“Christians and conservatives.” Really?

[Born Again 2004]

There are a many "Conservatives" I'm sure, that will probably not be saved in time. According to world statics there are millions of Christians But that is Man's accounting, bet there are a lot fewer by God's records!

But I have questions that continue to perplex me when it comes to liberals vs. conservatives:
1. Same set marriages: conservative or Llibral ?
2. BLM, conservative or liberal?
3. Defund police: conservative or liberal?
4. Transgenders: conservatives or liberals?
5. True Christians by God's standards: conservatives or liberals?

What say you?

 

[PloughBoy]

What fellowship have believers with unbelievers, for they have NOTHING in Common” “Love Not The World neither the things [systems] of the World”. “who so ever loves this world is an enemy of GOD” “Set your affection on things in the heavens not on the things of this world”.
These are commands!

“ I came not to bring peace upon this world but a sword”.
“ I will set every man against his neighbor”. And for this time is near” and this prophecy will come to past. And many are not going to even know it while it is right dead in their faces. Why because many are still blind and cannot see yet they say they can see. For GOD has blinded their eyes although their eyes are open

what kind of people are leading some down this path and many are following these in this pernicious ways.
“A Good Soldier of Jesus Christ does not get entangled with the [civil] affairs of this life”.

 

[Born Again 2004]

What fellowship have believers with unbelievers, for they have NOTHING in Common” “Love Not The World neither the things [systems] of the World”. “who so ever loves this world is an enemy of GOD” “Set your affection on things in the heavens not on the things of this world”.
These are commands!

“ I came not to bring peace upon this world but a sword”.
“ I will set every man against his neighbor”. And for this time is near” and this prophecy will come to past. And many are not going to even know it while it is right dead in their faces. Why because many are still blind and cannot see yet they say they can see. For GOD has blinded their eyes although their eyes are open

what kind of people are leading some down this path and many are following these in this pernicious ways.
“A Good Soldier of Jesus Christ does not get entangled with the [civil] affairs of this life”.

The Word according to Ploughboy!

 

[PloughBoy]

The Word according to Ploughboy!

Really?

 

[Born Again 2004]

Really?

Apparently so!
Sad but true!

 

[Kirby D. P.]

There are a many "Conservatives" I'm sure, that will probably not be saved in time. According to world statics there are millions of Christians But that is Man's accounting, bet there are a lot fewer by God's records!

But I have questions that continue to perplex me when it comes to liberals vs. conservatives:
1. Same set marriages: conservative or Llibral ?
2. BLM, conservative or liberal?
3. Defund police: conservative or liberal?
4. Transgenders: conservatives or liberals?
5. True Christians by God's standards: conservatives or liberals?

What say you?

As you ask some clear, specific questions, I’m happy to offer my honest responses. Please know I am not here to preach anything other than acceptance.

1. Same sex marriage: I know this is considered “liberal,” but I wish it were not. We have erected a society that serves its people best when they have access to a legal union of one’s estate with another. I can’t fathom why or even how the particular sex of those individuals calculates into its function as an institution or whether it is “conservative” or “liberal.”

2. BLM is a decidedly progressive or liberal political movement. Do you consider it pro- or anti-Christian?

3. Defund police: Ditto. And, to sketch out with a little nuance as to my own scruples, I consider myself among the most liberal/progressive people I know. But I’m not sure Defund proponents are going about accomplishing their goals in a very smart way. For instance, I think calling it “DEFUND the police” may be the most dunderheaded PR move in the history of political activism.

4. Transgender lifestyle — why on earth is this a political issue? All genders are a costume we wear to feel good in our own skin and to communicate to others how we see ourselves. Yes, the Bible says a man shall not wear women’s clothing and vice versa. But is anybody even sure what that really means? If you saw a person walking down Main Street dressed as every depiction I’ve ever seen of Jesus during his ministry, you couldn’t claim they weren’t wearing a “dress.” And I’m quite positive I’ve seen Dolly Parton in blue jeans.

5. True Christians by God's standards: conservatives or liberals? That’s between every person and God, isn’t it? Look back at my remarks in this thread and I think you’ll see there are lots of very liberal people I consider to be excellent Christians. Indeed, it is nigh impossible for me to imagine how a committed disciple of Christ’s teachings could find restrictive immigration/border policy or the suffering of the destitute both here and abroad at all acceptable, to them or to God. To me, such matters make handwringing over whether a guy likes wearing high heels seem silly. Or it would seem silly if it weren’t so sad. But it’s not for me to say. I don’t get to look anyone who claims to be a Christian in the eye and tell them, “No, you’re not.” So, I submit the question as to whether someone is a “true” Christian according to another person’s notion of God’s standard is based on a flawed premise.

I’d love to know your thoughts on any or all of the above. Though I am particularly interested in your answer to mine about BLM. Do you consider BLM as advancing or eroding Christian values? If so, upon what basis?

 

[Born Again 2004]

As you ask some clear, specific questions, I’m happy to offer my honest responses. Please know I am not here to preach anything other than acceptance.

1. Same sex marriage: I know this is considered “liberal,” but I wish it were not. We have erected a society that serves its people best when they have access to a legal union of one’s estate with another. I can’t fathom why or even how the particular sex of those individuals calculates into its function as an institution or whether it is “conservative” or “liberal.”

2. BLM is a decidedly progressive or liberal political movement. Do you consider it pro- or anti-Christian?

3. Defund police: Ditto. And, to sketch out with a little nuance as to my own scruples, I consider myself among the most liberal/progressive people I know. But I’m not sure Defund proponents are going about accomplishing their goals in a very smart way. For instance, I think calling it “DEFUND the police” may be the most dunderheaded PR move in the history of political activism.

4. Transgender lifestyle — why on earth is this a political issue? All genders are a costume we wear to feel good in our own skin and to communicate to others how we see ourselves. Yes, the Bible says a man shall not wear women’s clothing and vice versa. But is anybody even sure what that really means? If you saw a person walking down Main Street dressed as every depiction I’ve ever seen of Jesus during his ministry, you couldn’t claim they weren’t wearing a “dress.” And I’m quite positive I’ve seen Dolly Parton in blue jeans.

5. True Christians by God's standards: conservatives or liberals? That’s between every person and God, isn’t it? Look back at my remarks in this thread and I think you’ll see there are lots of very liberal people I consider to be excellent Christians. Indeed, it is nigh impossible for me to imagine how a committed disciple of Christ’s teachings could find restrictive immigration/border policy or the suffering of the destitute both here and abroad at all acceptable, to them or to God. To me, such matters make handwringing over whether a guy likes wearing high heels seem silly. Or it would seem silly if it weren’t so sad. But it’s not for me to say. I don’t get to look anyone who claims to be a Christian in the eye and tell them, “No, you’re not.” So, I submit the question as to whether someone is a “true” Christian according to another person’s notion of God’s standard is based on a flawed premise.

I’d love to know your thoughts on any or all of the above. Though I am particularly interested in your answer to mine about BLM. Do you consider BLM as advancing or eroding Christian values? If so, upon what basis?

So, you can't fathom it ?

Many liberals or , you may call them Progressives, consider themselves to be Christian, I guess you can fathom that too?

So are Homosexuals, Christians?
Maybe repenting ones are!

 

[Kirby D. P.]

So, you can't fathom it ?

Many liberals or , you may call them Progressives, consider themselves to be Christian, I guess you can fathom that too?

So are Homosexuals, Christians?
Maybe repenting ones are!

I’m not 100% certain you’re taking this topic seriously.

Maybe you take the word “fathom” more melodramatically than i intend.

As a social institution, one which pools a married couple’s property and legal interests, which arms each other to act as special advocates for the other’s welfare, to share the legal and social duties of rearing any children, etc., etc., I fail to see any importance in the sex of either or both spouses in any marriage.

Again (this is my third articulation of it) not only do I think good Christians CAN be liberals, in my opinion, the best ones ARE.

You seem to think the very notion of a good gay Christian as a joke. My gay Christian friends do not find it so, nor do I.

But you haven’t answered my question about BLM. Is someone who participates in BLM activism rendered a “good” Christian or a “bad” Christian by dint of that involvement?

 

[Born Again 2004]

I’m not 100% certain you’re taking this topic seriously.

Maybe you take the word “fathom” more melodramatically than i intend.

As a social institution, one which pools a married couple’s property and legal interests, which arms each other to act as special advocates for the other’s welfare, to share the legal and social duties of rearing any children, etc., etc., I fail to see any importance in the sex of either or both spouses in any marriage.

Again (this is my third articulation of it) not only do I think good Christians CAN be liberals, in my opinion, the best ones ARE.

You seem to think the very notion of a good gay Christian as a joke. My gay Christian friends do not find it so, nor do I.

But you haven’t answered my question about BLM. Is someone who participates in BLM activism rendered a “good” Christian or a “bad” Christian by dint of that involvement?

So, I gather, you do not adhere to the original Biblical definition of a marriage as between a Man and a Woman and Procreation?
2. According to scripture, is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob Man or Woman?

 

[PloughBoy]

I never met a good Christian but I have met a lot of fake ones.
It is bad place to be when a person is so deceive they deceive the own self while looking in a mirror and still putting on layers of lipstick and makeup, and asking the mirror who is the fairous of all.

The results of “The Original Sin” Is hard pill to swallow. For many! And it is shame that many cannot swallow a pill

 

[Mister]

@Kirby D. P.

I would be careful to say that BLM is good. What is their founding based on? What are their goals?

Here is a link: https://blacklivesmatter.com/herstory/

I would really guard yourself from getting wrapped up in such matters. Proclaimed efforts and agendas or what you see at the surface maybe smoke and mirrors from what the real goals are.

Sometimes we march backwards and try make the Bible fit into a worldly group or idea. I'd say change directions and let the Bible lead us in the way we should go.

Additionally, marriage is between one man and one woman, as God made us male and female. Conservatives didn't. Liberals didn't. God did.

 

[Kirby D. P.]

So, I gather, you do not adhere to the original Biblical definition of a marriage as between a Man and a Woman and Procreation?
2. According to scripture, is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob Man or Woman?

Those are two interesting questions, Born Again. And I’ll be happy to answer them once you answer mine.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Those are two interesting questions, Born Again. And I’ll be happy to answer them once you answer mine.

Sorry, what was your question? I must have overlooked it!

 

[PloughBoy]

The word of God and the Law of GOD was Written For GODS people, The world can do what the heck they want to do. They are going to hell no matter what whether they are straight or crooked, gay or heterosexual! According to the Book. So “BLM”, “Freemasonry “ Greek Sorority “ Greek Men “ is just as evil. They worship and have a mix membership of witches warlocks, voodoo, black magic all the rest are tied into a everlasting covenant secret society they are. But churches welcome them.

But the child of GOD should have no part of any!

“Be ye Separated”
PS and do not belong to a all white club only! That’s is evil too “No private churches”. Secret society. White members only”. But don’t tell nobody. But mama, by our fruits they will know us!

Shut up boy, we serve at the soup kitchen every thanksgiving!

 

[Kirby D. P.]

@Kirby D. P.

I would be careful to say that BLM is good. What is their founding based on? What are their goals?

Here is a link: https://blacklivesmatter.com/herstory/

I would really guard yourself from getting wrapped up in such matters. Proclaimed efforts and agendas or what you see at the surface maybe smoke and mirrors from what the real goals are.

Sometimes we march backwards and try make the Bible fit into a worldly group or idea. I'd say change directions and let the Bible lead us in the way we should go.

Additionally, marriage is between one man and one woman, as God made us male and female. Conservatives didn't. Liberals didn't. God did.

I have my own opinions of BLM, but they in no way bear on this conversation. I THINK Born Again is insinuating no one who supports BLM can be a “good” Christian. I am trying to give Born Again every fair opportunity to clarify that position, something they seem reluctant to do for some reason.

The link you share is an interesting read, but lacks any mention of words like Christ, Christian, Jesus, religion, sin, etc. If it offers some clearly delineated anti-Christian declaration, could you please call it out for me?

I am aware that certain scripture does “define marriage” as “1 man and 1 woman.” But, if we MUST abide that definition, mustn’t we also observe that when a man, “…take ANOTHER wife for himself; her food, her clothing, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish" (Ex 21:10). Or that a King may not have TOO MANY wiveS (Deut 17:17). Nor a man favor his children by one wife over his children by ANOTHER wife (Deut 21:15-17). To say NOTHING of the whole freaky Abraham, Sarah, Hagar throuple thing.

My point is not to split hairs over scripture. You say you are a Christian. I accept that. You tell me, by your interpretation of Christianity, marriage can only ever be between one man and one woman. I accept that as well. All I ask is you allow there are sincere, devout believers who call themselves Christians and whose understanding of a Christian marriage is not so cut and dried as you claim; and they have coherent, legitimate basis for that interpretation.

 

[Kirby D. P.]

Sorry, what was your question? I must have overlooked it!

Twice, Born Again.

Is supporting BLM the act of a good Christian? Of a “bad” (or “fake”) Christian? Or does it have neither bearing upon nor reflection of their Christianity?

 

[Kirby D. P.]

The word of God and the Law of GOD was Written For GODS people, The world can do what the heck they want to do. They are going to hell no matter what whether they are straight or crooked, gay or heterosexual! According to the Book. So “BLM”, “Freemasonry “ Greek Sorority “ Greek Men “ is just as evil. They worship and have a mix membership of witches warlocks, voodoo, black magic all the rest are tied into a everlasting covenant secret society they are. But churches welcome them.

But the child of GOD should have no part of any!

“Be ye Separated”
PS and do not belong to a all white club only! That’s is evil too “No private churches”. Secret society. White members only”. But don’t tell nobody. But mama, by our fruits they will know us!

Shut up boy, we serve at the soup kitchen every thanksgiving!

Um… can I have some of whatever it is you’re having?

 

[Gregoryp]

As you ask some clear, specific questions, I’m happy to offer my honest responses. Please know I am not here to preach anything other than acceptance.

1. Same sex marriage: I know this is considered “liberal,” but I wish it were not. We have erected a society that serves its people best when they have access to a legal union of one’s estate with another. I can’t fathom why or even how the particular sex of those individuals calculates into its function as an institution or whether it is “conservative” or “liberal.”

2. BLM is a decidedly progressive or liberal political movement. Do you consider it pro- or anti-Christian?

3. Defund police: Ditto. And, to sketch out with a little nuance as to my own scruples, I consider myself among the most liberal/progressive people I know. But I’m not sure Defund proponents are going about accomplishing their goals in a very smart way. For instance, I think calling it “DEFUND the police” may be the most dunderheaded PR move in the history of political activism.

4. Transgender lifestyle — why on earth is this a political issue? All genders are a costume we wear to feel good in our own skin and to communicate to others how we see ourselves. Yes, the Bible says a man shall not wear women’s clothing and vice versa. But is anybody even sure what that really means? If you saw a person walking down Main Street dressed as every depiction I’ve ever seen of Jesus during his ministry, you couldn’t claim they weren’t wearing a “dress.” And I’m quite positive I’ve seen Dolly Parton in blue jeans.

5. True Christians by God's standards: conservatives or liberals? That’s between every person and God, isn’t it? Look back at my remarks in this thread and I think you’ll see there are lots of very liberal people I consider to be excellent Christians. Indeed, it is nigh impossible for me to imagine how a committed disciple of Christ’s teachings could find restrictive immigration/border policy or the suffering of the destitute both here and abroad at all acceptable, to them or to God. To me, such matters make handwringing over whether a guy likes wearing high heels seem silly. Or it would seem silly if it weren’t so sad. But it’s not for me to say. I don’t get to look anyone who claims to be a Christian in the eye and tell them, “No, you’re not.” So, I submit the question as to whether someone is a “true” Christian according to another person’s notion of God’s standard is based on a flawed premise.

I’d love to know your thoughts on any or all of the above. Though I am particularly interested in your answer to mine about BLM. Do you consider BLM as advancing or eroding Christian values? If so, upon what basis?

Let me guess, you go to a Hillsong type church?You just condoned homosexuality , violence, removing police authority, and going against scripture by condoning men wearing womens clothes which makes them effeminate. This is not the values of a true christian, as a matter of fact the label christian has been so sullied that I doubt it no longer has any meaning.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Twice, Born Again.

Is supporting BLM the act of a good Christian? Of a “bad” (or “fake”) Christian? Or does it have neither bearing upon nor reflection of their Christianity?

Wow! That is one question!?
I'll do my honest best on all questions:

Is supporting BLM the actor a good Christian or a bad Christian or any bearing on Christanityat all?
Answer: I don't know, only God is the ultimate Decider of who is a Christian or not, But I do know this....the "original" BLM and there supporters have evil intentions..
I don't see any " good" person supporting that.
Also, there is the faction that says: by not supporting BLM is racist.
Neither are good...are they?

So, I am no longer interested in you answering
any of my previous guestions, so am I allowed to ask another question?

 

[Kirby D. P.]

Let me guess, you go to a Hillsong type church?You just condoned homosexuality , violence, removing police authority, and going against scripture by condoning men wearing womens clothes which makes them effeminate. This is not the values of a true christian, as a matter of fact the label christian has been so sullied that I doubt it no longer has any meaning.

Let me guess, you go to a Hillsong type church?You just condoned homosexuality , violence, removing police authority, and going against scripture by condoning men wearing womens clothes which makes them effeminate. This is not the values of a true christian, as a matter of fact the label christian has been so sullied that I doubt it no longer has any meaning.

Well, Gregoryp, as long as you’re in a “casting the first stone” kind of mood, i may as well paint out your target more clearly. It may improve your aim.

I do not “condone” homosexuality. I accept it as a fact of nature and I celebrate it in the many homosexuals and other LGBTQers among my closest loved ones.

I condemn any violence whatsoever except in self defense.

The fact you suppose my critique of Defund as a condoning of the removal of police authority is a superb illustration of my problem with it: I reject the notion of extinguishing police authority and, if that’s what “Defund” means I reject that as well. However, I have spoken with many Defund advocates and, at least in their cases, that is not what they mean. I’ll be sure to inform them of your utter misunderstanding on that score when I can. I’m sure, working together, you and I and other like-minded individuals can succeed in transforming the police forces of the nation from a stance less evocative of an army of occupation to one that employs its officers to the task most of them sincerely desire: to genuinely protect and serve ALL its citizens equally and justly.

As for what distinguishes one bunch of rags as “men’s” clothing from another bunch of rags as “women’s” clothing, that’s a magic trick that happens inside YOUR head, just like the magic trick that informs you which rag flapping in the wind to salute. And, to me it seems, it is a problem as easily remedied as the wave of a magic wand, or whatever trinkets you do your magic with.

But, thank you, for presenting a textbook demonstration of a lone individual who feels endowed with clairvoyance adequate to ascertain, with finer resolution than God almighty, whether a person is a “true Christian.” See, that’s a charge I would never make so bold as to lodge against anyone as, in my opinion, it can only be divined in the confession of one’s heart, and whether it is at all pleasing in God’s eye. I don’t pretend to know the mind of God.

Finally, among all my other numerous character flaws, I am a grammar Nazi. I can overlook your execrable spelling. But I really must draw the line at double negatives. “I doubt it no longer has any meaning”? Come on Gregoryp. Your 3rd Grade teacher taught you better than that.

Well, there you have it. Stone away. Do your worst, safe in the knowledge I can never call you a “false Christian” because I am not qualified to do so. I don’t think anybody is.