Are some people predestined for hell no matter what they do.

[FrankDSegura]

Are some people destined for Hell no matter what they do?
Maybe they Blasphemied the Holy spirit? Or thought some thing very bad sacrilegious, or something.
Can these sins be repented of?
What are the people who are destined for darkness?-- unbelievers, haters of God almighty, or people who sin after receiving the Holy spirit?
Who exactly are they
What is the Blasphemy of the Holy spirit?

 

[Brother Paul]

If this means that God created them specifically to do abominable things and be sent to hell then NO (though strict Calvinists would disagree).

 

[Sue D.]

If this means that God created them specifically to do abominable things and be sent to hell then NO (though strict Calvinists would disagree).

Your comment about a strict Calvinist is probably true. Predistination / foreknowledge. It's In Scripture but what does it Really mean in it's context. The 'foreknowledge' part is easy. Only God Himself knows at the very beginning. But the predistination thing. God has chosen to Not tell us that. He wants our obedience. 'We' don't save anyone -- the Holy Spirit Does. We Can pray with another person -- not For them -- but we Can listen To them as they establish their own relationship with God through that prayer. And we Can rejoice With them After they've prayed and we can see their newfound salvation in their eyes / their actions.


but on the flip side -- God would that All would repent and come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. But God is also omniscient = has All knowledge about Everything. He created everyone and knows all -- But God is the Only One With that knowledge. He tells US to share the Gospel of salvation with All who will listen -- no one can be Forced to accept Christ Or to reject Him.

There have been people born who become horrible criminals and 'we' would assume they'd end up in hell. BUT someone comes to them in prison ministry and they accept Christ as Savior. So -- that horrible criminal Will be in heaven.

On the Flip side -- the little old lady who's been a wonderful Sunday School teacher for years -- has done all those wonderful good things all her life. But She has never accepted Jesus Christ as her personal Savior. so -- oh my -- She ends up in hell. But Why? Because all the good things she did -- did not earn her passage to heaven. But no one told her that -- or maybe someone Did but she wouldn't listen. She was determined to do 'it' Her way.

Anyone who is being convicted of a sin they've committed Can go to God in prayer through Jesus Christ ask forgiveness and they Will Be forgiven.

 

[KingJ]

Are some people destined for Hell no matter what they do?
Maybe they Blasphemied the Holy spirit? Or thought some thing very bad sacrilegious, or something.
Can these sins be repented of?
What are the people who are destined for darkness?-- unbelievers, haters of God almighty, or people who sin after receiving the Holy spirit?
Who exactly are they
What is the Blasphemy of the Holy spirit?

Nobody is born destined for hell. That would be partiality by God. God is impartial Acts 10:34. He is righteous in ALL His ways Psalm 145:17. There is no darkness in Him AT ALL 1 John 1:5.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is rejecting Jesus. The Holy Spirit is here to teach us about Jesus, not Himself. So, you cannot blaspheme or reject the ''person'' of the Holy Spirit. Only what He is here trying to do. IE Represent Jesus. John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

It is much like those cities that rejected the disciples in the early days. Think of Nineveh. What would there fate be if they threw Jonah out the city?

 

[KingJ]

But the predistination thing. God has chosen to Not tell us that. He wants our obedience.

Oh my Sue. When will you grasp that God is not ''''secretly wicked''''. You do know you are espousing that? Just shocking.

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- what's with this '"God is not "secretly wicked" thing.' that you've come up with out of my comment.?

My entire comment was that I do Not especially understand what 'predestined / predestination ' Means. That is what I just looked up. Romans 8:29 - 30 And Ephesians 1:5 and 11. And there's a good article by 'gotquestions.org'

On the One hand God is the Only One who Does know who will or who won't accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. But we Also are told that God IS sovereign -- He has The eternal plan for this universe cause He Did create it.

And, apparently He Does pick those who Will accept the blood of Christ. And the Holy Spirit does the drawing of us to Himself. But He IS the Only one who knows who He Has chosen. So -- He has chosen to Not tell 'mankind' who He has chosen as His Elect. We ARE told to share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen. God Does call missionaries both home and foreign to spread His Gospel. So -- are 'we' doing that? Or are 'we' complaining because 'we' don't like how God does things.

An example in the article I was reading. Suppose there was a man with a handful of money and there was a huge crowd of people around him. He was giving money to various individual of his own choosing. When he was out of money, he stopped giving it out. The thing about all those people is that all have in their basic nature -- the ability for both good and bad. So the people He gives the money to are happy to be receiving it -- the others ? how do They react? Are they disappointed or 'okay' with it. Well - it Was a Gift they had not earned or deserved in any way. So they are thankful For the gift and take it. The 'others'? Well -- That is in God's hands. Are 'they' going to suffer for ever in hell? because they didn't accept the gift that they never were offered? Well -- God ALSO knows what their lives would have been with Or without it. MAYBE -- Apparently 'they' are the on'es who - upon having the Gospel shared with them , would have rejected it.

Most of what I was sharing 'we' aren't given that knowledge Of. WE would have Everyone going to heaven for eternity. However -- there Are those who flat do not Want to be spared punishment for their sins. I've come across some. They accept the fact of their own sins and Don't want anyone but themselves To pay for their sins. And if that means eternal hell waiting for them, so be it. They were making their own personal choice To go to hell.

So -- does all of this mean that God is secretly wicked? No -- it Does mean that God Is God. AND 'we' are Not given the knowledge as to who God's elect are -- We are told to go and evangelize and disciple those who Do accept.

AND as 'we' feel convicted by the Holy Spirit -- 'we' do need to repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior And as the Holy Spirit convicts us of 'stuff' we do in the process of living daily life As a born-again believer -- take time To acknowledge that and ask forgiveness. We won't loose our salvation if we Don't , but we Will have that relationship Strengthened. Kind of like a man and woman coming together for marriage -- everything between them Is wonderful. But they are bound to have disagreements occasionally -- so - rather than have ill feelings exist between them -- they apologize for Whatever and come back to that good close feeling they had. And their relationship could actually get Closer as a result.

Well -- you Do have a tendency to find some of my comments "just shocking" -- Well -- the Big decision for each person -- what are 'we' personally doing with God. Are 'we' obeying Him by sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen? God won't make a mistake and 'save' the wrong people or oops forget someone who is supposed to Be saved.

 

[Brother Paul]

@KingJ -- what's with this '"God is not "secretly wicked" thing.' that you've come up with out of my comment.?

My entire comment was that I do Not especially understand what 'predestined / predestination ' Means. That is what I just looked up. Romans 8:29 - 30 And Ephesians 1:5 and 11. And there's a good article by 'gotquestions.org'

On the One hand God is the Only One who Does know who will or who won't accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. But we Also are told that God IS sovereign -- He has The eternal plan for this universe cause He Did create it.

And, apparently He Does pick those who Will accept the blood of Christ. And the Holy Spirit does the drawing of us to Himself. But He IS the Only one who knows who He Has chosen. So -- He has chosen to Not tell 'mankind' who He has chosen as His Elect. We ARE told to share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen. God Does call missionaries both home and foreign to spread His Gospel. So -- are 'we' doing that? Or are 'we' complaining because 'we' don't like how God does things.

An example in the article I was reading. Suppose there was a man with a handful of money and there was a huge crowd of people around him. He was giving money to various individual of his own choosing. When he was out of money, he stopped giving it out. The thing about all those people is that all have in their basic nature -- the ability for both good and bad. So the people He gives the money to are happy to be receiving it -- the others ? how do They react? Are they disappointed or 'okay' with it. Well - it Was a Gift they had not earned or deserved in any way. So they are thankful For the gift and take it. The 'others'? Well -- That is in God's hands. Are 'they' going to suffer for ever in hell? because they didn't accept the gift that they never were offered? Well -- God ALSO knows what their lives would have been with Or without it. MAYBE -- Apparently 'they' are the on'es who - upon having the Gospel shared with them , would have rejected it.

Most of what I was sharing 'we' aren't given that knowledge Of. WE would have Everyone going to heaven for eternity. However -- there Are those who flat do not Want to be spared punishment for their sins. I've come across some. They accept the fact of their own sins and Don't want anyone but themselves To pay for their sins. And if that means eternal hell waiting for them, so be it. They were making their own personal choice To go to hell.

So -- does all of this mean that God is secretly wicked? No -- it Does mean that God Is God. AND 'we' are Not given the knowledge as to who God's elect are -- We are told to go and evangelize and disciple those who Do accept.

AND as 'we' feel convicted by the Holy Spirit -- 'we' do need to repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior And as the Holy Spirit convicts us of 'stuff' we do in the process of living daily life As a born-again believer -- take time To acknowledge that and ask forgiveness. We won't loose our salvation if we Don't , but we Will have that relationship Strengthened. Kind of like a man and woman coming together for marriage -- everything between them Is wonderful. But they are bound to have disagreements occasionally -- so - rather than have ill feelings exist between them -- they apologize for Whatever and come back to that good close feeling they had. And their relationship could actually get Closer as a result.

Well -- you Do have a tendency to find some of my comments "just shocking" -- Well -- the Big decision for each person -- what are 'we' personally doing with God. Are 'we' obeying Him by sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen? God won't make a mistake and 'save' the wrong people or oops forget someone who is supposed to Be saved.

Amen, sis...And anyone is equally free to receive His gift, but alas all will not. God wills that all men everywhere will repent (change their mind) and be saved but only to those that receive Him will He give the power (or right in Aramaic) to become the children of God. He foreknows all who will receive Christ and all who will not. Those who will not are those who know God and without excuse exchange the glory of God for a lie. They decide to disregard God and become lord of their own life doing what is right in their own eyes.

 

[Sue D.]

@Brother Paul -- the last part of your response -- 'those who know God and without excuse exchange of the glory of God for a lie' sounds a Lot like Romans 1: 24 - 26 regarding homosexuality. Is that just coincidence on your part? or what you intended to suggest? Am I misunderstanding your comment? We agree on the rest of it.

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ -- what's with this '"God is not "secretly wicked" thing.' that you've come up with out of my comment.?

Partiality is wicked. Please stop implying He is partial. Remove any hint of it from your statements.

My entire comment was that I do Not especially understand what 'predestined / predestination ' Means.

You correctly stated that you have no idea what predestination means.

Now, you contradict yourself by espousing that you do grasp predestination in terms of His sovereignty.

On the One hand God is the Only One who Does know who will or who won't accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. But we Also are told that God IS sovereign -- He has The eternal plan for this universe cause He Did create it. And, apparently He Does pick those who Will accept the blood of Christ. And the Holy Spirit does the drawing of us to Himself. But He IS the Only one who knows who He Has chosen. So -- He has chosen to Not tell 'mankind' who He has chosen as His Elect. We ARE told to share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen. God Does call missionaries both home and foreign to spread His Gospel. So -- are 'we' doing that? Or are 'we' complaining because 'we' don't like how God does things.

You know for a fact that God knows who will and who won't accept Jesus? Do you know what God was doing before He made humans and angels?

You define God off of one scripture. You arrive at the conclusion that God does know / is partial off of ''He is sovereign''.

Partiality is WICKED. There is no way to defend anyone as ''good'' if they are a respecter of persons / partial. God is good Psalm 136:1. God is as good as He is omniscient. They exist at the same time. Which means we should surely consider His goodness when we see evil related to omniscient assumptions. IE Omniscience can be limited. Have self imposed restrictions.

We need to consider all scripture defining God so as to not miss-represent Him on a matter like this. God is no respecter of person Acts 10:34. IE God is impartial. How impartial is He? 100% impartial as He is righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17 and a God with no darkness in Him at all 1 John 1:5.

 

[KingJ]

An example in the article I was reading. Suppose there was a man with a handful of money and there was a huge crowd of people around him. He was giving money to various individual of his own choosing. When he was out of money, he stopped giving it out. The thing about all those people is that all have in their basic nature -- the ability for both good and bad. So the people He gives the money to are happy to be receiving it -- the others ? how do They react? Are they disappointed or 'okay' with it. Well - it Was a Gift they had not earned or deserved in any way. So they are thankful For the gift and take it. The 'others'? Well -- That is in God's hands. Are 'they' going to suffer for ever in hell? because they didn't accept the gift that they never were offered? Well -- God ALSO knows what their lives would have been with Or without it. MAYBE -- Apparently 'they' are the on'es who - upon having the Gospel shared with them , would have rejected it.

You are now contradicting yourself. You stated with certainty that God ''knows''. Why would He give honey to those He knows won't accept?

Most of what I was sharing 'we' aren't given that knowledge Of. WE would have Everyone going to heaven for eternity.

We are given that knowledge. God has nothing to hide. He has given us crystal clear definitions of Himself. God would also have all go to heaven 1 Tim 2:4. Meditate on that truth!

However -- there Are those who flat do not Want to be spared punishment for their sins. I've come across some. They accept the fact of their own sins and Don't want anyone but themselves To pay for their sins. And if that means eternal hell waiting for them, so be it. They were making their own personal choice To go to hell.

Nobody wants to suffer for their sins. They do not want to repent of their sins. They love the darkness John 3:19.

So -- does all of this mean that God is secretly wicked? No -- it Does mean that God Is God.

This is just shocking Sue. ''God is not wicked because He is God?'' Seriously?

God is not wicked because He is not wicked. 1 John 1:5 God is light with no darkness in Him at ALL. Psalm 145:17 God is righteous in ALL His ways.

 

[KingJ]

AND 'we' are Not given the knowledge as to who God's elect are -- We are told to go and evangelize and disciple those who Do accept.

We are TOLD that the WHOMSOEVER will accept will be saved in John 3:16. You are espousing that God knows the whomsoever, IE God is a liar. The whomsoever is a lie. John 3:16 should read, those destined to be saved will be saved. That is Calvinism 101.

AND as 'we' feel convicted by the Holy Spirit -- 'we' do need to repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior And as the Holy Spirit convicts us of 'stuff' we do in the process of living daily life As a born-again believer -- take time To acknowledge that and ask forgiveness. We won't loose our salvation if we Don't , but we Will have that relationship Strengthened. Kind of like a man and woman coming together for marriage -- everything between them Is wonderful. But they are bound to have disagreements occasionally -- so - rather than have ill feelings exist between them -- they apologize for Whatever and come back to that good close feeling they had. And their relationship could actually get Closer as a result.

Not sure what you trying to say. I would have expected you to compare God to a wicked person who has an arranged marriage.

Well -- you Do have a tendency to find some of my comments "just shocking" -- Well -- the Big decision for each person -- what are 'we' personally doing with God. Are 'we' obeying Him by sharing the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen? God won't make a mistake and 'save' the wrong people or oops forget someone who is supposed to Be saved.

God won't forget someone who is supposed to be saved? Sue this is just shocking.

Go and say to a child, that they must not worry as God will not forget to reveal Jesus to those specially selected for heaven.

 

[KingJ]

Amen, sis...And anyone is equally free to receive His gift, but alas all will not. God wills that all men everywhere will repent (change their mind) and be saved but only to those that receive Him will He give the power (or right in Aramaic) to become the children of God.

I don't think you properly read her post.

He foreknows all who will receive Christ and all who will not.

Now you are contradicting your first line.

You said everyone is equally free. Now you say God knows who will and who won't be in heaven. Since God is the Creator of all, creating some for hell and some for heaven is not '''equally free''. You have just espoused He is partial. IE Wicked.

You and Sue have both placed God in a box. Derived from your understanding of the dictionary definition of the word ''omniscience''.

 

[Brother Paul]

I don't think you properly read her post.

Now you are contradicting your first line.

You said everyone is equally free. Now you say God knows who will and who won't be in heaven. Since God is the Creator of all, creating some for hell and some for heaven is not '''equally free''. You have just espoused He is partial. IE Wicked.

You and Sue have both placed God in a box. Derived from your understanding of the dictionary definition of the word ''omniscience''.

Apparently Sue was correct and you do not read well. I said ANYONE can be saved but all will not because some will reject Him and the knowledge of Him (Romans 1).
And then I said that He foreknows all who will accept the work of His redeemer and all who will not (foreknowing does not equal causing). When God created humankind He did not intend to make some for Hell and condemnation (that happens because of their choices here). He makes them wit the ability to decide (like Him) and then they reject Him. Though He knows those who will reject Him it was not mandated. They were each given the same opportunity to accept the work of His redemption.

Take Cain for an example, even though God knew (not caused) the ultimate choice Cain would make, He audibly spoke to Cain and offered him grace saying "why are you sad/angry, if YOU go an do it right will it also not go well with you?" Then He forewarns him of the consequence of making the wrong choice....He tells him that if he does not "go and do it right" then sin (at the door) will rule over him. You see it is OUR sin that separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2)

 

[KingJ]

I said ANYONE can be saved

And then I said that He foreknows all who will accept the work of His redeemer

No contradiction here at all.....

Though He knows those who will reject Him it was not mandated. .

This is like saying ''I made a lion to eat game. I knew the lion would eat game. I am now surprised that the lion is eating game''.

They were each given the same opportunity to accept the work of His redemption.

You just said that God foreknew who would accept. God having foreknowledge PLUS God being the Creator utterly debunks your statement ''same opportunity''.

I make a Ferrari and a Mazda. I know a Ferrari will break the speed limit. I know a Mazda won't. I did not make the Ferrari crash or ordain the driver be sent to prison. I gave both cars a fair chance at ''eternal'' prison or no prison.

Take Cain for an example, even though God knew (not caused) the ultimate choice Cain would make, He audibly spoke to Cain and offered him grace saying "why are you sad/angry, if YOU go an do it right will it also not go well with you?" Then He forewarns him of the consequence of making the wrong choice....He tells him that if he does not "go and do it right" then sin (at the door) will rule over him. You see it is OUR sin that separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2)

With your belief, you believe God knew from birth that Cain would sin and be in hell one-day. In other words I would expect your synopsis to be:

God knew Cain would commit a mortal sin and never repent, but yet still decided to go visit him and try get a confession. God had nothing better to do. The angels in heaven were making a noise, He needed a break.

 

[Dave M]

Nobody is born destined for hell

everyone's default location is hell

 

[KingJ]

everyone's default location is hell

Nonsense. Scripture?

You want to teach that if Jesus could not bear the burden of the cross that God would send all of us to an eternity in the lake of fire....when in the OT before the cross He isolated many in Abraham's bosom?

 

[Brother-Paul]

Are some people predestined for hell no matter what they do.

From the fall to Christ's Return is mapped out, God knows who will be saved and who will not be saved, we agree.

God knows this, He knew this from the start. He does not want any to be lost be there will be many who are lost and go to hell.

The word 'begot' comes to mind, we are all of the line from Adam and Eve, from Noah and his family.

Take one part of the line... the heart being a saved soul, the tears being the ones going to hell

:crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying::crying:


God knows how many will go to Heaven, how many He has planned for the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, which is almost 1500 miles, length, width and height.

But to obtain the number there are going to be ones who reject Him, who choose the lie rather than the Truth.

It would be nice to have a line of saved souls from Genesis to Revelations, but we know it is not possible, God knew and still knows it is not possible.

But everyone is given the same chance, we do not know who will 'never' accept Jesus and the Truth, but God does. So we have to share the Word, share Jesus with all, that is what we are asked to do, what we are requested to do.

So to sum up, I believe that...
- God knows, God knew, from the start who will be lost and go to hell.
- God does not want any to be lost, we are to share the Good News, but He knows some will accept the lie and continue to reject Him, His Son, Salvation.

What Sue and Brother Paul say above is correct, what Sue says in not shocking, it is saddening from our prospective but God knew and knows the outcome.

Each generation in the line from the beginning, people lines as they grew generation on generation, as one begot another, gives everyone the same chance, but the only ones saved are those that came to God through Jesus via the cross. The ones going to hell had their chance chose the lie and will pay for it.

As Sue explained, I agree, a child abuser, a serial killer can go to heaven if they repent and come to God through Jesus, a good person in worldly eyes, a charitable person, a person who does good all their life, who maybe goes to a church every week, helps out with the works, etc, will go to hell if they are not saved.

When God put all the names in the Book of Life, he didn't want any to be lost. When He put the names in the book of life he knew no matter how many times some would hear the Good News, they would reject God's gift of salvation.

John 3:16-17 (NKJV)
16 For God so loved the world (He created) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

God did not condemn the world, @KingJ, He sent His One and Only Son that it may be saved.

John 3:18-21 (NKJV)
18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

The answers are there brother, don't just read John 3:16, read the passage through to John 3:21 or better still John 3:1-21.
This section should always be read IN FULL.

Jesus paid the price IN FULL, for God, for us.

God has not condemned any one person, we have condemned ourself through choosing the lie instead of The Truth.
And God new it would be this way, that was why when He planned it He put the Names of those who would be saved in the Book of Life.

 

[Sue D.]

@Brother-Paul -- very well stated.

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- omniscience / being omniscient is one of God's attributes. It means that God knows Everything.

Also -- read John 17 -- Jesus Christ is talking to God the Father vs 9 actually vs 6 - 9. "I pray for them, I do not pray for the world, but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

And, yes, believe it or not -- there Are those who Want to pay for their Own sins. I've had conversations With them. It hardly seems possible -- but it's fact. It's Also true that as long as a person is alive -- they Can accept Christ. But no one can Make them accept.

 

[Dave M]

Nonsense. Scripture?

You want to teach that if Jesus could not bear the burden of the cross that God would send all of us to an eternity in the lake of fire....when in the OT before the cross He isolated many in Abraham's bosom?

I am not teaching anything, I telling you what scripture says, unless you are born again you can not get into heaven, thats what Jesus said himself. This is basic 101 Christianity, if you dont understand this I really pray for your eyes to be opened. I also can recommend some great study sources for you just let me know.

John 3:3
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”