“Clearing up the Fallacies about going to Heaven”

[ozell]

So you think that Jesus lives in our minds???

Jiggy

do you think about Jesus every day or any day?


Jesus and his word is always on my mind, I talk about Him all the time as the scripture says

pay attention Jiggy

Malachi 3

Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

and when you study God word what is the result

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

do you meditate on the Lord Jiggy

Psalm 1:2
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psalm 63:6
When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.

Psalm 77:12

I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.
1 Timothy 4:14-16


Jiggy

how do we get the mind of Jesus as Paul said do?
1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+2:15-16&version=KJV

 

[ozell]

Jesus said no man has ascended unto heaven, do you believe this?

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.



Jesus said no man has went to heaven why do you say man has went?

who are we to beleive?

 

[jiggyfly]

Jiggy

do you think about Jesus every day or any day?


Jesus and his word is always on my mind, I talk about Him all the time as the scripture says

pay attention Jiggy

Malachi 3

Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

and when you study God word what is the result

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

do you meditate on the Lord Jiggy

Psalm 1:2
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psalm 63:6
When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.

Psalm 77:12

I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.
1 Timothy 4:14-16


Jiggy

how do we get the mind of Jesus as Paul said do?
1 Corinthians 2:16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Corinthians+2:15-16&version=KJV

Pay attention Ozell!!!! Do you think Jesus lives in our minds? That was my question, if you can't give a direct answer of yes or no then just say so.

 

[Kit Carson]

Well Enoch walked with God and then vanished. But God does not say where he vanished to. It is man who adds to this and says, he went to heaven.

God took the body of Moses and hid it, so Satan could not find it. Man adds to this too, about preservation of the body and the body is important to God and so on, but God holds the blueprint of all, as he knew us before we were born, so burial or cremation, is cool, the blueprint it safe, God simply did not want Satan to have the body for whatever he wanted to do with it.

Jesus says to the thief on the cross you will be in heaven with me, but he did not mean today, he meant when heaven comes to be. Just moving the comma in the sentence gives it a whole new meaning.

Jesus says no man has been to heaven but himself.

We are told we will rise at the resurrection.

Seems fairly simple to me, we sleep for however long it may be, till we wake.

Our spirit must go somewhere, as we are told the disembodied souls cry to God, how much longer must we wait?? But again it does not say they wait in heaven.

Kit

 

[jiggyfly]

Well Enoch walked with God and then vanished. But God does not say where he vanished to. It is man who adds to this and says, he went to heaven.

God took the body of Moses and hid it, so Satan could not find it. Man adds to this too, about preservation of the body and the body is important to God and so on, but God holds the blueprint of all, as he knew us before we were born, so burial or cremation, is cool, the blueprint it safe, God simply did not want Satan to have the body for whatever he wanted to do with it.

Jesus says to the thief on the cross you will be in heaven with me, but he did not mean today, he meant when heaven comes to be. Just moving the comma in the sentence gives it a whole new meaning.

Jesus says no man has been to heaven but himself.

We are told we will rise at the resurrection.

Seems fairly simple to me, we sleep for however long it may be, till we wake.

Our spirit must go somewhere, as we are told the disembodied souls cry to God, how much longer must we wait?? But again it does not say they wait in heaven.

Kit

40 But the other criminal protested, “Don’t you fear God even when you have been sentenced to die?41 We deserve to die for our crimes, but this man hasn’t done anything wrong.”42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.”
43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Luke 23:40-43 (NLT)

According to this scripture the thief went to the same place Christ went that very day.

 

[RJ]

Jesus said no man has ascended unto heaven, do you believe this?

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.



Jesus said no man has went to heaven why do you say man has went?

who are we to beleive?

You are unbeleivable Ozell. Only your "hollier than thow" and arrogant, condescending attitude preceeds you.

You constantly tell others to "Pay Attention" like your are some God given teacher to the rest of us!

Through out your threads you chastise the rest of us to not take things out of context and you say: " You Must Take In The Whole Counsel Of God"!

Then in the John 3 : 13 above you do just that; you take this verse completely out of context! Either that or you do not understand the "full counsel of God" as you claim.

John 3
<SUP id=en-NIV1984-26124 class=versenum>13</SUP> No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.<SUP class=footnote value='[d]'>[d]</SUP> <SUP id=en-NIV1984-26125 class=versenum>14</SUP> Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, <SUP id=en-NIV1984-26126 class=versenum>15</SUP> that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.<SUP class=footnote value='[e]'>[e]</SUP>


You either are in error or on purpose leave out supporting verses as Jesus goes on to explain his statement in vs. 3.

Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about future things to come. He was talking to Nicodemus within the confines of the Old Covenant...( Pay Attention Ozell...lol!)
Jesus says in vs. 14 that he must be lifted up (die on the cross) first. So yes, in verse 13, he told Nicodemus no one has gone into heaven because He , Jesus, has not ushered in the New Covenant yet!

Please, with all do respect and love, if your are going to be the Teacher and we the students, please get the facts straight!

 

[will]

I don't really care where I will be beyond physical death as long as I am with my Lord Jesus.
He is the one who captivated me with His authority, love, and grace.
He's my captain, my King, and my God.

And you know what, because He is God, He can be anywhere He wishes to be.

Brother ozell, you are not always correct in your interpretation of the Scriptures, none of us are. That's why we study the Scriptures all of our lives.

May I ask you to consider assuming a less authoritarian stance in your correspondence? You can learn a lot from many brothers and sisters in this forum.

 

[Kit Carson]

40 But the other criminal protested, “Don’t you fear God even when you have been sentenced to die?41 We deserve to die for our crimes, but this man hasn’t done anything wrong.”42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.”
43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Luke 23:40-43 (NLT)

According to this scripture the thief went to the same place Christ went that very day.

I dunno, this stuff is fun I guess, trying to get too smart makes us dumb sometimes. I assure you today , you will be with me, or I assure you , today you will be with me has two meanings simply due to human error in the print. For one thing Jesus died on the cross and was put in a tomb or cave or something for three days, and then rose from the dead. Did he go to heaven first?? I dunno, or did he simply become the first with the new body as all men will one day ?? Many seem to think due to error in the print, what Jesus meant was I assure you today, that you will be in heaven with me. Not today we will be in heaven. It is a play on words.

Kinda like where Luke says that during the rapture of those who are still alive on earth, that two men in the same bed ....one will be gone one will stay, when the real word in its translation is duo or two or man and wife, the scribe went to sleep ........got tired......Lol! That little mistake in the King James has caused many a discussion too. Maybe Satan did it.......he is sneaky that way.

I really do not know, it does not tell us 100 percent for sure. Using human thinking, I would not want to wait till the last day for everyone, because the line would be really long.....a little humor, I would think God is the one of order and intelligence and would deal with things as they come up.....but who knows. He is outside of time so time means little to him. Gonna be a long line, better take something to eat......Lol!

Seriously and not messing around, I think we just go to sleep for a long time, till the day and the time is ready. The entire context of the Bible seems to tell me this. But that is how I read it and understand it, have been wrong before. I feel like Will does though, I really do not know, so surprise me. All I know is heaven is promised, when and wherever it is .
Kit

 

[ozell]

Pay attention Ozell!!!! Do you think Jesus lives in our minds? That was my question, if you can't give a direct answer of yes or no then just say so.

Jiggy

I will not answer you from here on out because of your immaturity

the bible answered your question and for some reason you can't comprehend this

so I will refrain from answering anything your post, becuase your next step is to close this thread or ban me.


i don't agree with your doctrine, I don't beleive in your doctrine

I beleive hwat is written in the pages of Genesis to revelation not jiggy.

peace in Jesus

 

[ozell]

=RJ;189893]You are unbeleivable Ozell. Only your "hollier than thow" and arrogant, condescending attitude preceeds you.

what do this have to do with the lesson? there is nothing I wrote or said for you to judge.

You constantly tell others to "Pay Attention" like your are some God given teacher to the rest of us!

RJ

I put pay attention to emphasize the next point.

STOP WITH THE EMOTIONS PLEASE.

Through out your threads you chastise the rest of us to not take things out of context and you say: " You Must Take In The Whole Counsel Of God"!

This is your opinion and nothing more

Then in the John 3 : 13 above you do just that; you take this verse completely out of context! Either that or you do not understand the "full counsel of God" as you claim.

John 3
<SUP id=en-NIV1984-26124 class=versenum>13</SUP> No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.<SUP class=footnote value='[d]'>[d]</SUP> <SUP id=en-NIV1984-26125 class=versenum>14</SUP> Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, <SUP id=en-NIV1984-26126 class=versenum>15</SUP> that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.<SUP class=footnote value='[e]'>[e]</SUP>


You either are in error or on purpose leave out supporting verses as Jesus goes on to explain his statement in vs. 3.

Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about future things to come. He was talking to Nicodemus within the confines of the Old Covenant...( Pay Attention Ozell...lol!)
Jesus says in vs. 14 that he must be lifted up (die on the cross) first. So yes, in verse 13, he told Nicodemus no one has gone into heaven because He , Jesus, has not ushered in the New Covenant yet!

Please, with all do respect and love, if your are going to be the Teacher and we the students, please get the facts straight

!

add all the verse you want RJ

because the topic is about heaven this verse is what I focused on

the fact without EMOTIONS RJ is this

Jesus said no man has not ascended up to heaven

pay attention to this RJ

from Adam to our Generation we are the family of man and Jesus said no man has went to heaven

addressed the statement by Jesus concerning man going to heaven

do it without the emotions and trying to tell me what I am and who I am

Please.

 

[jiggyfly]

Ozell you need some time away from TJ.

 

[jiggyfly]

I dunno, this stuff is fun I guess, trying to get too smart makes us dumb sometimes. I assure you today , you will be with me, or I assure you , today you will be with me has two meanings simply due to human error in the print. For one thing Jesus died on the cross and was put in a tomb or cave or something for three days, and then rose from the dead. Did he go to heaven first?? I dunno, or did he simply become the first with the new body as all men will one day ?? Many seem to think due to error in the print, what Jesus meant was I assure you today, that you will be in heaven with me. Not today we will be in heaven. It is a play on words.

Kinda like where Luke says that during the rapture of those who are still alive on earth, that two men in the same bed ....one will be gone one will stay, when the real word in its translation is duo or two or man and wife, the scribe went to sleep ........got tired......Lol! That little mistake in the King James has caused many a discussion too. Maybe Satan did it.......he is sneaky that way.

I really do not know, it does not tell us 100 percent for sure. Using human thinking, I would not want to wait till the last day for everyone, because the line would be really long.....a little humor, I would think God is the one of order and intelligence and would deal with things as they come up.....but who knows. He is outside of time so time means little to him. Gonna be a long line, better take something to eat......Lol!

Seriously and not messing around, I think we just go to sleep for a long time, till the day and the time is ready. The entire context of the Bible seems to tell me this. But that is how I read it and understand it, have been wrong before. I feel like Will does though, I really do not know, so surprise me. All I know is heaven is promised, when and wherever it is .
Kit

I stand corrected I did not consider sentence structure on this scripture. Thanks for pointing it out to me KC, I'm gonna check it out right now.

PS this might take awhile, so far the majority of the translations put the comma after "you" and so far 2 translations put it after "today". I'm checking some word studies that I have now.

 

[RJ]

what do this have to do with the lesson? there is nothing I wrote or said for you to judge.




RJ

I put pay attention to emphasize the next point.

STOP WITH THE EMOTIONS PLEASE.



This is your opinion and nothing more

!

add all the verse you want RJ

because the topic is about heaven this verse is what I focused on

the fact without EMOTIONS RJ is this

Jesus said no man has not ascended up to heaven

pay attention to this RJ

from Adam to our Generation we are the family of man and Jesus said no man has went to heaven

addressed the statement by Jesus concerning man going to heaven

do it without the emotions and trying to tell me what I am and who I am

Please.

This is your statement Ozell:
pay attention to this RJ

from Adam to our Generation we are the family of man and Jesus said no man has went to heaven

addressed the statement by Jesus concerning man going to heaven

I explained how Jesus said this while still under the Old Covenant and how you took it out of context.
But you refuse to see John 3 vs. 14 and just repeat John 3 vs. 13 all over again, to suit your own theology.

With all do respect Ozell, blind is blind and you can not see past your own arrogance and condescending nature.

And please, stop it with your refering to my emotions nonsense and stick with the subject!

What is your interpretation of vs. 14 then?

 

[gdemoss]

which one of these verse say that you go to heaven?

Why turn the question back to me in a different form and avoid answering the questions to the scriptures that I have? Can you answer the questions?

lets read th rest and not stop where pastors tell us

2 Corinthians 5 (King James Version)

<SUP id=en-KJV-28879 class=versenum>1</SUP>For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28880 class=versenum>2</SUP>For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
<SUP id=en-KJV-28881 class=versenum>3</SUP>If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28882 class=versenum>4</SUP>For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28883 class=versenum>5</SUP>Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28884 class=versenum>6</SUP>Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
<SUP id=en-KJV-28885 class=versenum>7</SUP>(For we walk by faith, not by sight

<SUP id=en-KJV-28886 class=versenum>8</SUP>We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

when?

<SUP id=en-KJV-28887 class=versenum>9</SUP>Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28888 class=versenum>10</SUP>For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

when the Lord returns

This is helpful Ozell, you provided food for thought. One thing that I understand is that there is a thought process out there that has twisted this scripture to say "to be absent from the body is to be immediately present with the Lord" and that isn't what it says.

I have more reason to believe that there isn't an interlude in heaven than that there is but I need answers to the questions that I have previously posed.

Will you provide your answers to them?

 

[Kit Carson]

There are many views and many opinions. None of us know for sure but I simply have learned to trust God.

He tells us that even heaven will be renewed, that there will be a new earth and a new heaven. His word seems to tell us that there is war and conflict now even in heaven, as there is on earth. And all things will be made new.

God is the ultimate scientist, the holder of laws and power we cannot even comprehend. He is outside of time and time was created for our understanding and reason. We cannot hope to know his mind or the total understanding of his glory in creation of the universe and all things. It is so hard to grasp that something has always been, and always will be outside of our understanding, so as he tells us, we just have to trust him. It is not hard for me to simply say to myself that I do not understand but I do trust. It took me awhile to get there but that is how I view it now.

I think our soul goes to God when we die, that he hold the blueprint of each of us, that his spirit is in each one of us that accepts him. This is how he knows all things all the time, his way and will and presences is so vast we cannot comprehend it. Men try in their limited intelligence to write it down, then we come along and try to figure it out in our way also.

I simply accept I do not know. But one day I will. For now this is good enough for me.

Kit

 

[james g]

God has said, 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.' The believer has sinned, and has died in Christ's death. The law has said, 'Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.' None have continued in obedience. But Christ has been 'made a curse for us'; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree.' Hence, crucified with Christ, we have been accursed in Him. Not one jot or tittle has then passed away from the law, but all has been fulfilled."


The law's just penalty--"the soul that sinneth, it shall die" (Ezek. 18:4)--was fulfilled by the believer's death with Christ. "For I, through the law, am dead to the law, that I might live unto God" (Gal. 2:19). Thus God's holy law is upheld, honored, and its claims fully met. It has no more jurisdiction over the dead and risen believer; he is now "married to another, even to Him who is raised from the dead" (Rom. 7:4).


The Lord Jesus Christ is our life

 

[brakelite]

The belief that man enters heaven or hell (or purgatory) immediately upon death is predicated on the false belief that man is naturally immortal. The doctrine of natural immortality, first borrowed from pagan philosophy and in the darkness of the great apostasy of the middle ages incorporated intoi the Christian faith, has supplanted the truth, so plainly taught in scripture, that "the dead know not anything". (Eccl. 9:5)

Gen. 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul."

Please notice that man was not given a living soul, but became a living soul. Thus he does not have a soul, but is a soul.

Eccl. 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to God who gave it."

Gen 2:16 ¶ "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die".

Gen. 3:1,4 ¶ Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?.....
.....And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Ezek. 18:4,5 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right....
...9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.....
....20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21 ¶ But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

The above quotes from Ezekiel reveal that everyone is responsible for his own actions, no-one is responsible for another's sin. It also reveals that the soul (living man/human being/person) that sins, dies. But if that soul (read person/man/woman) repents and obeys, that soul shall live. The death and life depicted here are complete opposites.
Now the scriptures also inform us that every soul has sinned, without exception. Death has passed onto all men because of sin, however, praise God, through faith in Jesus and acceptance of His sacrifice on our behalf, we may receive eternal life.

John 3:14-16 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 6:22,23 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

In the above verses death and life are presented as complete opposites. Immortality, promised to Adam and Eve upon obedience, had been forfeited by transgression. Adam could not transmit to his posterity that which he did not possess:and there could have been no hope for the fallen race had not God, by the sacrifice of His Son, brought immortality within their reach. While "death passed upon all men, for all men have sinned", Christ "hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel". Rom. 5:12; 2 Tim. 1:10

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life;

The only one who promised Adam life in disobedience was the great deceiver, and the declaration of the serpent to Eve in Eden - "ye shall not surely die" - was the first sermon ever preached on the immortality of the soul. Yet this declaration, resting solely on the authority of Satan, is echoed from the pulpits of Christendom and is received by the majority of mankind as readily as it was received by our first parents. The divine sentence "the soul that sinneth it shall die" is made to mean the soul that sinneth shall not surely die but live eternally. One cannot but stand perplexed at the strange infatuation which makes men so gullible concerning the words of Satan and so unbelieving in regard to the words of God.

The question which Ozell thus asks and the challenge he puts forward is relevant. When does the gift of eternal life begin? If we are souls, as opposed to having souls, then whatever we are is in the grave until such time that eternal life is given. When is that?

1 Cor 15:51-55 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[brakelite]

I stand corrected I did not consider sentence structure on this scripture. Thanks for pointing it out to me KC, I'm gonna check it out right now.

PS this might take awhile, so far the majority of the translations put the comma after "you" and so far 2 translations put it after "today". I'm checking some word studies that I have now.

Hi Jiggy. The original Greek has no punctuation whatsoever. Not only so, but the Greek letters are set against one another and from word to word without a gap. It was up to the translaters to discern where to place the punctuation: thus the punctuation is not inspired, and in the case re the quote of Jesus on the cross, they got it wrong.
Jesus did not enter paradise that day, nor did the thief. In fact, it was very unlikely that the thief even died that day. It was customary for those on crosses to be taken down on holy days as per the demands of the religious Jews. The following day was a high day thus the two thieves and Christ were to be taken down until after the yearly Sabbath passover was over. They were surprised Jesus was already dead, the thieves however had their legs broken that they couldn't escape. They were returned to the cross to die later.

 

[jiggyfly]

Hi Jiggy. The original Greek has no punctuation whatsoever. Not only so, but the Greek letters are set against one another and from word to word without a gap. It was up to the translaters to discern where to place the punctuation: thus the punctuation is not inspired, and in the case re the quote of Jesus on the cross, they got it wrong.
Jesus did not enter paradise that day, nor did the thief. In fact, it was very unlikely that the thief even died that day. It was customary for those on crosses to be taken down on holy days as per the demands of the religious Jews. The following day was a high day thus the two thieves and Christ were to be taken down until after the yearly Sabbath passover was over. They were surprised Jesus was already dead, the thieves however had their legs broken that they couldn't escape. They were returned to the cross to die later.

I understand that the Koine/Common Greek did not employ punctuation.

As far as the rest of your post, what is your source of info and is there scripture to support it?

 

[Kit Carson]

I think the lesson to be learned is that the words of God and of Jesus are the truth. It is us man who messes them up. The Gospels were written some time after the death and rise of Jesus.

The overall message or basic knowledge is clear and the bible has been sorted and copied and changed some over time.

From the stories of the resurrection being a bit different to the word this or the word that in where Jesus says all these things will come to pass in this generation. That is another place there is an error or something left out or added as the message of knowledge is that no one knows when these things will come to pass. So something happened there too . That one mistake has caused many to use the literal print to reject God.

We are also told that the first heaven and first earth will be destroyed and a new heaven and new earth will be born. So why would we go to a place that is to be destroyed?? The bible also indicates that there is conflict and things going on in heaven also, or was or .......well ya see.......it is beyond our knowledge and is simply not explained well in all the details.

But I know myself, and I know us, and we do make mistakes , so I am not at all surprised a few were made in the translations and organization of the words . It is a good thing I did not translate the bible or no one would understand it.

Kit