A reflection upon Ephesians 1:1-6

[Brother Paul]

Augustine,On Grace and Free Will

Chapter1

“With reference to those persons whoso preach and defend man's freewill, as boldly to deny, and endeavor to do away with, the grace of God which calls us to Him (like Pelagius), and delivers us from our evil deserts, and by which we obtain the good deserts which lead to everlasting life: we have already said a good deal in discussion, and committed it to writing, so far as the Lord has vouchsafed to enable us.


Butsince there are SOME persons whoso defend God's grace as to deny man's freewill, or who suppose that freewill is denied when grace is defended (likeCalvinists),I have determined to write somewhat on this point…

Chapter2

Now He has revealed to us, through His HolyScriptures, that there is in a man a free choice of will. But how He has revealed this I do not recount in human language, but in divine (meaning through scripture). There is, to begin with, the fact that God's precepts themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards.For they are given that no one might be able to plead the excuse of ignorance, as the Lord says concerning the Jews inthe gospel: If I had not come and spoken unto them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin…

Chapter3


Thereare, however, persons who attempt to find excuse for themselves even from God(saying all they do or did is God’s will). The Apostle James says to such: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts He any man. But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then, when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin,when it is finished, brings forth death. James 1:13-15 Solomon, too, in his book of Proverbs, has this answer for such as wish to find an excuse for themselves from God Himself: The folly of a man spoils his ways; but he blames God in his heart (we see this in militant Islam where even if they kill and torture or rape and then they say it was the will of Allah). Proverbs 19:3 Andi n the book of Ecclesiasticus we read: Say not, It is through the Lord that I fell away; for you ought not to do the things that He hates: nor say, He has caused me to err;f or He has no need of the sinful man… The Lord hates all abomination, and they that fear God love it not. He Himself made man from the beginning, and left him in the hand of His counsel. If you be willing, you shall keep His commandments, and perform true fidelity. He has set fire and water before you: stretch forth your hand unto whether you will….

Chapter4

What is the import of the fact that in so many passages God requires all His commandments to be kept and fulfilled? How does He make this requisition, if there is no freewill? What means the happy man, ofwhom the Psalmist says that his will has been the law of the Lord? Does he not clearly enough show that a man by his own will takes his stand in the law of God?



Then again, there are so many commandments which in some way are expressly adapted to the human will; for instance, there is, Be not overcome of evil, Romans 12:1 and others of similar import, such as, Be not like a horse or a mule, which have no understanding; and, Reject not the counsels of your mother; Proverbs 1:8 and, Be not wise in your own conceit; Proverbs 3:7 and, Despise not the chastening of the Lord; Proverbs 3:11 and, Forget not my law; Proverbs 3:1 and, Forbear not to do good to the poor; Proverbs 3:27 and, Devise not evil against your friend; Proverbs 3:29 and, Give no heed to a worthless woman; Proverbs 5:2 and, He is not inclined to understand how to do good; and, They refused to attend to my counsel; Proverbs 1:30 with numberless other passages of the inspired Scriptures of the Old Testament. And what do they all show us but the free choice of the human will? So, again, in the evangelical and apostolic books of the NewTestament what other lesson is taught us? As when it is said, Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth; Matthew 6:19 and, Fear not them which kill the body; Matthew 10:28 and, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself; Matthew 16:24 and again, Peace on earth to men of good will. Luke 2:14 So also that the Apostle Paul says: Let him do what he wills; he sins not if he marry. Nevertheless, he that stands steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but has power over his own will, and has so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, does well. 1 Corinthians 7:36-37 And so again, If I do this willingly, I have a reward; 1 Corinthians 9:17 whilein another passage he says, Be sober and righteous, and sin not; 1 Corinthians 15:34 , As you have a readiness to will, so also let there be a prompt performance; 2 Corinthians 8:11 then he remarks to Timothy about the younger widows, When they have begun to wax wanton against Christ,they choose to marry. So in another passage, All that will to live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution; 2 Timothy 3:12 while to Timothy himself he says, Neglect not the gift that is in you. 1 Timothy 4:14 Then to Philemon he addresses this explanation: That your benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but of your own will. Servants also he advises to obey their masters with a good will. Ephesians 6:7 In strict accordance with this, James says: Do not err, my beloved brethren . . . and have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ with respect to persons; and, Do not speak evil one of another. James 4:11 So also John in his Epistle writes, Do not love the world, 1 John 2:15andother things of the same import. Now wherever it is said, Do not do this, and Do not do that, and wherever there is any requirement in the divine admonitions for the work ofthe will to do anything, or to refrain from doing anything, there is at once a sufficient proof of freewill.


No man, therefore, when he sins, can in his heart blame God for it, but every man must impute the fault to himself. Nor does it detract at all from a man's own will when he performs any act in accordance with God.Indeed, a work is then to be pronounced a good one when a person does it willingly; then, too, may the reward of a good work be hoped for from Him concerning whom itis written, He shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:27”

[parentheses mine)

 

[complete]

'For God hath concluded them all in unbelief,
that he might have mercy upon all.'
(Rom 11:32)

Hello @Samson2020,

In Romans 11:32 God, through Paul, is explaining to the believing remnant of Israel, why only a remnant had been saved through the preaching of John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus Christ during the period covered by the gospels, and by the preaching of the Apostles during the approx. 40 years of the Acts of the Apostles. Romans is written at the end of that period.

So the word, 'all', refers to the Jew and Gentile who by God's, 'concluding', were all reckoned in, 'unbelief', that He might have mercy upon all. It does not mean that all will necessarily go on to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thereby receive the gift of life through believing in the all-sufficiency of His sacrifice on their behalf: For not all will believe.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Samson2020]

Salvation is always 100% God's choice not man's.

Agree 100%
And as it is Gods choice and it His will that all should be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth as stated in 1 Tim 2:3-4 then ALL will be.

We have the Lords prayer that states "THY will be done on earth as in heaven...." All of us have at some point prayed this prayer and we know that if we pray
according to His will we receive what we ask for. Right?
So are we asking for the salvation of all according to His will as expressed in 1 Tim 2:3-4
It sure would seem so.

 

[Samson2020]

So the word, 'all', refers to the Jew and Gentile who by God's, 'concluding', were all reckoned in, 'unbelief', that He might have mercy upon all. It does not mean that all will necessarily go on to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thereby receive the gift of life through believing in the all-sufficiency of His sacrifice on their behalf: For not all will believe.

Nice effort but the other translations simply state that God hath imprisoned all to disobedience so that He could have mercy on all.
We both know that this is true and just another way to state the opening half of Rom 5:18 All men were born into the condemnation, except Adam and Eve,
and Jesus. Adam and Eve got it when their disobedience brought forth that judgement. Jesus in the garden.
So it is more than obvious that Paul was not talking about those in that period but as it says ALL men, form Adam to the last.

My entire point has been that it is up to God to draw and reveal the Son to whom He has drawn. That said it is God that gives the gift of faith through grace
that one may believe in their heart, not just head faith.
Since He is the one who controls the destiny of all and He will have all to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth 1 Ti 2:3-4 then it is actually up to Him
to make it happen. And with God ALL things are possible.

I've never understood why the professing Christian has such disdain for the thought of an all inclusive salvation of man. You received it as a gift from the Father
what makes any of us so special that we should tell Him you can't do that for the others you made? Why pray tell?

 

[Samson2020]

So the word, 'all', refers to the Jew and Gentile who by God's, 'concluding', were all reckoned in, 'unbelief', that He might have mercy upon all

This is correct!

 

[Charlie24]

Nice effort but the other translations simply state that God hath imprisoned all to disobedience so that He could have mercy on all.
We both know that this is true and just another way to state the opening half of Rom 5:18 All men were born into the condemnation, except Adam and Eve,
and Jesus. Adam and Eve got it when their disobedience brought forth that judgement. Jesus in the garden.
So it is more than obvious that Paul was not talking about those in that period but as it says ALL men, form Adam to the last.

My entire point has been that it is up to God to draw and reveal the Son to whom He has drawn. That said it is God that gives the gift of faith through grace
that one may believe in their heart, not just head faith.
Since He is the one who controls the destiny of all and He will have all to be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth 1 Ti 2:3-4 then it is actually up to Him
to make it happen. And with God ALL things are possible.

I've never understood why the professing Christian has such disdain for the thought of an all inclusive salvation of man. You received it as a gift from the Father
what makes any of us so special that we should tell Him you can't do that for the others you made? Why pray tell?

God doesn't always get His way with man, Sam. It wasn't God's will that the Israelites spent 40 years wandering through the desert, They brought it on themselves through unbelief. Just another example of man's free will to obey or rebel against God, to accept Him or reject Him.

 

[Samson2020]

God doesn't always get His way with man, Sam. It wasn't God's will that the Israelites spent 40 years wandering through the desert, They brought it on themselves through unbelief. Just another example of man's free will to obey or rebel against God, to accept Him or reject Him.

Some day you may understand that what happened to them was for our benefit. What occurred in the physical to them is a spiritual allegory of what we are
to do once elected. We must possess the land(bodies) we live in and rid it of all worldly lusts(canaanites). They did not enter and possess the land for unbelief,
we too may wander in the wilderness of Organized Christianity if we do not continue to believe what we are shown and be sorted from the tares as God matures us.
Sanctification! Refuse to believe what He shows you and wander until you fall over dead having made little to no progress.
When you get that understanding then you will know that what happened to them was indeed a matter of Gods will. For He works all things according to the
counsel of His own will. Not a reaction to mans actions.

Is not the Red Sea crossing an allegory of what happens to you when elected, you are washed by the water and the (red) blood, and your enemies(Pharaoh) are
put behind you with God as your rear guard?

Was not the attempted sacrifice of Isaac an allegory of what God would eventually do in sacrificing His own Son?

In this day and age it is best to be alone with the HG and study immensely the word of God and let Him and Him alone tell you what it means for with man
it has been extremely misinterpreted and misunderstood. Satan has a 2000 yr head start on us so where we get our information is of utmost importance.
Leave men behind and seek the higher truth for yourself.

 

[B-A-C]

Is not the Red Sea crossing an allegory of what happens to you when elected, you are washed by the water and the (red) blood, and your enemies(Pharaoh) are
put behind you with God as your rear guard?

Let us hope not.

Heb 3:8; DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME, AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
Heb 3:9; WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me, AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
Heb 3:10; "THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS';
Heb 3:11; AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"

Heb 3:16; For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses?
Heb 3:17; And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18; And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?
Heb 3:19; So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Virtually no one that left Egypt made it to the promised land.

Heb 4:1; Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
Heb 4:2; For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
Heb 4:3; For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4; For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Heb 4:5; and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Heb 4:6; Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

 

[Samson2020]

Let us hope not.

Heb 3:8; DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME, AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
Heb 3:9; WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me, AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
Heb 3:10; "THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, 'THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS';
Heb 3:11; AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.'"

Heb 3:16; For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses?
Heb 3:17; And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18; And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?
Heb 3:19; So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Virtually no one that left Egypt made it to the promised land.

Heb 4:1; Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
Heb 4:2; For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
Heb 4:3; For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4; For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Heb 4:5; and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Heb 4:6; Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,

As I said its an allegory of your moment of being elected period. It has nothing to do with working out your own salvation. And all of your quotes have nothing
to do with the initial moment. Those things took place later. And as your quotes point out what happened to them is a warning to us who have been called
to continue to be sanctified through the word. Them it was a physical thing in not wanting to be instructed or believe God, For us it is a spiritual thing in maturity
that involves the same principles of being instructed and believing God but not for salvations sake for that has already happened, but rather for puritys sake.
We who have the hope of being like Jesus, for we shall see him as He is, are purify ourselves as John states in 1 Jo 3:1-3 But that occurs after you have actually
apprehended what you have been apprehended for. LIFE.
That doesn't come as understanding all at once when one receives the HG, it takes time, here a little, there a little, line upon line etc....

 

[Charlie24]

Some day you may understand that what happened to them was for our benefit. What occurred in the physical to them is a spiritual allegory of what we are
to do once elected. We must possess the land(bodies) we live in and rid it of all worldly lusts(canaanites). They did not enter and possess the land for unbelief,
we too may wander in the wilderness of Organized Christianity if we do not continue to believe what we are shown and be sorted from the tares as God matures us.
Sanctification! Refuse to believe what He shows you and wander until you fall over dead having made little to no progress.
When you get that understanding then you will know that what happened to them was indeed a matter of Gods will. For He works all things according to the
counsel of His own will. Not a reaction to mans actions.

Is not the Red Sea crossing an allegory of what happens to you when elected, you are washed by the water and the (red) blood, and your enemies(Pharaoh) are
put behind you with God as your rear guard?

Was not the attempted sacrifice of Isaac an allegory of what God would eventually do in sacrificing His own Son?

In this day and age it is best to be alone with the HG and study immensely the word of God and let Him and Him alone tell you what it means for with man
it has been extremely misinterpreted and misunderstood. Satan has a 2000 yr head start on us so where we get our information is of utmost importance.
Leave men behind and seek the higher truth for yourself.

The Scripture plainly says "it is not my will that any should perish" but you say it is His will.

I suppose you justify that statement through the UR, that all will be saved in the end.

Calvinist and Universalist, that's quite a combination.

 

[Samson2020]

The Scripture plainly says "it is not my will that any should perish" but you say it is His will.

I suppose you justify that statement through the UR, that all will be saved in the end.

Calvinist and Universalist, that's quite a combination.

They perished physically not spiritually.
They will be resurrected to begin a different outcome according to the Fathers timing.
In the flesh the Father kills and makes alive but the spirit that comes from him in you is the inheritor of life eternal therefore what ever happens in the flesh life or death is irrelevant simply because God is able to resurrect all to begin anew.
This isn’t a second chance for most as they never had a first chance, died prior to Jesus thus no HG and no faith to enter in.
The odd part of most Calvinist and other doctrinal sets is that they are partial truths, not everything they claim is true but some is true. Similar to Satans first lie just partial truth. This is enough of a reason to reject labeling as it binds one to the whole set of doctrinal beliefs, similar to Bill and Catholicism. He likes being a Catholic but does not hold their entire doctrinal system. I have no idea what Calvin universalists or most any religious group holds as statements of faith and it is irrelevant for I have been taught of the HG and had my share of being thrown out of those facilities for speaking the truth as He shoewed me. They do not desire the truth but rather to defend what their statements are. Thus they have become like the Hebrews in the wilderness wandering until they fall over dead. Does He still care for them yes. They just refuse for now further instruction further sanctification.
All in due time.
As grace will cover all sin.

 

[Samson2020]

What is the import of the fact that in so many passages God requires all His commandments to be kept and fulfilled? How does He make this requisition, if there is no freewill? What means the happy man, ofwhom the Psalmist says that his will has been the law of the Lord? Does he not clearly enough show that a man by his own will takes his stand in the law of God?

To start with the Law was never designed for any man under condemnation to be able to keep it. Acts 15:10 Now why therefore do ye tempt God to lay a yoke
upon the neck of the disciples, which neither we nor our fathers were able to bear? The Mosaic Law.
That said, a man could never attain true sinlessness through his own free will except He were born outside a carnal mind (Jesus)-The last Adam in that He (Adam)
was also made without a carnal mind but fell due to disobedience, Jesus did not obviously fall but conquered. He was only able as He was born without the
carnality the rest of us were born with. Rom 11:32
Jesus did however experience this mind in the garden at Gethsemane prior to His betrayal.

So I would ask your old book the question, did anyone really have a chance prior to the giving of the Holy Ghost to attain to the level God had foreordained
for them to attain to?
The answer would be no for the time had not yet come for the revealing of the Mystery.
Could they be righteous to a point? Sure but not the righteousness of God imparted to them as they were shut up under the Law. Gal 3:23
Point being even if they had free will to keep the law, which they couldn't due to carnality, they were still unaware of what God really had in mind to do when
the time was right.

Now He has revealed to us, through His HolyScriptures, that there is in a man a free choice of will. But how He has revealed this I do not recount in human language, but in divine (meaning through scripture). There is, to begin with, the fact that God's precepts themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards.

Like I said above the true reward wasn't even revealed and they were destined to fail as the One whom God had foreordained to be the Savior of the world
had not yet arrived on the scene. Was this due to mans free will or Gods will?

Thereare, however, persons who attempt to find excuse for themselves even from God(saying all they do or did is God’s will). The Apostle James says to such: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts He any man.

This is true, however; ask Job who truly destroyed him. It was God and He even takes the credit by saying to Satan why have you moved me to destroy him without cause.
Now we both know that it was Satan who was given the ability to do the destroying of Jobs life but yet God took credit for it.

No one is saying that God tempted any man, thats why Satan exists and is called the tempter Matt 4:3 Satan however does the Lords bidding as all things are of
God and He works all things(including Satan) according to the counsel of His own will. Eph 1:11

And agreed God cannot be tempted with His own creation (in this case evil)
Who created good and evil? God Isa 45:7

No man, therefore, when he sins, can in his heart blame God for it, but every man must impute the fault to himself.

Agreed but it is not God that did the tempting it was Satan, and anyone born under condemnation is sold under sin and cannot be found without it, except in
Christ Jesus by the design of God.
The failing, if you will, is not being able to overcome the Prince of the power of the air, who was placed here as our enemy by our Father to be overcome.
We fail even after we are renewed, but as time passes we grow stronger in the Lord and succeed at times as our spiritual strength/wisdom increases.
How many unregenerate persons could even believe that let alone understand it.

So lets take a look at Hitler and others of the like as this is why you have presented this to me I assume.

Jesus tells us that wars and rumors of wars is something that MUST NEEDS BE. Any idea why? And if a necessity who is in control of it happening?
Jesus' crucifixion was a necessity and it was God that brought it to bare as Jesus attests to as the Fathers will to drink that cup? So was it the Fathers will
for a murder of His Son to take place?
Is it the Fathers will for wars to take place?
Seems the Hebrew nation was given directive from God to destroy completely every man, woman, child, and beast in the Canaanite nations. And that was
His will as well. Even though they had received the commandment "Thou shalt NOT KILL."
So just exactly what is it that Hitler, Stalin, Mau, Khan, The Popes, Castro, Alexander, the Babylonians, the Assyrians and such have done that wasn't a necessity according to Gods will? Does He not work all things after the counsel of His own will, or just fix our mess ups?
Jesus died for the sin of the world. And with God sin is sin it doesn't come in degrees of wrong it's just sin. Murder is the same as a lie, adultery, covetousness,
and all of us have been partakers in/of it.
We have been declared righteous by the faith He has bestowed on us to believe that His Son paid the price for our sin and was resurrected from the dead for
He didn't deserve to die.
Who can say to whom the Lord will impute righteousness through the gifting of faith. Rom 4:8 Not my choice but His and His alone.

 

[Charlie24]

They perished physically not spiritually.
They will be resurrected to begin a different outcome according to the Fathers timing.
In the flesh the Father kills and makes alive but the spirit that comes from him in you is the inheritor of life eternal therefore what ever happens in the flesh life or death is irrelevant simply because God is able to resurrect all to begin anew.
This isn’t a second chance for most as they never had a first chance, died prior to Jesus thus no HG and no faith to enter in.
The odd part of most Calvinist and other doctrinal sets is that they are partial truths, not everything they claim is true but some is true. Similar to Satans first lie just partial truth. This is enough of a reason to reject labeling as it binds one to the whole set of doctrinal beliefs, similar to Bill and Catholicism. He likes being a Catholic but does not hold their entire doctrinal system. I have no idea what Calvin universalists or most any religious group holds as statements of faith and it is irrelevant for I have been taught of the HG and had my share of being thrown out of those facilities for speaking the truth as He shoewed me. They do not desire the truth but rather to defend what their statements are. Thus they have become like the Hebrews in the wilderness wandering until they fall over dead. Does He still care for them yes. They just refuse for now further instruction further sanctification.
All in due time.
As grace will cover all sin.

Grace cannot and will not "cover all sin." That's why God created a place called Hell/Lake of fire.

You know as well as I that there is a condition to be met for sin to be forgiven. That is repenting of your sin and trusting in what Christ did on the Cross and His resurrection for your salvation.

Most of the world will not repent of their sins and Grace will not cover those sins, this is a warning given in Scripture many times.

The Scripture clearly places these unrepentant sinners in Hell/Lake of Fire, and nowhere in Scripture will you find where they get out.

 

[Samson2020]

You know as well as I that there is a condition to be met for sin to be forgiven.

How then is salvation a gift? For as you say it is conditional on your part.

Most of the world will not repent of their sins and Grace will not cover those sins

Rom 5:20-21 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded grace did much more abound. That as sin hath reigned unto death,
even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Adam is the example of condemnation sin and death as all were brought to man through his disobedience. That changed when Jesus was crucified for all mens
sakes and now will grace reign unto eternal life for the same who have lived and died in a sin ruled world.

Does grace abound MORE than sin? Yes according to the above.
Sin had its day and it ended in death but death hath no power in Christ and the grace of God will see all enter into Christ and the life purchased by the Son.
Grace will reign unto eternal life. Through righteousness that is gifted righteousness you cannot earn.

I ask one question of you, Do you or have you ever done any of the things spoken of a true believer in Mark 16:17-18 ?
I would like to hear your testimony.

The Scripture clearly places these unrepentant sinners in Hell/Lake of Fire, and nowhere in Scripture will you find where they get out.

Hell is no more or less than the grave.
The lake of fire is what you live in/on now. Its reassembling in the second death will bring about a second crop of fruits unto God. It's just a lack of understanding
what is written for the colorful language hides the actuality.

 

[Charlie24]

How then is salvation a gift? For as you say it is conditional on your part.


Rom 5:20-21 Moreover the law entered, that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded grace did much more abound. That as sin hath reigned unto death,
even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Adam is the example of condemnation sin and death as all were brought to man through his disobedience. That changed when Jesus was crucified for all mens
sakes and now will grace reign unto eternal life for the same who have lived and died in a sin ruled world.

Does grace abound MORE than sin? Yes according to the above.
Sin had its day and it ended in death but death hath no power in Christ and the grace of God will see all enter into Christ and the life purchased by the Son.
Grace will reign unto eternal life. Through righteousness that is gifted righteousness you cannot earn.

I ask one question of you, Do you or have you ever done any of the things spoken of a true believer in Mark 16:17-18 ?
I would like to hear your testimony.


Hell is no more or less than the grave.
The lake of fire is what you live in/on now. Its reassembling in the second death will bring about a second crop of fruits unto God. It's just a lack of understanding
what is written for the colorful language hides the actuality.

The gift is "Grace" something we don't deserve. It's freely given to us through believing in and on Christ.

Believing is not a work as clearly shown by Paul. He places the gift of Grace as the opposite of works.

Romans 11:6

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

 

[Samson2020]

The gift is "Grace" something we don't deserve.

Your almost there. It is FAITH that is the gift given to you according to Gods grace. Grace is something we can't earn thus grace is not itself the gift but HOW we
receive the FAITH necessary to believe.

Without FAITH we cannot please God, not grace.
If you graced someone it would be with something, correct? No matter what it was the gracing was something given/done/said.

For BY GRACE are ye saved THROUGH FAITH, and that(Faith) is not of yourselves, it(faith) is the gift of God.
He is saying that by grace ye received faith to believe. Grace is not the gift, but how you received the gift.
Lets look at the same verse this way.
For BY GRACE are ye saved THROUGH FAITH, and that(grace) is not of yourselves it(grace) is the gift of God.

The "not of yourselves" should be the tell.
Your head faith is not something that will allow you to truly believe in your heart. This Faith must come from the Father as the instrument in which He
draws one to Jesus and makes clear the reality of the truth to your heart.

For with the heart a man believes unto salvation.

 

[Charlie24]

Your almost there. It is FAITH that is the gift given to you according to Gods grace. Grace is something we can't earn thus grace is not itself the gift but HOW we
receive the FAITH necessary to believe.

Without FAITH we cannot please God, not grace.
If you graced someone it would be with something, correct? No matter what it was the gracing was something given/done/said.

For BY GRACE are ye saved THROUGH FAITH, and that(Faith) is not of yourselves, it(faith) is the gift of God.
He is saying that by grace ye received faith to believe. Grace is not the gift, but how you received the gift.
Lets look at the same verse this way.
For BY GRACE are ye saved THROUGH FAITH, and that(grace) is not of yourselves it(grace) is the gift of God.

The "not of yourselves" should be the tell.
Your head faith is not something that will allow you to truly believe in your heart. This Faith must come from the Father as the instrument in which He
draws one to Jesus and makes clear the reality of the truth to your heart.

For with the heart a man believes unto salvation.

When Paul said, "for it is by Grace through faith that you are saved," the gift is Grace.

Faith is the means to receive the gift of Grace.

God also gives us the faith to believe if we respond favorably toward hearing the Gospel.

"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." Romans 10:17.

 

[Samson2020]

When Paul said, "for it is by Grace through faith that you are saved," the gift is Grace.

Faith is the means to receive the gift of Grace.

God also gives us the faith to believe if we respond favorably toward hearing the Gospel.

"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." Romans 10:17.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Jesus has said more than once that "No man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." And No man can come unto me except the Father
draw him.
Same thing, so salvation is by grace but through faith, so which comes first grace or faith?

If ye are saved by grace through faith then faith comes first as a gift that is granted according to grace.

The point is that God decides who the elect are not man. Salvation is entirely in Gods hands otherwise there wouldn't be an elect group.
We don't elect ourselves! As is witnessed by the above verses. That said who can be left out of Gods grace except by God?
Who can come to Jesus other than he whom the Father calls?

Still waiting on your answer to the Mark 16 question.

 

[Samson2020]

God also gives us the faith to believe if we respond favorably toward hearing the Gospel.

Gotta love that interjection of IF WE RESPOND FAVORABLY, is it then still grace if He's waiting on our favorable response?

And at least you did admit that the faith to believe is also something given by the Father. I'll accept that.

 

[Charlie24]

We will have to agree to disagree.

Jesus has said more than once that "No man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." And No man can come unto me except the Father
draw him.
Same thing, so salvation is by grace but through faith, so which comes first grace or faith?

If ye are saved by grace through faith then faith comes first as a gift that is granted according to grace.

The point is that God decides who the elect are not man. Salvation is entirely in Gods hands otherwise there wouldn't be an elect group.
We don't elect ourselves! As is witnessed by the above verses. That said who can be left out of Gods grace except by God?
Who can come to Jesus other than he whom the Father calls?

Still waiting on your answer to the Mark 16 question.

Don't you see it, Sam? The unbeliever is drawn by hearing the Gospel.

When you present the Gospel to someone, the death burial and resurrection of Christ, the Holy Spirit draws that person to faith in Christ in order to receive the gift of Grace that grants salvation. Man will respond to that draw by accepting or rejecting of his own free will.

Grace is a gift that no man deserves, we can't earn it, the only way to receive this free gift of Grace is through being drawn by the Spirit to faith in Christ.