baptized with water and the holy spirit

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

2 Cor 3:3 (NKJV) You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

Me: We will have a new human heart of the holy spirit of God.

Ezk 11:19 (NKJV) Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh,

Me: It will align with the human mind of Christ and his human heart in the holy spirit.

2 Cor 2:16 (NKJV) For “who has known the (human) mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Matt 23:10 (NKJV) And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.

Me: Even the prophets of old did not comprehend what the new testament church can and does now, for their was no human teacher that was perfect, without sin and with the holy spirit of God in him teaching humans

John 14:15 (NKJV) “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He (me: the messiah) DWELLS WITH YOU and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Me: The Messiah would transform into a spirit—the holy spirit with the human heart of man in it.

John 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.:

Me: The human mind of the spirit follows the mind of God in that same spirit. Together they are one.

John 14:6 (NKJV) Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,


2 Cor 3:17 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Hi All,

1 Cor 14:45 (NASB) So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving SPIRIT.

1 Cor 15:22 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.

John 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,

Me: It is man that saves man through being the son of God. Christ is the second Adam. As the first Adam was called the son of God because he was created directly by God (Luke 2:38), so is the second Adam created by God. So are the angels called the sons of God. So are members of the New Testament church called the sons of God for the church has no predecessors by are a direct creation of God through Christ. Both man and the angels are made in the spiritual image and form of God.

Christ is the second Adam in the sense that we are created as sons of God by dying and rising with him in baptism in the holy spirit (me: water is just symbolic of this) to a new life. We become the adopted sons of God (Ephesians 1:5) through Christ.

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?

Me: Those that believed in Christ but died before Pentecost in Acts 2 would live again spiritually just before Pentecost, and those that believed in Christ but died after that Pentecost would not die spiritually. When the verse says believe in Christ, it does not only mean at the beginning, but all the way to the end of one’s physical existence here. Those that endure to the end will be saved (Matt 24:13).

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Me: Christ will not receive his new body before us, but with us. He is a spirit now.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be


Me: Does Matt 24:36 contradict John 16:14. Take a look at Revelation 11:7-11. The two witnesses bodies shall lie in the street of Jerusalem whereby the Lord shall raise them up at his return. So we know at least from that point to three and a half days later that the Lord will return. Can we go back further than that?

1 Cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Exodus 32:14 And the Lord repented (me: changed his mind) of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Me: It seems that the Father himself had not set a time when the Messiah would return at the time Christ made the statement in Matt 24:36. But you can bet when he does, Christ will know.

 

[Born Again 2004]

You are Born Again the very moment God infuses the Holy Spirit inside you. This can happen inside or outside water!!! ]

 

[WesleyJordan]

John tells us that Jesus is the Word of God. If you replace the phrase ‘the Word’ with ‘Jesus’ in the beginning verses of John and read it again, the passage makes a whole lot more sense. At least it did to me!

In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God. The same(Jesus) was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The subsequent verses go on to call Jesus ‘the Light’.

Something interesting happens when you go back to genesis and substitute the word Jesus for light in the first few verses and see what happens.
(Remember there was no sun or moon until day four, but there was light on day one)

Starting in genesis 1:3:

And God said, Let there be Jesus; and there was Jesus. And God saw Jesus, that it was good: and God divided Jesus from the darkness. And God called Jesus Day, and the darkness he called Night, and the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

[WesleyJordan]

You are Born Again the very moment God infuses the Holy Spirit inside you. This can happen inside or outside water!!! ]

I’d argue instead that God infused the Holy Spirit inside you the moment you are born again, but I know what you mean brother.

Let’s also not forget that before baptism should come repentance and belief.

If you try to skip the repentance step, which is the most important step, the step that fixes ALL problems in our lives, the Holy Spirit is NOT going to stay around. Sure, he’s going to come inside the house of your heart INITIALLY just because you finally invited him in and he’s been asking to come over. But when he walks in and sees how you’ve still not cleaned your house up(your heart), and he had nowhere clean to sit down, he’s going to leave and tell you to clean up your house and prepare a clean place for him to stay and then give him a call when things have been cleaned up.

And if you keep doing this: asking God to come over and visit you in your home,(asking The Holy Spirit to come into your heart) but you still refuse to clean your house up(repent), what do you think he is going to do?He’s going to eventually stop answering your calls and texts to come over because now you’re wasting his time with your lies. He may even block your number. What a horrible thought...

I give Jesus all the glory, amen!

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Wesley,

Disagree


There was no son of God pertaining to man in the OT, only to angels. Click below and see. One “like the son of God” in Daniel 3:25 which is a theophany.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)


Me: Christ is called the son of man for a reason. God does not die.

1 Cor 15:21 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Me: The humanity in Christ did die. The mind of the Father expressed fully in him did not.

Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

 

[Born Again 2004]

" I stand at the door and knock, if you open, I will come in and Support with you". For sure he is Lord and Savior. Amen!

 

[Truthcomber]

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Hi Wesley,

Disagree


There was no son of God pertaining to man in the OT, only to angels. Click below and see. One “like the son of God” in Daniel 3:25 which is a theophany.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)


Christ is called the son of man for a reason. God does not die.

1 Cor 15:21 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Me: The humanity in Christ did die.

Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. 5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

Me: The human mind in the Messiah grew in its bond with the mind of God expressed fully in him.


John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly (me: soul) shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet _____; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Me: John 7:38 should be “not yet” and not “not yet given”. Click below for the Greek text and see. Christ humanity was not fully bonded with the holy mind of his father until before Pentecost in Acts 2.
John 7:39 Interlinear: and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son…25 Son of God…27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Me: The son of God is the son of man. All judgment is given to him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour (Me: Gk-time) is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Me: The saints of the NT testament church are judged first in this present age from Pentecost in Acts 2 forward until the Messiah’s return. The righteous dead from the OT will be will be judged and brought to life. Those that live after Pentecost will never die if they endure to the end of their physical lives. They are judged now.

2 Cor 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:

Me: Salvation is now for the NT church and the righteous prophets and saints of the OT.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,…

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before GOD; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Me: The rest of the dead, including those of the present day church that did not endure unto the end of their physical lives, will be judged at the end of the millennium. Salvation is for the rest of mankind after the millennium. Notice that the Messiah is God in the preceding verse because God’ is fully in him here on earth.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth:...

Me: There is but one person here, one God and one mind of divinity and humanity.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him...9...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

Matt 6:9 … “Our Father which art in heaven”...

Me: Most of the book of revelation deals with the events that lead up to our heavenly Father being with men in Rev 21. Prior to that, God’s mind was projected into the Messiah from heaven.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. ..22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Me: The mind of God will no longer be projected from heaven but here on earth directly in the Messiah.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,



John 10:30 I and my Father are one.



Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Me: The Word and God are one. The expression of God (the Word) and God are one.



Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning WITH God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men…14 And the Word was made (me: expressed in) flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Me: The full expression of God's mind is now in the mind of the man Christ.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 

[Truthcomber]

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Me: Two aspect of the one mind of God.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,



Jas 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures

1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

Me: There is one body with many members and one first fruit with much fruit. This is Christ and his church.

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Me: Notice “firstfruits” in 1 Cor 15:22 and not firstfruit. Actually the Greek can be translated either way. This church age is the firstfruits age or the first small harvest. Christ is the vine, and the NT church are the branches ( John 15:5). Thus, the firstfruits are saved now, the rest of mankind after his return (1 Corinthians 15:22-23 above). The NT church is saved in the order of their deaths.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,



1 Cor 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Me: This is present tense. Some preached that the resurrection of both Christ and those that had died was not yet.

John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I AM THE RESURRECTION and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Me: Martha had believed this likewise. The spiritual resurrection started with the death and resurrection of Christ at Pentecost in Acts 2.

1 Cor 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

2 Cor 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)


Me: Salvation started from Pentecost in Acts 2.

Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Me: The promise was given around Pentecost in Acts 2. This was eternal life by being baptized in the holy spirit, yes, even those dead saints in their graves.

 

[Sue D.]

Salvation was made possible by the death, burial and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit started to come at Pentecost in Acts 2.

Scripture does not teach that dead people can be 'saved'. The time for salvation is NOW -- while a person is alive and able to make their own personal decision To accept or reject salvation.

In the Old Testaments people looked Towards the coming cross -either accepting what the prophets told them and what they could observe in God's nature or rejecting that. We look Back at the cross and either accept what has already Been done For us or reject it. Even during the time of Jesus Christ's ministry here on earth -- either people accepted or rejected Him.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Sue D,


You: Scripture does not teach that dead people can be 'saved'. The time for salvation is NOW -- while a person is alive and able to make their own personal decision To accept or reject salvation.


Me: Then tell me how the Old Testament saints that died before the advent of Christ are saved? I am not addressing those that did not have the spirit of God in them, but those that did. Salvation is for them also NOW. They had accepted the promise of eternal life but had not received it until Pentecost, yes. Otherwise, I mostly agree with you.


Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi Sue D,



John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Me: The apostles had received the holy spirit at this time. But they had not yet received the baptism of the spirit. They were not yet saved.

Luke 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Me: Unlike the prophets of old, no one from John the Baptist to the apostles in John 20:21 had received the holy spirit. Instead, they were baptized with water awaiting the resurrection and ascension of the Messiah into heaven. The holy spirit was work in process in this interval. The humanity of Christ was not fully bonded with the holy spirit. What if those who had died before Pentecost in Acts 2 before receiving the holy spirit.. I believe, like the thief on the cross, they would still be saved for water baptism was a substitute for the baptism of the holy spirit like animal sacrifices were until the arrival of the substance.

 

[Truthcomber]

SPIRITUAL SEED OF ABRAHAM

Me: After his resurrection and glorification, he was fully the Son of God and so made so much greater than the angels,
Psalms 8:5…and hast crowned him with glory and honour

Jesus Became The Only Begotten Son of God
~AT THE RESURRECTION~
Jesus Became The Only Begotten Son of God AT THE RESURRECTION

Hebrews 1:4 BEING MADE SO MUCH BETTER THAN ANGELS, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I have begotten (me: BIRTH) thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten (Colossian 1:18) into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Me: The Messiah became fully the son after his resurrection and glorification in heaven.

He is the first born from the dead. He is the first of the first fruits.

Heb 5: 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7 WHO IN THE DAYS OF THE FLESH, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Me: The Messiah became a high priest when he became fully THE son of God as a spirit (human mind of the holy spirit). The church becomes sons of God through adoption by dying and resurrecting with Christ when they are baptized of the holy spirit. They become fully the adopted sons of God at their deaths, if in good stead.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence (Mark 4:31).