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What Does the 2nd Amendment Actually Say?
- Thread starter Richard Aberdeen
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- guns jesus love mass shootings peace
MedicBravo
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People have put labels on Jesus which may be partly true.
He is NOT a baby murderer, LGB+, rapist, thug, etc.
He does NOT advocate forced taking something from someone to give to someone else who refuses to work for it.
He is FOR borders, walls, legal immigration, Just violence where and on whom applicable.
He is for what is Good and only be God's definition.
He is NOT a baby murderer, LGB+, rapist, thug, etc.
He does NOT advocate forced taking something from someone to give to someone else who refuses to work for it.
He is FOR borders, walls, legal immigration, Just violence where and on whom applicable.
He is for what is Good and only be God's definition.
While i agree with what you say, why say it now, there have been many instances in this discussion where "Liberals" have been vilified and "Conservatives " applauded but you said nothing, so why now?,........, there are no Politics in Christs teaching, the politics are what we bring to our professed faith and are a reflection of our own Prejudices and intolerance.
And on the question of carrying weapons, what do you feel are Christs teaching on that subject, can we say we are turning the other cheek, can we say we are not resisting evil, or loving our enemies or those that abuse and spitefully use us, if our response to such situations and provocations is to blow them away with an AR-15 rifle?. If those that "live by the sword will die by the sword " , then where does that leave those that proclaim ownership and use of such "Swords" as their God given right under the Constitution?.
Whoever said he is?
So you believe that Christ would be against the principle of overseas Aid, where money is taken in the form of Taxation from the donor country and given in Aid to those in desperate need who are often unable to work for that money owing to their physical condition. As far as i read Christs words, "Loving your neighbour as yourself" and "treating others as youd want to be treated" came with no conditions or technicalities, Christs words in "The Sheep and the Goats" about helping those in need again came with no conditions and the Good Samaritan didnt ask the stranger robbed and beaten about his "work ethic" before helping him.And who is going to decide if someone is refusing to work or is incapable of doing that work, and what of his family, do they get punished as well?.
And on the subject of weapons, of bearing arms, do you think Christ advocates for "forced taking something from someone" so that that money can be spent on instruments of mass destruction and carnage.? It seems to me that Christs teachings favour the poor and suffering and oppose violence and bloodshed, so perhaps we should be advocating for that instead.
So when Christ said" when you welcomed the Stranger you welcomed me", what he should have said according to you is "when you welcomed the LEGAL stranger you welcomed me", and when he talked of Loving your neighbour as yourself, again that all involves around the question of Legality and Nationality, because according to you Christ is in favour of "Borders and Walls", could you give me a Gospel reference for that because it seems to me that Christ was all about tearing down walls and borders, both within ourselves , the walls and borders of self interest and greed and in the walls and borders that we create in our lives to differentiate who belongs and who doesnt, who is worthy and who isnt, because at the end of the day "We're ALL wretched sinners in the sight of God and ALL in need of his Grace, Forgiveness and Mercy.
As for Christ being FOR " Just violence where and on whom applicable.", where does Christ advocate that for his followers, and who is going to decide what violence is "Just" and on whom it should fall. Are you going to decide that, is the government, just who gets to decide who will live and who will die?. Ive got to say this idea of Christ advocating his followers perpetrate just violence on those deemed unworthy ,or unjust, or abject sinners, or whatever, seems totally alien to the Christ i know who advocated to love your enemies and turn the other cheek, but give me your references, what Christ actually said and not what you infer ,and i'll check them out.
JN 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
JN 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
Peter was going for the head. In this case Jesus stopped him so that scriptures would be fulfilled.
In Matthews account of Christs arrest in Matthew 26: 49-56 Christ says in Verse 52 " Put up thy sword into his place, for ALL they that take the sword will perish by the sword", also in Lukes account in Luke 22:51 Christ heals the man whose ear has been cut off, it hardly seems like a vindication of violence, so i would ask again, where does Christ advocate " Just violence where and on whom applicable.", and who is going to decide what violence is "Just" and on whom it should fall.?
MedicBravo
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Peter was affected by his emotions and trying to prevent prophesy from being fulfilled.
What if the police came to arrest your spouse, best friend, etc. with no explanation and it reeked of suspicion?
You'd probably act similarly.
What if the police came to arrest your spouse, best friend, etc. with no explanation and it reeked of suspicion?
You'd probably act similarly.
Thats a good point, i've never thought about that before,
But how do you reconcile Christ not condemning Peter for bearing arms with his words in the Sermon on the mount in Matthew 5: 38-48,
" 38Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
How can you bear arms, presumably with the intention of using them, when Christ says "Do not resist evil, turn the other cheek and Love your enemies"?. and also in Matthew 26: 49-56 Christ says in Verse 52 " Put up thy sword into his place, for ALL they that take the sword will perish by the sword",?.
I dont think i'd act so violently, but i get your point, most of us would react to that situation with varying degrees of anger, violence and hatred at our perceived enemies actions, that would be the Human response.
But doesnt Christs words in Matthew 5:38-48 ,which ive quoted above in my previous post, go exactly against what our human response would be, And that surely is the case in so many of Christs commandments and teachings, we would want to act in one way, he tells us to act in another, often diametrically opposed to how we'd want to respond.
The question is, who do we obey, our own sinful urgings or the teachings of the Saviour we profess to follow,
All my bible teachers over the years have concluded that self-defense is allowed and I agree. (example)
For sure "love your enemies" is one of the most unconventional doctrines of Jesus. It's so beautiful and we need help from the Holy Spirit to accomplish it. A smite on the cheek is more of an affront to our ego than a major threat. Our body is the temple of God so major threats should be thwarted. Jesus' apostles were prepared for major threats but this wasn't one of them. A band of thieves beating them nearly to death would be a major threat.
