you are right. however there are many gods in the world. but only one that bears the name jesus. and there is no other name more loves and hated at the same time in this world.
Are there verses in the Bible that support?
- Thread starter ushalk
- Start date
you are right. however there are many gods in the world. but only one that bears the name jesus. and there is no other name more loves and hated at the same time in this world.
I agree with you whole heartedly. I stated earlier in a post that I am not against going into a building or what not for fellowship or worship. However the way that these things have been taught and misconstrued is a problem and has many people confused on salvation and faith. Not to mention that there is not one place in the Bible where people were invited into a church or the church before accepting Christ first. There is also nowhere that states anything about membership enrolment and all the other garbage that has people believing in things that are not biblical.
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This is a re-post of a post which I am unable to find. Adding the link to this thread would have been so much simpler! LOL
However, I do pray it helps.
YBIC
C4E
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The following is something put together not too long ago in a discussion I was having with someone who is Catholic and believes there's the only one true church. In looking at this subject, it became apparent that church in scripture is identified specific to locations, but more importantly to a body of believers at said locations. Even Revelations in the letters to the churches (multiple) deals with the behaviors of the congregations, not one shoe fits all as is the inclination with most denominations. The church I currently attend, never did answer this question when posed to them So through reading and praying the conclusion to me is that there is a Universal Church (My term only.), but not one which has ceilings, walls, or any worldly attributes we look to infuse in it.
My suggestion, if one is looking for one, is to seek one that is founded, and adheres to the Holy Bible, is willing to answer questions put before them, one that prays, does and not just talks about the Great Commission, in charity, service and exhibits the Love that God has shown us through His Son Jesus, to a lost and dying world.
I pray that this post may be for the edification and not a hindrance to anyone. In the name of Jesus Christ I ask this Amen.
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I have to first start defining certain words so we can see if we’re actually using the same Dictionary. It’s easy to use the same words, but as I’m coming to find out is that at times we are using different dictionaries, which might create difficulty in understanding each other. I hope you don’t mind that I tackle it in this fashion. I will attempt in every case to identify scripture or the lack of scriptural reference. Lord willing within the context of what God would have us comprehend we will find His truth.
Church
First one must define church as used in scripture. Easy to automatically provide the definition from our current perspective of what a church must be. Many people today understand the church as a building or denomination. This is not a complete biblical understanding of church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people. It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. The following verse I used to show Paul addressing "the church" as a body of believers and not a building/denomination. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.
How does one come to this? First one must see who the Creator of the Church is.
Jesus Christ Co-Creator
You can see this clearly that the church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head in the following scripture reading.
Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Holy Spirit Co-Creator
Keep in mind as well that the Holy Spirit was co-creator of the church.
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Ephesians 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; (20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; (21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Where is this "...habitation of God through the Spirit."?
Body of Christ
The phrase “the Body of Christ” is a common New Testament metaphor for the Church (all those who are truly saved).
Romans 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 10:17 For we [being] many are one bread, [and] one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Hebrews 13:3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; [and] them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.
Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Ephesians 4:3-6 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. (4) [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (6) One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
Our need to name things I believe is a Godly direction, that goes all the way back to Genesis. So in this light, for lack of giving the church a specific name or one so general as just "church" which might not be so bad as long as we know the builder and who resides there, I'll add one.
Universal Church
The universal church consists of all believers in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or - Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Ephesians 1:22-23 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, [23] Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
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One consistency I've seen which crosses all denominations, languages, race, what have you, of believers and that is Jesus Christ. That He lived, died on the Cross, and He has Risen! I seen this to be true, just by mentioning His name, to a couple who did not know English, so were distrustful of me, didn't understand a word I was saying, until I said "Jesus Christ", pointed up with my finger and tapped my heart. Truly One Body! Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia! As I mentioned when I first started, I pray this does not become a hindrance to anyone.
YBIC
C4E
However, I do pray it helps.
YBIC
C4E
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The following is something put together not too long ago in a discussion I was having with someone who is Catholic and believes there's the only one true church. In looking at this subject, it became apparent that church in scripture is identified specific to locations, but more importantly to a body of believers at said locations. Even Revelations in the letters to the churches (multiple) deals with the behaviors of the congregations, not one shoe fits all as is the inclination with most denominations. The church I currently attend, never did answer this question when posed to them So through reading and praying the conclusion to me is that there is a Universal Church (My term only.), but not one which has ceilings, walls, or any worldly attributes we look to infuse in it.
My suggestion, if one is looking for one, is to seek one that is founded, and adheres to the Holy Bible, is willing to answer questions put before them, one that prays, does and not just talks about the Great Commission, in charity, service and exhibits the Love that God has shown us through His Son Jesus, to a lost and dying world.
I pray that this post may be for the edification and not a hindrance to anyone. In the name of Jesus Christ I ask this Amen.
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I have to first start defining certain words so we can see if we’re actually using the same Dictionary. It’s easy to use the same words, but as I’m coming to find out is that at times we are using different dictionaries, which might create difficulty in understanding each other. I hope you don’t mind that I tackle it in this fashion. I will attempt in every case to identify scripture or the lack of scriptural reference. Lord willing within the context of what God would have us comprehend we will find His truth.
Church
First one must define church as used in scripture. Easy to automatically provide the definition from our current perspective of what a church must be. Many people today understand the church as a building or denomination. This is not a complete biblical understanding of church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people. It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. The following verse I used to show Paul addressing "the church" as a body of believers and not a building/denomination. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.
How does one come to this? First one must see who the Creator of the Church is.
Jesus Christ Co-Creator
You can see this clearly that the church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head in the following scripture reading.
Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Holy Spirit Co-Creator
Keep in mind as well that the Holy Spirit was co-creator of the church.
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Ephesians 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; (20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; (21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Where is this "...habitation of God through the Spirit."?
Body of Christ
The phrase “the Body of Christ” is a common New Testament metaphor for the Church (all those who are truly saved).
Romans 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 10:17 For we [being] many are one bread, [and] one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Hebrews 13:3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; [and] them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.
Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Ephesians 4:3-6 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. (4) [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (6) One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
Our need to name things I believe is a Godly direction, that goes all the way back to Genesis. So in this light, for lack of giving the church a specific name or one so general as just "church" which might not be so bad as long as we know the builder and who resides there, I'll add one.
Universal Church
The universal church consists of all believers in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or - Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Ephesians 1:22-23 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, [23] Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
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One consistency I've seen which crosses all denominations, languages, race, what have you, of believers and that is Jesus Christ. That He lived, died on the Cross, and He has Risen! I seen this to be true, just by mentioning His name, to a couple who did not know English, so were distrustful of me, didn't understand a word I was saying, until I said "Jesus Christ", pointed up with my finger and tapped my heart. Truly One Body! Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia! As I mentioned when I first started, I pray this does not become a hindrance to anyone.
YBIC
C4E
Christ4ever, you are right in what the lord has shown you as far as church. Paul writes to the corinths that they are carnal minded with their bickerings and statements of I am of appollas and I am of paul etc. This is the same with denominations. The word denomination actually comes from the word denominator which mean to divide or division. This is part of the reason that this is so important to me. these things have caused many divisions and issues in the body of Christ.
Hello ushalk and everyone, there are some great replys to this thread. I recently had this conversation with a friend of mine. I truly believe that the Bible CANNOT contradict itself in no point or you or I can throw the Bible away. So I came accross 1Tim 3:15, sorry don't know how to put it up here. In some Bibles it cross reference with John 10:16 where Jesus States" and other sheep I have, which are not of this FOLD, them also I must bring, and they shall here my voice; and there shall be ONE FOLD, and one shepherd".
I mean not for nothing those 2 verses tells me there is a) a church b) denominations. Not to mention what someone mentioned before about the Reformation and that we all would be Catholics if it wasn't for the denominations that came out back then. I agree with you about the apostasy that goes, sad to say, in most churches. Jesus agrees when He stated in Matt 7:21-23. But I truly agree that Jesus is the one who will seperate the wheat and the tares Matt 13. Not you or I but Jesus will do the seperation.
Yes we make up the church but we cannot negate the fact of what is said in 1TIM3:15. GOD BLESS
I mean not for nothing those 2 verses tells me there is a) a church b) denominations. Not to mention what someone mentioned before about the Reformation and that we all would be Catholics if it wasn't for the denominations that came out back then. I agree with you about the apostasy that goes, sad to say, in most churches. Jesus agrees when He stated in Matt 7:21-23. But I truly agree that Jesus is the one who will seperate the wheat and the tares Matt 13. Not you or I but Jesus will do the seperation.
Yes we make up the church but we cannot negate the fact of what is said in 1TIM3:15. GOD BLESS
Sorry I forgot to mention that Jesus believed there was denominations in John 4 when talking w/ the Samaritan woman. He states, I'm paraphrasing " Salvation is of the Jews" this woman was a Samaritan. She stated her "fathers" worship on the mountain if anyone knows about Samaritans or at least in John 4 she believed in God "Jehovah". But was not acquainted w/Jesus.
So lets make this practical lets say I talk to a relative and lets say my relative is a Catholic. Right off the back I mean no disrespect to Catholics, my mother is a Catholic. So this relative believes in God "Jehovah " and so do I being a born again Christian. And I tell her as Jesus told the Samaritan "You do not know what you worship, salvation is of the born again Christians" Read John 4 and pray before you read it to let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth. Clearly Jesus believed in denominations. Do I believe there is One fold yes. One faith yes Ephesians 4:5. Hope this helps
So lets make this practical lets say I talk to a relative and lets say my relative is a Catholic. Right off the back I mean no disrespect to Catholics, my mother is a Catholic. So this relative believes in God "Jehovah " and so do I being a born again Christian. And I tell her as Jesus told the Samaritan "You do not know what you worship, salvation is of the born again Christians" Read John 4 and pray before you read it to let the Holy Spirit guide you into all truth. Clearly Jesus believed in denominations. Do I believe there is One fold yes. One faith yes Ephesians 4:5. Hope this helps
Fenn
Member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2012
- Messages
- 130
Are you sure that John 10:16 is referring to denominations and not the divide that was between the Jews and Gentiles?
John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
When I read this, I read it as God adding the Gentiles to his flock.
In John 4:22 Jesus said that the Samaritans did not know God and they did not have salvation. Therefore Samaritans were not another denomination of Judaism they were a pagan worshipping false religion outside of Judaism. Also at the time Judaism was separated into various factions, sects (or denominations I suppose) - the Pharisees and Sadducees and Essenes. However their presence does not indicate God's approval.
Jesus did not believe in denominations according to John 17.
Hello iwas doing a bit of studying and found out a little more about who were the Samaritans. First of they believed in God. Samaritans came from Ephrain (Isa 7:9) who was Joseph son (Gen 41:52). Just like Israel became idolatrous so did the Samaritans( Isa 10:9-11). Jesus in Matt 10:5 made a distinction between Gentiles and Samaritan, I guess that can be denominations also. So yes Jesus made some clear distinction on denominations.
See the question Ushalk brought up is a good question. There are over 2,500 denominations in this world. Some or most believe some wild stuff. Others believe that baptism is sprinkling in the head when your a baby. They all can say "Jesus is Lord and Savior" now my question is are they right? See Jesus was confronted a lot with this problem and always directed those other denominations to His one true FOLD(John 10:16). Whether they were called Pharisees, Saduccees, Samaritans, Gentiles, etc. Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life. So why is there 2,500 different ways? Why does Paul state in Ephesians 4- one Lord, one baptism, one FAITH?
At a time when we are close to the end, Jesus second coming, as my friend tells me sometimes you talk like a politician. Another words in this age its the age of not trying to offend anyone. I use the analogy of their being a fire in a building and there is several apartments in the building and you rush in and break the first door down, knowing the fire is close, and you see people in that first apt and you tell them there is a fire spreading fast GET OUT. Lets say they tell you I'm ok where I am, I'm saved I'm fine I know I'm ok. Yet you know that fire is going to overtake them. Now let me stop here and tell you that there is a fire coming to this world that is near. Back to the story, now how would you tell thise people that they are wrong and will burn? We like to agree with everyone burmt if we love others we would plead with them. As Jesus states in Revelation I believe its verse 10 around there "As many as I love I rebuke" Brothers and sisters if we have love for one another we have to admonish one another and rebuke where it is needed but always in love. Not selfish, prideful manner.
So yes everyoje there are denominations in the Bible and yes I believe there is ONE fold/ONE FAITH.
See the question Ushalk brought up is a good question. There are over 2,500 denominations in this world. Some or most believe some wild stuff. Others believe that baptism is sprinkling in the head when your a baby. They all can say "Jesus is Lord and Savior" now my question is are they right? See Jesus was confronted a lot with this problem and always directed those other denominations to His one true FOLD(John 10:16). Whether they were called Pharisees, Saduccees, Samaritans, Gentiles, etc. Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life. So why is there 2,500 different ways? Why does Paul state in Ephesians 4- one Lord, one baptism, one FAITH?
At a time when we are close to the end, Jesus second coming, as my friend tells me sometimes you talk like a politician. Another words in this age its the age of not trying to offend anyone. I use the analogy of their being a fire in a building and there is several apartments in the building and you rush in and break the first door down, knowing the fire is close, and you see people in that first apt and you tell them there is a fire spreading fast GET OUT. Lets say they tell you I'm ok where I am, I'm saved I'm fine I know I'm ok. Yet you know that fire is going to overtake them. Now let me stop here and tell you that there is a fire coming to this world that is near. Back to the story, now how would you tell thise people that they are wrong and will burn? We like to agree with everyone burmt if we love others we would plead with them. As Jesus states in Revelation I believe its verse 10 around there "As many as I love I rebuke" Brothers and sisters if we have love for one another we have to admonish one another and rebuke where it is needed but always in love. Not selfish, prideful manner.
So yes everyoje there are denominations in the Bible and yes I believe there is ONE fold/ONE FAITH.
