Adam and Eve

[lentz]

Has anyone ever wondered how long they were in the garden before the fall?
We have a tendency to think they were created in the morning and sinned before lunch.
I feel they could have lived in innocent bliss for a maybe a million years. Scripture does not say.

 

[KerimF]

A tale is like a dream. It doesn't have to be limited by time and/or place.

 

[Curtis]

I didn't need to have faith in Jesus because I knew Him based on reason instead.

Col 2:8 Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

2Co 10:4 We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments.
2Co 10:5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[KerimF]

Col 2:8 Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.

2Co 10:4 We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments.
2Co 10:5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

If you see that living the Unconditional Love, as revealed by Jesus, towards all others, good and evil, is a sort of philosophy, you should avoid me and Jesus,

If you see that Jesus didn't bring us the knowledge about the Spiritual God's Realm of Love that no man can have, you can be sure that the truth you are looking for is not at Jesus.

If you see in Jesus an earthly king looking for followers and slaves to obey and glorify him, please try your best to please Jesus to avoid God's wrath (as in the Torah) and don't listen to me. I just love Him by trusting Him to no limit in whatever he created in the world. This is how everything in the world became clear to me (the fruit of applying Jesus' greatest advice in my life).

If you need to have just faith in Jesus because you couldn't know Him well as you know yourself, please don't lose your hope and faith, you still have the chance to know Him and our Father in Heaven someday, also the Holy Spirit, as I do.

 

[Beetow]

● Gen 2:21a-22a . . So the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon the man; and, while
he slept, He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that spot. And the Lord
God fashioned the rib that He had taken from the man into a woman;

** This is the only two places in the entire Old Testament were the Hebrew word is
translated to represent a skeletal bone. In the twenty-nine other places it's
translated "side"

The most important thing to note in that passage is that Eve couldn't claim herself
unrelated to Adam; not when she was cut from the very same cloth, so to speak.

Taking into consideration that Eve was constructed with material taken from
Adam's body; then any and all progeny produced by Eve's body, whether virgin
conceived or naturally conceived, would consist of Adam's body, i.e. they would be
his progeny just as much as Eve's if any part of her body was in any way at all
involved in their conception.
_

 

[Bill Taylor]

Sorry, I am not smart enough to figure out your end/main point

What I know is that most humans around the world didn't need to hear the story of Adam & Eve (inspired from Heaven) to know how to make rules (religious and/or civil) on how a man can marry a woman (besides the rules on how to divorce her ). As you know, the ceremonies of marriage also differ greatly from one region to another.

This is why Jesus said about marriage:
"Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh."
He said, 'one flesh'. He didn't say they are one, as He (Jesus) and the Father are one (having One Will).
The reason is that marriage is an earthly contract, even atheists get married. A real marriage just needs a representative of a certain authority (religious or civil) to approve it and bless it (if religious). And, on the ocean or in the sky, the captain is also allowed to represent such authority when necessary.

You are free to believe anything that floats your boat but Yahova created marriage and except you find faith in Yashua and confess your sin nature you are eternally lost.

 

[Beetow]

● Gen 2:22b . . and He introduced her to the man.

Why wasn't Eve given an opportunity to fit in with the animal kingdom before
introducing her to Adam? Well, I think it's because men can make do with a hound
dog and/or a soccer ball named Wilson if they have to; but normal women, as a
rule, can't.

Men and Women share a lot of similarities; but the resolve to go it solo, to be a
rugged individual, is not one of them. There are exceptions, of course; but as a
rule, women do not care to live alone and unloved in the world. It's curious, but
when we think of hermits; our minds typically think of them as male because
female hermits just seem so contrary to nature.

● Gen 2:23a . .Then the man said: This one at last is bone of my bones and flesh of
my flesh.

Adam's remark later became a useful expression, e.g. after hearing Jacob's tale; his
uncle Laban concluded that they had quite a bit in common. (Gen 29:14)

Eve's primary purpose in life was to be her man's best friend; and that is precisely
why God made women: to be their husband's buddy. Therefore wives who aren't
their husband's buddy are seriously maladjusted; and can only be accepted as
cheap goods rather than top-of-the-line quality. Married men shackled to a
maladjusted woman aren't really in a marriage; they're in a perpetual cold war.

The one who designed a man said it is not good for a man to live alone. And if it's
not good for a man to live alone, then it goes without saying that it's not good for a
woman either. If men are supposed to be happier with a woman, then women
should be happier with a man. In other words: mankind's designer didn't intend
men and women to function independently of each other. They were created to be
together; as couples.

So Adam saw in Eve a very agreeable counterpart-- a blood relative who was just
as human as himself; and one who could truly relate to him; something no other
creature ever yet has been able to do.
_

 

[KerimF]

You are free to believe anything that floats your boat but Yahova created marriage and except you find faith in Yashua and confess your sin nature you are eternally lost.

Please tell me, did Yahova created divorce too?

About my sin nature, it is actually the robotic nature of my living mortal flesh (which is supposed to be guided by its various instincts, also preprogrammed by God as it is the case of all critters).
Therefore, if I couldn't oppose my robotic nature by living God's unconditional Love, on earth as it is in heaven, towards all others, good and evil, I will, as you said, be eternally lost.

 

[Beetow]

● Matt 6:33 . . But seek first . . . . His righteousness,

The righteousness of God is humanly impossible to obtain because He's set the bar
too high.

● Rom 3:23 . . For all . . . come short of the glory of God.

In other words: God has made His own personal sinless perfection the standard by
which everyone is evaluated. Obviously then; no one among the Jews or the
Gentiles-- except for Christ --has ever, nor will ever, measure up; not even the
holiest people that one can imagine, e.g. Noah, Daniel, or Job; and those were
some very righteous guys. (Ezek 14:12-20)

The thing is: Christ's crucifixion and resurrection satisfies justice for people's sins,
and gives them a rating of innocence and exoneration that they could never in a
million years attain on their own. But if the plan of salvation were to be wrapped at
that point, they would still be short of the glory of God, viz: the ultimate goal of
salvation is God's own personal sinless perfection which, again, is something that
people could never in a million years attain on their own.

Now with justice satisfied and out of the way by means of Christ's crucifixion and
resurrection; the supreme being is at liberty to become extremely benevolent with
a remarkable act of God that when fully completed will equip folks with a personal
sinless perfection comparable to His own.

● 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has given us everything we need for life and
godliness through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and
goodness. Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises, so
that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption in the world caused by evil desires. (cf. Ezek 36:24-27)

I think it can be agreed without debating that the divine nature is a whole lots
better to work with than the human nature in matters pertaining to sinless
perfection because even at its best, the human nature is corrupt; which is translated
from a Greek word basically meaning decayed, i.e. spoiled, as in gone bad like when
raw meat is left out for too long. Decay can be stopped but it can't be reversed, and
therein is a serious problem with the human nature: it's too far gone. Hence Jesus'
statement:

"Do not be surprised that I said you must be born again". (John 3:7)
_

 

[Beetow]

Therefore, if I couldn't oppose my robotic nature by living God's unconditional Love,
on earth as it is in heaven, towards all others, good and evil, I will, as you said, be
eternally lost.

When I was a young guy coming of age, it occurred to me that if I were as naturally
pleasing to God as His son Jesus always is, then it would be very easy to attain to
Heaven, and to stay in Heaven, without fear of being kicked out: that would be the
cat's meow.

● John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father has not left me alone; for I
do always those things that please Him.

I was very surprised, and excited, upon discovering that something very similar to
the thing I wished for is contained in a promise that God made to Moses' people.

● Ezek 36:24-27 . . I will gather you up from all the nations and bring you home
again to your land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean.
Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. And I will give
you a new heart with new and right desires, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will
take out your stony heart of sin and give you a new, obedient heart. And I will put
My spirit in you so you will obey My laws and do whatever I command.
_

 

[Beetow]

While the man and the woman were still in the garden-- prior to their eviction -
God gave them a blessing that goes like this:

"God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply" (Gen 1:28)

Some interpret that verse to be an edict requiring married people to have children;
and that they have no business getting married for any other reason. But the
wording is so obviously a blessing rather than a law.

It's always best to regard blessings as benefits, approval, and/or empowerment
unless clearly indicated otherwise. Some blessings have to be merited (e.g. Deut
28:1-13) but not this one. It was neither requested nor was it earned-- it was freely
given without any strings attached and nothing asked in return.

Without the empowerment of fertility, Man would be just as sterile as a soup spoon.
So it was a very essential blessing. And a very interesting blessing it is because the
blessing of fertility empowers living things to pass their own kind of life on to a next
generation. God quit creating after six days. So unless creatures were enabled to
reproduce, all would soon die out and become quite extinct in a very short time.

Libido therefore, is an essential element of the blessing of fertility. God intended for
His creatures to reproduce; and to ensure that they did, He wired them all with an
interest in the opposite sex of their own kind rather than instilling within them a
sense of duty.

It isn't necessary to cajole creatures to mate; no, they will do so on their own,
propelled by built-in sensual proclivities and predilections. Had libido not been
included in the blessing, human life would've become an endangered species within
just a few generations. Anybody familiar with the birds and bees understands very
well that allure and attraction are crucial to reproduction.

Bear with me while I jump ahead to the New Testament wherein Jesus said:

"You have heard that it was said: You shall not commit adultery. But I say to you,
that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with
her already in his heart." (Matt 5:27-28)

Adultery is roughly defined as consensual intamacy with someone other than your
spouse. In other words: at least one of the lovers has to be married before it counts
as adultery. And in order to fulfill Jesus' saying, the lusting person has to be not
just wanting to sleep with that other person, but has to be scheming to do so
because the Greek word translated "lust" means to set one's heart upon something.

For example Paul said:

"Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he
desires a noble task." (1Tim 3:1)

The Greek word translated "desires" is the same word for lust in Matt 5:27-28.

So: is that passage saying I can't look across that street at my neighbor's buxom
young wife and entertain fantasies about her? NO, not all; it doesn't become sin
until I start hatching a plan to make my fantasies happen.

As an illustration: in the movie "The Bridges Of Madison County" there's a precise
moment when a married Francesca Johnson makes a definite decision to initiate an
affair with free-lance photographer Robert Kincaid. Francesca was okay with Robert
up till the moment of her decision; but from that moment on, Mrs. Johnson was an
adulteress before she and Robert even slept together because it was in her heart to
make it happen, i.e. sleeping with Robert was her full intention of their association.

Now that we've illuminated the real meaning of Jesus' words, we are better
prepared to illuminate the 10th of the Ten Commandments; which says:

"You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s
wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor
anything that is your neighbor’s." (Ex 20:15)

In other words; keep your pea-pickin' paws off the merchandise and don't even
think about it; if you get my drift.

FAQ: Why is it so natural to attach guilt feelings to our libido?

REPLY: It wasn't always that way.

"They were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed." (Gen 2:25)

Then Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, and their perception of decency became
remarkably altered; especially relative to their pelvic areas. (Gen 3:7)
_

 

[KerimF]

When I was a young guy coming of age, it occurred to me that if I were as naturally
pleasing to God as His son Jesus always is, then it would be very easy to attain to
Heaven, and to stay in Heaven, without fear of being kicked out: that would be the
cat's meow.

● John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father has not left me alone; for I
do always those things that please Him.

I was very surprised, and excited, upon discovering that something very similar to
the thing I wished for is contained in a promise that God made to Moses' people.

● Ezek 36:24-27 . . I will gather you up from all the nations and bring you home
again to your land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean.
Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. And I will give
you a new heart with new and right desires, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will
take out your stony heart of sin and give you a new, obedient heart. And I will put
My spirit in you so you will obey My laws and do whatever I command.
_

It happens that, for many reasons, we understand what Jesus says on the same Gospel differently.

I focus my readings on Jesus' sayings and life only after I started reading the Gospel when I was 17 till now.

On your side, you used to believe, as many others do, that Jesus is not enough to know God, and for which purpose we are created. So, you feel the need to read, as possible, the entire Bible (the OT and the NT). For instance, my uncle was a Catholic priest. He also had to study the OT for about 6 years. Then He studied Jesus' life (the 4 Gospels) for about 3 months only. He studied the remaining part of the NT for about 9 months. In other words, the men in charge of the Church don’t see in Jesus a genuine source of any interesting knowledge though they agree He is 'The Living Word of God’. They believe that the most important knowledge that their Christian believers should have, is provided by certain men inspired from Heaven.

While I read Jesus, I see myself with Him. For example, He used to select the right sort of teachings in each situation He talked. He knew in advance that, on one side, He needs to address Jews of His time and, on the other side, to address the entire world at all times (as addressing me, after 2000 years). With me, He just talks of what I need to know about God's Love. With Jews, He had to do miracles to get their attention and remind them of what their Prophets told them about Him. Naturally, the kind of parables, He gave, had to be also different. To Jews, they were about God, the Supreme King. To me, they are of whatever could be related to God’s Love.


I like to add. Words, as the Idols made by stones, are made by men. It happens I knew Jesus, my Heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit in spirit only and not because of any specific words, said holy or not.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Please tell me, did Yahova created divorce too?

About my sin nature, it is actually the robotic nature of my living mortal flesh (which is supposed to be guided by its various instincts, also preprogrammed by God as it is the case of all critters).
Therefore, if I couldn't oppose my robotic nature by living God's unconditional Love, on earth as it is in heaven, towards all others, good and evil, I will, as you said, be eternally lost.

Assuming you are a man, that's not true. Yahova permitted divorce because of man's stubborn nature. Your sinful nature is not robotic but is inherited from our first father, Adam, as through obedience to our Heavenly Father is overcomable.

Your conclusion is, however, correct.