Adam and Eve

[lentz]

Paul says in 1 Timothy 2:14, that the woman was deceived not Adam.
Firstly,Eve’s eyes weren’t opened until after Adam partook of the tree. Then were both their eyes opened . The commandment was given to Adam therefore it was his responsibility for the wife .
The woman was deceived by Satan,but Adam went in knowing. Adam knew it was wrong,he wasn’t deceived at all.
Though Eve partook of the tree,it wasn’t sin until Adam ate as well.

Have fun

 

[Beetow]

The so-called fallen nature is believed to be propagated by fathers. Oh? Then
whence did Eve obtain it?

She was already fully sentient and completely constructed from material taken from
Adam's body prior to the forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after
his wife was already in existence; then it was impossible for Adam to pass the fallen
nature to her by means of reproduction.

In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had something to
do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I seriously doubt it
because Eve was the first to eat the fruit, and when she did, nothing happened. She
remained just as comfortable in the buff as before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the
fruit that she began to feel indecent; so I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is
far more serious than the chemistry of that fruit.

Mr. Serpent is the logical source, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2) He has the power of
death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human
mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment that
Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it takes effect.
Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both immediately set to work
cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to cover up their pelvic areas.

FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she tasted the
forbidden fruit?

REPLY: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into the
world, they would come via a lone male's actions just as life and righteousness
would later be offered to the world via a lone male's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)

FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of the
womb?

REPLY: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm
guessing that for most of us it's in the womb. (Ps 51:5 & 58:3)

* I really have to hand it to the Serpent; he's very good at shifting blame away
from himself. For quite a few years now it's been traditional to believe fathers
propagate the fallen nature; when it's been the Serpent all along. Jesus' statement:
"You are of your father the Devil" wasn't idle slander; rather, it was 100% fact.
(John 8:44)

How he has managed to deceive so many people for so long a time I don't know,
but what's really ironic about it is that there are people behind pulpits, and chairing
whole Sunday school departments, helping him do it as unsuspecting accomplices;
which goes to show that if an idea is repeated often enough, widely enough, and
loud enough by people held in high enough esteem; pretty soon it's accepted by the
masses as fact without thought or question. (the Asch Conformity Phenomenon)

A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong;
Gives it a superficial appearance of being right.
(Thomas Paine)
_

 

[Curtis]

In the New-testament it tells that an unbelieving wife is sanctified by her believing husband, and an unbelieving husband is sanctified by his believing wife. Adam did not have to eat from the forbidden tree, but he choose to knowing it was wrong. Did Adam sin when he ate or did Adam sin when he refused to stop Eve from eating?

the scripture says…..

Therefore he that knoweth to good do and does not do it to him it is sin…..(James 4:17)

just a thought.

 

[Beetow]

.
● Gen 3:6e . . She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he
ate it.

The phrase "who was with her" has led some folks to suggest that Adam was
standing right there the whole time observing the entire incident; not saying
a word. (In my experience; that's a popular opinion among certain women
who seem to have a predilection for blaming men for their own mistakes.)

But the phrase could simply mean they were a cohabiting couple at the time,
viz: weren't split up living apart. For example: I've been with my wife 43
years without interruption though we often go our separate ways on errands
and appointments: vacations too, My wife likes to rendezvous with her sister
in the community of Santa Barbara California once a year for a week, viz:
she's been with me all this time, though not always at my side.

The Serpent is portrayed as a highly intelligent creature (Gen 3:1). Well; for
sure he was intuitively aware of the tried and true tactic "Divide and
Conquer" Catching the woman by herself away from her husband's oversight
was a sensible tactic.

The thing is: the Serpent was somehow aware the fruit posed no danger to
the woman; so if he could get her to try it, and she'd see for herself it was
safe to eat, then the Serpent would have the ally he needed to persuade the
man to do something contrary to his better judgment.

But I think Adam was at least cautious at first, and kept a wary eye on his
wife for some time waiting to see if she would get sick; and when she didn't,
he surely had to wonder if maybe he misunderstood God.

I think most husbands would sympathize with Adam. I mean: he was told by
a supposedly competent source that the forbidden tree was unfit for human
consumption. But here's your wife sitting right beside you happily munching
away and she's still healthy, lucid, and exhibiting no ill side effects. How is a
reasonable man supposed to argue with empirical evidence as good as that?

NOTE: 1Tim 2:14 is oftentimes used to allege that Adam wasn't tricked into
eating the fruit. But the trickery in that particular passage is relative to the
Serpent. In other words: Adam wasn't fooled by the Devil, instead, he was
made a fool by his wife.

FAQ: If God is so loving and so all-powerful, then why didn't He step in to
prevent the Serpent from manipulating Eve?

REPLY: No Comment.
_

 

[Curtis]

The phrase "who was with her" has led some folks to suggest that Adam was
standing right there the whole time observing the entire incident; not saying
a word. (In my experience; that's a popular opinion among certain women
who seem to have a predilection for blaming men for their own mistakes.)

As scripture says it was Eve who gave the fruit to her husband, suggesting he was right there with her.

 

[Beetow]

As scripture says it was Eve who gave the fruit to her husband, suggesting he was
right there with her.

I'm okay with scripture, I'm just not okay with your suggestion. Nevertheless;
you've a right to do your own thinking, so more power to you.
_

 

[Beetow]

FAQ: Did Jesus' virgin conception shield him from the original sin?

REPLY: Adam's disobedience isn't inherited, rather, it's merited. According to Rom
5:12-21 Adam's entire posterity was there with him in real time as joint principals
in the act.

FAQ: If that's true, then how can 1Pet 1:19 honestly say Jesus was a lamb without
blemish or spot?

REPLY: Jesus committed no sins of his own to answer for. (John 8:29, 2Cor 5:21,
Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)

FAQ: Was Adam's disobedience Hell-worthy?

REPLY: The proper retribution for that particular sin is mortality. In other words;
when folks pass away, they're done that one but they still have to answer for their
own sins at the great white throne event depicted by Rev 20:11-15.
_

 

[KerimF]

Sorry friends, I like to share with you what I know while I have no intention to convince anyone about anything.

I used to look for knowledge which could be useful to me in the least (scientific or else) without the need to please anyone else or protect anyone's interests. This is why I ended up be an independent student of Jesus since many decades ago (74-year-old now), besides being a private designer in electronics since after graduation till now.

If a kid asked his parents:
"Please tell me, how it was possible for me to exist among you?"
A wise loving parent would surely find, for his little smart kid, a suitable answer instead of the complete real one, right?
And when this kid will grow up, will he accuse his parents of being liars? I don’t think he will because he will also find himself doing the same with his future little children, if asked.

Similarly, the story of Adam and Eve was inspired from Heaven to the kids of humanity (our past ancestors). And it was an important story to introduce them to the idea of Creation, besides other imporatnt things that define life in the material world.

Now, after about 5 thousand years, do I need to hear the story of Adam and Eve to realize, for example, there is a Will/Power behind my existence and of the universe into which I was brought, for a certain period of time? Of course I don’t need, because I know that even the very simple things which I was able to design and build couldn’t exist without my will. So my crucial question wasn’t if this Supernatural Will/Power does exist or not. Instead, it was about the best image of this Will which I need to know and is related to my life/existence directly.

Jesus ‘only’, not anyone else, helped me know (via the Arabic Gospel which I had the chance to get when I was teen) the best image of this Will/Power I was looking for. Naturally, I also got from Him, the Living Word of Heaven (or God, if you like), the logical answers to all my important questions which are related to my own existence and the real world into which I was brought. In other words, I realized that Jesus is indeed my Divine Perfect Teacher about Life’s Reality, I was looking for.

Sorry, I recall that the way I see Jesus in my life hurts, to some extent, the feelings of many Christians who are supposed to just learn from Jesus and certain men (Prophets, Disciples and Saints... to name a few) how to worship the Heavenly Father (and Him, Jesus) in order to be saved by God’s Grace. In fact, my Muslims friends were also told that they will be saved just by worshipping/obeying Allah, as their Mohammad and other men told them how to do it.


On my side, I just used to live the Unconditional Love, as revealed by Jesus Christ, towards all others (good and evil) while trusting to no limit the One Loving Will/Power of my Father in Heaven (not incarnated) and Jesus (incarnated) who are unified, since before Creation, by the Divine Spirit of Love, the Holy Spirit... in every hard situation I had and will have to face.

So, it was impossible for me to live this way and for that long without the rather mysterious ways that the Holy Spirit did to defend me without my knowledge in these hard situations (some of them were real hard, likely beyond your imagination ). So, now, the only remaining question which is related to my existence, and I couldn’t find its logical answer yet is: Why Heaven insists to protect me and keep me alive? I am an ordinary old man who just had the chance to know, thanks to Jesus, how to feed his soul for eternity, nothing else.


Please don’t stop analyzing the story of Adam and Eve and forgive me for interrupting your various interesting discussions.

For instance, this Heavenly tale/story also introduced a very important natural fact/truth that was simply known to the kids of humanity as ‘the Original Sin’ that Jesus only is able to save humans from. Is our evolved knowledge and logical reasoning still at the level of our ancient kids of humanity (our far past ancestors)? If not, what could be the complete real story of this ‘Original Sin’? Only by knowing it, it becomes clear (based on reason, not faith) why Jesus came directly from Heaven (the Living Word of God) to save any human who feels the need in his life to be saved from it, speaking ‘practically’. But I hesitate to share it with you here since it will likely be the first time you will hear it. Therefore, it will likely disturb, to some extent, the inner peace of any loyal formal Christian who should hear and believe only what the men in charge of his Church or Denomination approve as being of his doctrine.

 

[Br. Bear]

@KerimF

Greetings,

Can you please tell me about the Arabic Gospel? As, is it a book?
Who wrote it?


Bless you ....><>

 

[KerimF]

@KerimF

Greetings,

Can you please tell me about the Arabic Gospel? As, is it a book?
Who wrote it?


Bless you ....><>

I was born in a Roman Catholic family. Naturally, when I was about 17, I bought an Arabic Gospel, printed by Vatican, in order to read it attentively.
You may be surprised to know that the reason for which I did this was to prove, once for all and for myself, that Jesus' teachings (which are supposed to be like the Church's ones) have nothing to do in my life. To my big surprise, I discovered that Jesus' teachings (yes, on the Catholic Gospel) are different from the teachings that I used to hear from my Priests (at school and Sunday's Masses) and even opposing some of them.

By the way, I didn't need to have faith in Jesus because I knew Him based on reason instead. Yes, I used to be a rational person since I was teen (this is why my favorite is Mathematics since school till now). I noticed that everything I was able to discover, with time, in my being and the real world, Jesus (on the Gospel) knew it already. And I was fortunate that I didn't need to think I am somehow a weird person since Jesus also knew already how I am.

 

[Beetow]

● Gen 2:18 . .The Lord God said: It's not good for Adam to be solitary; I will make
a fitting helper for him.

That is a curious statement considering that God had given His handiwork an
evaluation of "very good" back in Gen 1:31. Well; that evaluation was stated when
the job was all done. In this section, we're discovering what went on during the
sixth day before the job was all done.

Adam's construction came out exactly as God wished; which means that Adam's
creator deliberately made the man reliant upon a suitable companion right from the
very get-go; i.e. Eve wasn't a "fix" to address an unforeseen problem like the many
that plagued NASA during the Apollo program.

"fitting helper" is from two Hebrew words. "Fitting" is from a word that basically
means a counterpart and/or a mating part, e.g. left and right shoes and socks. The
word for "helper" basically pertains to aid

Note that aid isn't spelled with an "e" as in aide; so that Eve wasn't meant to be the
man's Girl Friday, rather; someone to strengthen him. In other words: woman's
true role is a supporting role rather than a leading role, ergo: strong domineering
women are out of sync with humanity's creator.

I suspect that Adam didn't really have it all that easy in his world, and that Eve's
companionship made his life a lot more tolerable and worth the living. The helper
that God made for Adam would be both his counterpart, and his crutch. In other
words: wives are really at their best when they strengthen their men to go out that
door and face the big, bad, mean world.

In making a statement like Gen 2:18; God made it very clear right from the
beginning that human beings were not intended to live a celibate life. If male
human life was packaged in a box of software, one of its system requirements
would be Female Companion.

Woman's potential for companionship is the primary reason that God made her--
not for her sensual appeal nor for her reproductive value; no, for a man's
companionship; which is commonly expressed by cordiality, friendliness, friendship,
goodwill, kindness, civility, concord, harmony, rapport, charity, generosity,
compassion, empathy, sympathy, chumminess, intimacy, devotion, and loyalty.

From all that, I think we can safely conclude that a woman who tears her man
down instead of building him up is a broken woman; i.e. maladjusted.

Now; before God introduced Adam to the flip side of his existence; He first gave
the man an opportunity to seek appropriate companionship from among the creatures
of the animal kingdom. The results were unsatisfactory; and no surprise there seeing
as how critters aren't equipped to relate with humans on a high enough level, viz: they
weren't created in the image of God.
_

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings KerimF

I was born in a Roman Catholic family. Naturally, when I was about 17, I bought an Arabic Gospel, printed by Vatican, in order to read it attentively.
You may be surprised to know that the reason for which I did this was to prove, once for all and for myself, that Jesus' teachings (which are supposed to be like the Church's ones) have nothing to do in my life. To my big surprise, I discovered that Jesus' teachings (yes, on the Catholic Gospel) are different from the teachings that I used to hear from my Priests (at school and Sunday's Masses) and even opposing some of them.

By the way, I didn't need to have faith in Jesus because I knew Him based on reason instead. Yes, I used to be a rational person since I was teen (this is why my favorite is Mathematics since school till now). I noticed that everything I was able to discover, with time, in my being and the real world, Jesus (on the Gospel) knew it already. And I was fortunate that I didn't need to think I am somehow a weird person since Jesus also knew already how I am.

Thank you for your reply.

Do you mind if I ask again about the Arabic Gospel?
I am not familiar with it.


Bless you ....><>

 

[KerimF]

Greetings KerimF



Thank you for your reply.

Do you mind if I ask again about the Arabic Gospel?
I am not familiar with it.


Bless you ....><>

About what exactly? I have also a Gospel written in French

Anyway, me too, I am not familiar with all versions of the English Gospel.

For instance, I see as a living miracle that, on all of these various versions (also written in other languages), the crucial natural truths which are revealed by Jesus Christ about the real world couldn't be hidden or deformed, even after 2000 years, while they oppose clearly the interests of the powerful rich families, if not ruling, in every period of time, anywhere in the world!

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings again,

About what exactly? I have also a Gospel written in French

Anyway, me too, I am not familiar with all versions of the English Gospel.

For instance, I see as a living miracle that, on all of these various versions (also written in other languages), the crucial natural truths which are revealed by Jesus Christ about the real world couldn't be hidden or deformed, even after 2000 years, while they oppose clearly the interests of the powerful rich families, if not ruling, in every period of time, anywhere in the world!

Thank you for your reply.

Do you speak Arabic and French and can you read both?
Languages are interesting to study and know. We tend to get stuck in the culture that we use language to communicate and think with.

With Jesus, Whoever He is (?) we have a heavenly language.

In your reply, you mention,

while they oppose clearly the interests of the powerful rich families, if not ruling, in every period of time, anywhere in the world!

Why did you feel a need to mention that in reply to my post?


Bless you ....><>

 

[KerimF]

Greetings again,



Thank you for your reply.

Do you speak Arabic and French and can you read both?
Languages are interesting to study and know. We tend to get stuck in the culture that we use language to communicate and think with.

With Jesus, Whoever He is (?) we have a heavenly language.

In your reply, you mention,

... while they oppose clearly the interests of the powerful rich families, if not ruling, in every period of time, anywhere in the world!

Why did you feel a need to mention that in reply to my post?


Bless you ....><>

I was born and live among people who speak Arabic.
My school was French (run by 'Les Freres Maristes').
My high studies (for MS) were done in English, at AUB (the American University of Beirut).

Please tell me, why did you say... with Jesus, Whoever He is? And yes, true love belongs to a Heavenly Language indeed.

By the way, even when I reply someone, I assume that my post should also address anyone who may access it.
So, I am sorry, for confusing you this time.
And the question is now:
Is what I wrote realistic or not? In other words, was Jesus somehow exaggerating in {Matthew 19:24}?
For example, does 'love your enemies' protect the interests of any powerful rich family in the world?

Truth be said, I know that I look really weird to many Christians around here (and elsewhere) because my relationship with my Father in Heaven and Jesus is about love and unlimited trust only while I try my best to live their love on earth, as it is in Heaven, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit in whatever I do. Therefore, my relationship is not about worship and obedience that a good Jew, a good Muslim and a good Pagan should do towards God (the One he is familiar to). In other words, I expect to be banned anytime much like Jesus was banned (also, in the name of justice/rules), but He was banned in a much much harder way.

Bless you...

 

[Beetow]

● Gen 2:19-20a . . And the Lord God formed out of the earth all the wild beasts and all
the birds of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and
whatever the man called each living creature, that would be its name. And the man
gave names to all the cattle and to the birds of the sky and to all the wild beasts;

I'm sure Adam loved animals; I mean look: he gave them all names; which is something
that people who make their living in animal husbandry try to avoid because the practice
can lead to attachments; thus making the situation very difficult when it's time for sale
and/or slaughter.

But as cute and cuddly as some critters are, they just don't have what it takes to be the
kind of companion that a man really needs.

● Gen 2:20b . . but for Adam no fitting helper was found.

I think that even to this day, were most normal people given a choice between human
companionship and that of a pet; they would opt for the human because people relate to
each other much better than they relate to critters; either wild or domesticated.

* I heard tell of a spinster who was once asked why she didn't marry. She replied: I have
a dog that lays around the house all day, a stove that smokes, and a bird that cusses.
What do I need a man for? (chuckle) Well, I must admit; she had a point.
_

 

[lentz]

Since we’re on that subject, wonder why the scriptures don’t say anything about Adams daughters.
Although Cains wife would have to be his sister.

 

[KerimF]

Since we’re on that subject, wonder why the scriptures don’t say anything about Adams daughters.
Although Cains wife would have to be his sister.

Hi All,

This reminds me when a very smart kid hears his father/mother telling him some instructive tales (though made for kids) starts to ask more questions about them.

Dear Lentz, I don't mean you are a kid, I just try to point out that tales made for kids (here the tale Adam & Eve, made by Heaven for the 'kids of humanity') give some answers while creating more questions.

Many thousand years ago, humans were much like the kids we were. And God (the Creator) knows that they couldn't bear hearing how humans, critters and the world are created as we know now (though not perfectly).
For example, how could I tell a kid that two living beings can be unified and be just one being only?
But, I guess, all here know what I mean.

I exist because two independent tiny living cells met and were able (as designed by God) to become just one living cell, my original living cell. And this cell had to be evolved (following various and very complex algorithms also pre-programmed by God, the designer) in a rather very fast way for about 9 months (this took millions of years on earth) to end up be the little human baby I was (born with the greatest weakness that a human may have, ignorance; known to the kids of humanity as the Original Sin). The forbidden tree of knowledge was simply a sign that early humans, our past ancestors (kids of humanity), were not ready yet to hear the real complete Truth about their existence. Then Jesus came/incarnated from Heaven in person to reveal everything about the Spiritual God's Realm of Love when humans were evolved enough to hear Him (no more kids of humanity).

Kerim
An independent student of Jesus Christ

 

[Bill Taylor]

Hi All,

This reminds me when a very smart kid hears his father/mother telling him some instructive tales (though made for kids) starts to ask more questions about them.

Dear Lentz, I don't mean you are a kid, I just try to point out that tales made for kids (here the tale Adam & Eve, made by Heaven for the 'kids of humanity') give some answers while creating more questions.

Many thousand years ago, humans were much like the kids we were. And God (the Creator) knows that they couldn't bear hearing how humans, critters and the world are created as we know now (though not perfectly).
For example, how could I tell a kid that two living beings can be unified and be just one being only?
But, I guess, all here know what I mean.

I exist because two independent tiny living cells met and were able (as designed by God) to become just one living cell, my original living cell. And this cell had to be evolved (following various and very complex algorithms also pre-programmed by God, the designer) in a rather very fast way for about 9 months (this took millions of years on earth) to end up be the little human baby I was (born with the greatest weakness that a human may have, ignorance; known to the kids of humanity as the Original Sin). The forbidden tree of knowledge was simply a sign that early humans, our past ancestors (kids of humanity), were not ready yet to hear the real complete Truth about their existence. Then Jesus came/incarnated from Heaven in person to reveal everything about the Spiritual God's Realm of Love when humans were evolved enough to hear Him (no more kids of humanity).

Kerim
An independent student of Jesus Christ

6000+ years later and a few of us are smart enough to take Yahova at His Word and we marry and live that perfect state of marital bliss. Most,,, even in a building they call The Church have not the faith that saves and run around like beheaded chickens figuring out what they want Yahova and Yashua to have meant.

 

[KerimF]

6000+ years later and a few of us are smart enough to take Yahova at His Word and we marry and live that perfect state of marital bliss. Most,,, even in a building they call The Church have not the faith that saves and run around like beheaded chickens figuring out what they want Yahova and Yashua to have meant.

Sorry, I am not smart enough to figure out your end/main point

What I know is that most humans around the world didn't need to hear the story of Adam & Eve (inspired from Heaven) to know how to make rules (religious and/or civil) on how a man can marry a woman (besides the rules on how to divorce her ). As you know, the ceremonies of marriage also differ greatly from one region to another.

This is why Jesus said about marriage:
"Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh."
He said, 'one flesh'. He didn't say they are one, as He (Jesus) and the Father are one (having One Will).
The reason is that marriage is an earthly contract, even atheists get married. A real marriage just needs a representative of a certain authority (religious or civil) to approve it and bless it (if religious). And, on the ocean or in the sky, the captain is also allowed to represent such authority when necessary.