewise, Jeremiah 50:20 concerns God's promised restoration and pardon of Israel and Judah. Romans 11 speaks of a remnant within Israel.

Its the Church, same people under different administrations, that's a different subject which I can see now you are clueless about.

Gods Justification in the Lord Jesus Christ was promised to only one people Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Seed of Israel is Gods elect both of jews and Gentiles, the Church

You are combining several passages and adding conclusions that none of them explicitly make.

Doesn't have to explicitly state all the time, just be substantiated by other scripture

 

[Brightfame52]

You are conflating two different truths.

By the grace of God Im being skillful with scripture

Yes, people are ungodly, dead in sin, and children of wrath before conversion (Ephesians 2:1-3). We agree on that.

okay

What Romans 4:5 says is that God justifies the ungodly person who believes.

We been over this already, see past notes, plus commentary by Gill I provided

You keep inserting "before faith" into passages that never state it.

Its implied, one is ungodly b4 Faith, after belief one is no longer in a ungodly condition, dont forget that

In fact, Paul explicitly says, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God" (Romans 5:1).

Thats true as well God given Faith receives the revelation that one has been Justified by Christ. Faith provides the evidence Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen
That brings peace into the mind Rom 15 13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

May God be pleased to open up your eyes of understanding.