KingJ said:

Its quite funny that in my post I said you were dancing and then in your reply, you further dance..



Answer the above post. Until you do, discussion with you is circular.

It's like trying to discuss semi - complex mathematical equations with someone who cannot yet accept that 1 + 1 = 2.

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And until you accept that you may ask questions in whatever form you choose but those you ask the questions to may answer in whatever form they choose then you havent really grasped the concept of a discussion forum.

And did you check the OP, you do understand that this discussion is not about Homosexuality being a sin but is about the condemnation of sin in general.

Hannah1 said:

I think it is clear as day if we have plenty, we are required to share it, if we have more than enough to make us comfortable. That is clear as day. And God does not separate one sin worse than another. Sin is sin.

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Hi Hannah, welcome to the forums, if you havent already figured it out for yourself, which you probably have, youll understand that "KingJ" ,along with some others on this forum have a pretty unique way of communicating, its just something you get used to.

I would just say in reply to your post that i think we are called on to do more than just share if we are comfortable, i think Christs commandment to "deny ourselves and take up our Cross daily" is a call to self sacrifice and denial in all aspects of our lives, i dont believe that we can be "comfortable" in this world and still profess, to be a follower of Christ in a world where hundreds of millions live in abject poverty and 16,000 young children die from hunger and disease every day, Christs call to love your neighbour as yourself and treat others as youd want to be treated negates any notion of "comfort" that we may like to install in our lives. Its not easy to live a life of self denial and sacrifice in the name of love, i struggle with it every day, but if our professed faith is to mean anything, then as in Matthew 25 vs31-46, The Sheep and the goats, it must encompass the Love and Compassion we show to those in need.

KingJ said:

Where did Christ ever say that the mere possession of riches condemns a person to hell? (The Terror of Standing Before God as a False Teacher)

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Did you not read my reply in #73, OK heres the relevant parts again,
"Again lets see what Christ actually said in Luke 16 and not your interpretation of it, so heres the text " Luke 16: 19-31 "
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."... So why was the rich man condemned to Hell, the answer is in verse 25 " But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.", he was condemned for being Rich, for living a wealthy. comfortable life, and Lazarus was saved for living a life of suffering and poverty, or again as Christ said in luke 6:20 "Blessed are you poor, for yours is the Kingdom of Heaven" and Luke 6:24 "Woe to you that are rich for you have received your consolation",

and then we have
"Lets just see what Christ said about the rich young ruler shall we, not your interpretation of it, Ok Matthew 19:16-30 "
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what good deed should I do to have eternal life?”
17 Jesus asked him, “Why ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you want to get into that life, you must keep the commandments.”18 The young man asked him, “Which ones?”Jesus said, “‘You must not murder, you must not commit adultery, you must not steal, you must not give false testimony,19 honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘you must love your neighbor as yourself.
20 The young man told him, “I have kept all of these What do I still lack?”21 Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell what you own and give the money to the destitute, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come back and follow me.” 22 But when the young man heard this statement he went away sad, because he had many possessions.23 Then Jesus told his disciples, “I tell all of you with certainty, it will be hard for a rich person to get into the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God.” Christ is not talking of "idols", his statement is clear and reiterated in the other Gospels, "It is easier for a CAMEL TO PASS THROUGH THE EYE OF A NEEDLE THAN A RICH MAN ENTER HEAVEN" The warning is to the Rich, as already stated, the very fact of storing up treasure on Earth means your Heart is with your treasure and not God, YOU CANNOT SERVE GOD AND MONEY."

And in Luke 1 53, the Magnificat, Mary says, "He hath filled the hungry with good things, but the rich he has sent empty away", i've already quoted Luke 6:24 " Woe to you who are Rich for you have received your consolation" and the story of Zacchaeus fits into Christs teaching in that Salvation was only pronounced AFTER HE HAD GIVEN AWAY HIS WEALTH.

Is it really so hard to see that their is an incompatibility in Christs teachings of Wealth and Faith and that storing up Treasure in heaven is equated with giving away your wealth on Earth, for you cannot serve two masters, YOU CANNOT SERVE GOD AND MONEY. Matthew 6: 19-24 and you cannot profess "to love your neighbour as yourself" and "treat others as you'd want to be treated" while you live in wealth and comfort and they suffer and die in Poverty and Oppression.

Rad said:

And until you accept that you may ask questions in whatever form you choose but those you ask the questions to may answer in whatever form they choose then you havent really grasped the concept of a discussion forum.

And did you check the OP, you do understand that this discussion is not about Homosexuality being a sin but is about the condemnation of sin in general.

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Rad, of course you're free to answer however you choose. Equally, I'm free to point out when you haven't answered the question that was asked.

The reason I asked those questions is because they establish foundational points that directly affect the discussion. If we cannot agree on whether God inspired Leviticus 20:13, whether God changes His mind, whether Jesus taught degrees of sin, or whether God is impartial and just, then we have no common foundation from which to discuss the condemnation of sin.

Until those are answered, we're not moving forward; we're just moving sideways.

-----------------------

In addition, if you continue making serious doctrinal claims without supporting them from Scripture, I may report the matter to the admin.

You were specifically asked to support your statement in post #78. If you are going to make claims, then the burden is on you to provide biblical support for them. This is a Christian discussion forum and you are in a bible study section.

Rad said:

Did you not read my reply in #73, OK heres the relevant parts again,
"Again lets see what Christ actually said in Luke 16 and not your interpretation of it, so heres the text " Luke 16: 19-31 "
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."... So why was the rich man condemned to Hell, the answer is in verse 25 " But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.", he was condemned for being Rich, for living a wealthy. comfortable life, and Lazarus was saved for living a life of suffering and poverty, or again as Christ said in luke 6:20 "Blessed are you poor, for yours is the Kingdom of Heaven" and Luke 6:24 "Woe to you that are rich for you have received your consolation",

and then we have
"Lets just see what Christ said about the rich young ruler shall we, not your interpretation of it, Ok Matthew 19:16-30 "
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what good deed should I do to have eternal life?”
17 Jesus asked him, “Why ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you want to get into that life, you must keep the commandments.”18 The young man asked him, “Which ones?”Jesus said, “‘You must not murder, you must not commit adultery, you must not steal, you must not give false testimony,19 honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘you must love your neighbor as yourself.
20 The young man told him, “I have kept all of these What do I still lack?”21 Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell what you own and give the money to the destitute, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come back and follow me.” 22 But when the young man heard this statement he went away sad, because he had many possessions.23 Then Jesus told his disciples, “I tell all of you with certainty, it will be hard for a rich person to get into the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to get into the kingdom of God.” Christ is not talking of "idols", his statement is clear and reiterated in the other Gospels, "It is easier for a CAMEL TO PASS THROUGH THE EYE OF A NEEDLE THAN A RICH MAN ENTER HEAVEN" The warning is to the Rich, as already stated, the very fact of storing up treasure on Earth means your Heart is with your treasure and not God, YOU CANNOT SERVE GOD AND MONEY."

And in Luke 1 53, the Magnificat, Mary says, "He hath filled the hungry with good things, but the rich he has sent empty away", i've already quoted Luke 6:24 " Woe to you who are Rich for you have received your consolation" and the story of Zacchaeus fits into Christs teaching in that Salvation was only pronounced AFTER HE HAD GIVEN AWAY HIS WEALTH.

Is it really so hard to see that their is an incompatibility in Christs teachings of Wealth and Faith and that storing up Treasure in heaven is equated with giving away your wealth on Earth, for you cannot serve two masters, YOU CANNOT SERVE GOD AND MONEY. Matthew 6: 19-24 and you cannot profess "to love your neighbour as yourself" and "treat others as you'd want to be treated" while you live in wealth and comfort and they suffer and die in Poverty and Oppression.

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Rad, you've quoted several passages warning about the dangers of wealth, but you still haven't answered the question I asked.

Your claim was not that wealth is spiritually dangerous, nor that some rich people trust in riches, nor that wealth can become an idol.

Your claim was: "The mere possession of riches condemns the possessor to hell."

Where does Christ say that?

Not where does Christ warn the rich.

Not where does Christ say riches can be a stumbling block.

Not where does Christ say you cannot serve God and money.

Where does Christ say that the mere possession of wealth is sufficient to damn a person?

Because if your interpretation is correct, then Abraham, Job, David, Joseph of Arimathea, and others must all be condemned simply for being wealthy.

The rich young ruler was not condemned because he possessed wealth. He was exposed because he loved his wealth more than Christ.

Likewise, the rich man in Luke 16 is never said to be in hell merely because he was rich. The passage presents a man who lived in luxury while showing no compassion to the suffering man at his gate.

You're reading "rich people can be condemned" as "all rich people are condemned."

So once again, can you provide a verse where Christ says that merely possessing riches condemns a person to hell?

Rad said:

And until you accept that you may ask questions in whatever form you choose but those you ask the questions to may answer in whatever form they choose then you havent really grasped the concept of a discussion forum.

And did you check the OP, you do understand that this discussion is not about Homosexuality being a sin but is about the condemnation of sin in general.

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I have seen many that react negatively when asking questions taught that it is a sign of weakness or weak faith. Nothing could be more wrong

Rad said:

Hi Hannah, welcome to the forums, if you havent already figured it out for yourself, which you probably have, youll understand that "KingJ" ,along with some others on this forum have a pretty unique way of communicating, its just something you get used to.

I would just say in reply to your post that i think we are called on to do more than just share if we are comfortable, i think Christs commandment to "deny ourselves and take up our Cross daily" is a call to self sacrifice and denial in all aspects of our lives, i dont believe that we can be "comfortable" in this world and still profess, to be a follower of Christ in a world where hundreds of millions live in abject poverty and 16,000 young children die from hunger and disease every day, Christs call to love your neighbour as yourself and treat others as youd want to be treated negates any notion of "comfort" that we may like to install in our lives. Its not easy to live a life of self denial and sacrifice in the name of love, i struggle with it every day, but if our professed faith is to mean anything, then as in Matthew 25 vs31-46, The Sheep and the goats, it must encompass the Love and Compassion we show to those in need.

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We definitely have to do what we can, everyone, if that is little or more. It is the heart that matters, that Jesus pointed out with the woman who only had one denar.

KingJ said:

Rad, you've quoted several passages warning about the dangers of wealth, but you still haven't answered the question I asked.

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I have answered it in post #83, but i'll endeavour to answer it again.

KingJ said:

Your claim was not that wealth is spiritually dangerous, nor that some rich people trust in riches, nor that wealth can become an idol.

Your claim was: "The mere possession of riches condemns the possessor to hell."

Where does Christ say that?

Not where does Christ warn the rich.

Not where does Christ say riches can be a stumbling block.

Not where does Christ say you cannot serve God and money.

Where does Christ say that the mere possession of wealth is sufficient to damn a person?

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OK , i'll try again, lets look at Mark 10:17-27, because thats where Christ dispels the myth that its not wealth that condemns but those that "trust in wealth" that condemns, heres the text, "
17And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

the verses i'm going to concentrate on are 23,24,25, in verse 23 Christ says " How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the Kingdom of God, " not some, or a few, but "they that have riches", which encompasses ALL rich people, then in verse 24 Christ says , "Children, how hard it is for those that TRUST IN RICHES to enter the Kingdom of God", which is followed up with "Its easier for a Camel to pass through the Eye of a Needle than a Rich man enter the Kingdom of God", Christ equates "THOSE THAT TRUST IN RICHES" in verse 24 with " A RICH MAN" in verse 25, its not the supposed attitude or our perceived relationship with our riches that is the issue, but the mere possession of them that will bar entry into Heaven, this is also illustrated in Matthew 6:19-24, where Christ says that "Where your treasure is your heart will be also", "you cannot serve God and money", now if your Heart is not with God and you arent serving him, where do you think youre going to end up?. Likewise, if its impossible for a Rich man to enter Heaven, where do you think the Rich go?.

The condemnation of the Rich to Hell was graphically illustrated in Luke 16:20-31, the story of Lazarus and the rich man, heres the text

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

You seem somewhat confused as to why the Rich man was sent to Hell, but the answer is clear and its in Verse 25 where Abraham/Christ says, " "Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus Evil things, but now he is comforted and thou art tormented". The Rich mans lack of compassion had nothing to do with it, it was purely the fact that "in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things" the fact that he was living in wealth and comfort is enough to condemn him to Hell. This is also re-iterated earlier in lukes version of the Sermon on the mount in Luke 6: 20-25, which condemns the Rich and the comfortable ,and exalts the poor and suffering, Heres the text, Luke 6: 20-24

20And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

21Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

22&Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

23&Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

24&But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

25&Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

The poor are blessed and promised the Kingdom of heaven, The rich are condemned for they have received their consolation, which the story of The Rich man and Lazarus further elaborates. The rich man is condemned because he has had his good things in this life and the poor man goes to heaven because in this life he received Evil things. Can you not see the pattern?. The Rich are condemned to hell, the poor are exalted to heaven.

The story of Zacchaeus further illustrates this principle, Zacchaeus , a rich man, understands that his former wealth is incompatible with his newly professed faith , and his action in giving that wealth away to those in need and those he had wronged , "stores up Treasure in heaven" and causes Christ to proclaim " This day has Salvation come to this house". The rich young ruler could not give his Earthly riches away to the poor, even when Christ said by so doing he would store up Treasure in heaven, and so was condemned, Zacchaeus gave his Earthly Treasure away, stored up Heavenly Treasure by so doing and was proclaimed "saved". The rich young ruler ,kept his Earthly treasure, did not serve God by so doing and was sadly condemned by Christ.

And in Mark 4: 14-20 Christ explains the parable of the Sower, heres the text.
14The sower soweth the word.
15And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17&And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18&And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19&And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
20&nAnd these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

in verse 19 Christ talks of the "Deceitfulness of Riches,...... choke the word and it becometh unfruitful", what do you think will happen to those that are "Unfruitful".?

KingJ said:

Because if your interpretation is correct, then Abraham, Job, David, Joseph of Arimathea, and others must all be condemned simply for being wealthy.

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You well know that Abraham,Job and David lived under OT Covenant, where wealth and riches were not condemned and could be seen as a sign of favour from God. Joseph of Arimathaea, who is described in Matthew 27:57 as a "rich man" did live under the New Covenant of Christ. But its not up to us to question the actions of God, if God chose to use Joseph in whatever way he did, if God chose to save Joseph despite him being rich, then thats up to God, our perceived notions of justice do not apply to God who may do as he wishes. Or do do you not accept that, do you believe God should be constrained by the Commandments he sets down for us, because if you do then i think you need to re-evaluate your relationship with him.

KingJ said:

The rich young ruler was not condemned because he possessed wealth. He was exposed because he loved his wealth more than Christ.

Likewise, the rich man in Luke 16 is never said to be in hell merely because he was rich. The passage presents a man who lived in luxury while showing no compassion to the suffering man at his gate.

You're reading "rich people can be condemned" as "all rich people are condemned."

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No Christ doesnt say "Rich people CAN be condemned," he says "the Rich are Condemned"' Or can you tell me where in any of the above Gospel Texts Christ talks of "some of the rich", or of a "few of the rich", he says "THE RICH", that means ALL of the rich, excepting those that God chooses to save despite their riches, for as Christ said " with God everything is possible".

KingJ said:

So once again, can you provide a verse where Christ says that merely possessing riches condemns a person to hell?

Click to expand...

Please see above.

Rad said:

I have answered it in post #83, but i'll endeavour to answer it again.

OK , i'll try again, lets look at Mark 10:17-27, because thats where Christ dispels the myth that its not wealth that condemns but those that "trust in wealth" that condemns, heres the text, "
17And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

the verses i'm going to concentrate on are 23,24,25, in verse 23 Christ says " How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the Kingdom of God, " not some, or a few, but "they that have riches", which encompasses ALL rich people, then in verse 24 Christ says , "Children, how hard it is for those that TRUST IN RICHES to enter the Kingdom of God", which is followed up with "Its easier for a Camel to pass through the Eye of a Needle than a Rich man enter the Kingdom of God", Christ equates "THOSE THAT TRUST IN RICHES" in verse 24 with " A RICH MAN" in verse 25, its not the supposed attitude or our perceived relationship with our riches that is the issue, but the mere possession of them that will bar entry into Heaven, this is also illustrated in Matthew 6:19-24, where Christ says that "Where your treasure is your heart will be also", "you cannot serve God and money", now if your Heart is not with God and you arent serving him, where do you think youre going to end up?. Likewise, if its impossible for a Rich man to enter Heaven, where do you think the Rich go?.

The condemnation of the Rich to Hell was graphically illustrated in Luke 16:20-31, the story of Lazarus and the rich man, heres the text

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

You seem somewhat confused as to why the Rich man was sent to Hell, but the answer is clear and its in Verse 25 where Abraham/Christ says, " "Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus Evil things, but now he is comforted and thou art tormented". The Rich mans lack of compassion had nothing to do with it, it was purely the fact that "in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things" the fact that he was living in wealth and comfort is enough to condemn him to Hell. This is also re-iterated earlier in lukes version of the Sermon on the mount in Luke 6: 20-25, which condemns the Rich and the comfortable ,and exalts the poor and suffering, Heres the text, Luke 6: 20-24

20And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

21Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

22&Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

23&Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

24&But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

25&Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

The poor are blessed and promised the Kingdom of heaven, The rich are condemned for they have received their consolation, which the story of The Rich man and Lazarus further elaborates. The rich man is condemned because he has had his good things in this life and the poor man goes to heaven because in this life he received Evil things. Can you not see the pattern?. The Rich are condemned to hell, the poor are exalted to heaven.

The story of Zacchaeus further illustrates this principle, Zacchaeus , a rich man, understands that his former wealth is incompatible with his newly professed faith , and his action in giving that wealth away to those in need and those he had wronged , "stores up Treasure in heaven" and causes Christ to proclaim " This day has Salvation come to this house". The rich young ruler could not give his Earthly riches away to the poor, even when Christ said by so doing he would store up Treasure in heaven, and so was condemned, Zacchaeus gave his Earthly Treasure away, stored up Heavenly Treasure by so doing and was proclaimed "saved". The rich young ruler ,kept his Earthly treasure, did not serve God by so doing and was sadly condemned by Christ.

And in Mark 4: 14-20 Christ explains the parable of the Sower, heres the text.
14The sower soweth the word.
15And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
16And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
17&And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
18&And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19&And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
20&nAnd these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

in verse 19 Christ talks of the "Deceitfulness of Riches,...... choke the word and it becometh unfruitful", what do you think will happen to those that are "Unfruitful".?

You well know that Abraham,Job and David lived under OT Covenant, where wealth and riches were not condemned and could be seen as a sign of favour from God. Joseph of Arimathaea, who is described in Matthew 27:57 as a "rich man" did live under the New Covenant of Christ. But its not up to us to question the actions of God, if God chose to use Joseph in whatever way he did, if God chose to save Joseph despite him being rich, then thats up to God, our perceived notions of justice do not apply to God who may do as he wishes. Or do do you not accept that, do you believe God should be constrained by the Commandments he sets down for us, because if you do then i think you need to re-evaluate your relationship with him.

No Christ doesnt say "Rich people CAN be condemned," he says "the Rich are Condemned"' Or can you tell me where in any of the above Gospel Texts Christ talks of "some of the rich", or of a "few of the rich", he says "THE RICH", that means ALL of the rich, excepting those that God chooses to save despite their riches, for as Christ said " with God everything is possible".

Please see above.

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Rad, you've unintentionally undermined your own argument.

Your claim was that the mere possession of riches condemns the possessor to hell.

Yet later you say of Joseph of Arimathea: "If God chose to save Joseph despite him being rich, then that's up to God."

But if the mere possession of riches condemns a person to hell, then there can be no exceptions. The moment you allow for a rich man being saved while rich, you've conceded that wealth itself is not the condemning factor.

Furthermore, Mark 10:24 does not help your case. Jesus explains the issue by saying: "How hard it is for them that trust in riches to enter the kingdom of God."

Christ identifies the problem as trust in riches, not mere possession of riches.

Likewise, in Luke 16, neither Abraham nor Jesus says, "This man is in hell because he was rich." Those words simply do not appear in the passage. That is your interpretation of the passage, not the passage itself.

You have quoted many warnings about wealth, and I agree that wealth can be spiritually dangerous. But a warning about wealth is not the same thing as a declaration that every wealthy person is damned.

So I will ask again:

Where does Christ explicitly say that the mere possession of riches condemns a person to hell?

Richard Aberdeen said:

Jesus says, "Judge not, that you be not judged" Matthew 7:1. As noted, we also find this in Romans, where Paul writes, "Therefore you are inexcusable, O one, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things" Romans 2:1.

"Judge" in this sense, does not apply to a legal judge. Nor does it mean that we shouldn't try to discern what is good for us from what is not in our best interest, nor does it mean that we can't strongly disagree with someone else concerning their religious, political, social or other views.

What "judge" does mean in this sense, is that we should not condemn another human being for any reason, either for their religious, political, social or other views, nor for their nationality, ethnicity, perceived sexual orientation, skin coloration, social or economic status, perceived lack of intelligence, perceived lack of social grace, stature, perceived lack of strength, beauty, coordination or, for any other reason. And especially, we should not condemn someone for being less moral than we vainly imagine we are, as if we are any better.

According to Paul in Romans, modern Christians who in any way condemn someone else as being less sexually moral as they vainly imagine themselves as being, are openly announcing to the world that they in fact, are the same Romans 2:1. According to Paul, it is not true that heterosexuals are any better than homosexuals, bisexuals, asexuals, transgender people or anyone else. Rather, it is true that all human beings possess a sexuality askew from what is right and correct before our father in heaven; for we all have sinned and fall "short" of moral, sexual and other perfection.

Let no man, woman or child deceive you concerning this, for we all like sheep have gone astray of what is morally and otherwise, correct in the eyes of God. If you do not agree that people are like sheep gone astray, check out this short video: Are People Really Sheep?. God's law is singular throughout the New Testament and is not correctly viewed as "laws" in the plural. If we have broken any tiny part of God's law, we have broken God's law Romans 3:10-19.

In Search of the Real Jesus
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Your first two verses, in context, are teaching us to judge with the same judgement we want to be judged by, Both the Old and the New Testament condemn homosexuality.