Beliefs of RCC / Biblical?

[Brother-Paul]

I was just reading through the Apostles Creed -- the only part I'd Disagree with is "and the holy Catholic Church'. And That is Not the Church that Jesus Christ founded.

So -- we have the RCC papacy which is not Biblical. And the praying through Mary -- which is also non-Biblical. And then we have the Perpetual Virginity of Mary? That she never had other children. Her womb was sacred. But Scripture Does tell us that James was one of His brothers. Mark 6:3 "Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters here with us?"

And Matthew 1:25 "Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, vs 25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus."

And then there are the RCC nuns -- that's certain not in the Bible.

Comments ?!

Week after week people world-wide say the Creed and the Lord's prayer and both are said, parrot fashion, from memory, not really from the heart.

I came to faith thirty years ago, I attended a brand new church building, denomination, Church of England. I remained there for seven years but many things left me uncomfortable, but one thing I clearly remember was the Creed including the words... 'the holy catholic and apostolic church' in my belief. I couldn't say those words, it was wrong but no one would listen to me, I was a new believer, in a new church building, which had been started by a faithful few from a church hall. So I decided I would stop missing out holy catholic and, just including 'the Apostolic Church'. Not only did the words holy catholic church bother me, the wording is put before the Apostolic Church.

Another interesting thing that happened, it must have been some six to nine months later, two elderly ladies were sat behind me, during the small quiet period straight after the creed was said, I heard one lady say to the other, I thought this place was Church of England not Catholic! I prayed and hoped to get chance to speak to them after the service, but they had gone and never came back.

The catholic church has so many errors, from the pope downwards, yet they cannot see the errors and twist scripture to suit what they want to believe, they changed the 10 Commandments, clever how they did it, omitting idol worship, again to suit their practices, worship of Jesus and Mary with idols, I did add the 10 Commandments and highlighted the changes in a past post. We also have the pope now recommending to change the Lord's Prayer and omit, lead us not into temptation'

They say the pope has divine authority to change these things. Yet scripture is clear, not one dot or tittle shall be changed. I guess the same way they say the pope is on the line of Peter. One day soon they will answer for their errors.

 

[Brother-Paul]

The papacy arose out of a need. That need was the mass murder of Christians. Emperor Constantine was used by God to stop this. Then emperor Theodosius 1, made Christianity the state religion. He knew that this was the only way to properly put an end to the murder and abuse of Christians. They were surrounded by ''wicked'' people. Very wicked.

You sit today in cozy USA typing freely on the internet about your Christian views because God used emperor Theodosius 1.

The only way to keep religion in power was to introduce something like the papacy. Like bishops given control over areas. There was a very long think tank session, I promise you that. It was not '''oh how do we make ourselves gods among men and make a mockery of scripture''.

The pope has never said he is a god. Jesus / A cross is the centerpiece of every church building.

The cross is the centre piece in all RCC's but with Jesus still on the cross, usually above the alter, and often 2-3 times larger than a human. I have seen the congregation kneeling staring up at the idol of Jesus, they treat Mary the same way as well as praying through the heart of Mary.

All against scripture.

 

[Hekuran]

Week after week people world-wide say the Creed and the Lord's prayer and both are said, parrot fashion, from memory, not really from the heart.

I came to faith thirty years ago, I attended a brand new church building, denomination, Church of England. I remained there for seven years but many things left me uncomfortable, but one thing I clearly remember was the Creed including the words... 'the holy catholic and apostolic church' in my belief. I couldn't say those words, it was wrong but no one would listen to me, I was a new believer, in a new church building, which had been started by a faithful few from a church hall. So I decided I would stop missing out holy catholic and, just including 'the Apostolic Church'. Not only did the words holy catholic church bother me, the wording is put before the Apostolic Church.

Another interesting thing that happened, it must have been some six to nine months later, two elderly ladies were sat behind me, during the small quiet period straight after the creed was said, I heard one lady say to the other, I thought this place was Church of England not Catholic! I prayed and hoped to get chance to speak to them after the service, but they had gone and never came back.

The catholic church has so many errors, from the pope downwards, yet they cannot see the errors and twist scripture to suit what they want to believe, they changed the 10 Commandments, clever how they did it, omitting idol worship, again to suit their practices, worship of Jesus and Mary with idols, I did add the 10 Commandments and highlighted the changes in a past post. We also have the pope now recommending to change the Lord's Prayer and omit, lead us not into temptation'

They say the pope has divine authority to change these things. Yet scripture is clear, not one dot or tittle shall be changed. I guess the same way they say the pope is on the line of Peter. One day soon they will answer for their errors.

If you'd asked what it meant, I think you'd have been assured. 'Holy' means set aside, 'catholic' is all encompassing, and 'apostolic' is holding to the teaching of the apostles.

The church has not omitted anything from the Lord's Prayer, the wording in Italian has been revised from "lead us not into temptation" to "do not let us fall into temptation".

 

[Dave M]

Catholics believe in different types of sins mortal sin sends you to hell and is the big ones, then they believe in little sins like just a little white lie no big deal you go to purgatory for that

 

[Dave M]

CATHOLICS HAVE CHANGED THE 10 COMMANDMENTS !!!

 

[Brother-Paul]

10 Commandments Biblical vs Catholic

Biblical Version

1. I am the Lord thy God...Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

5. Honor thy father and thy mother.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

10. Thou shalt not covet.

Catholic version.....

1. I am the Lord thy God...Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

3. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

4. Honor thy father and thy mother.

5. Thou shalt not kill.

6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

7. Thou shalt not steal.

8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house.


The Roman Catholic revision is clear to see:

The Vatican eliminates the second commandment against idolatry and subdivides the tenth commandment against covetousness in order to keep the number of commandments at ten.

This version I understand is also used by many Lutheran churches.

The Biblically accurate version used by Protestants is the one found on public monuments and in courtrooms, etc.


Judaism divides Exodus 20 in a manner similar to Protestants,
except that verse 2 ["I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage"] is considered the 1st commandment and verses 3-6 [against idolatry] are considered the 2nd commandment. The division overall is the same as the Biblical one, the Protestant version, the most accurate.


Rome claims that it follows a version of the Ten Commandments established by Augustine in the late fourth century, which in turn was allegedly based on a then-current Jewish synagogue version. This is one of the many cases where Roman Catholicism places the traditions of men in authority over the Word of God.

The commandment against idolatry is clear and specific. It was principally for their flagrant, persistent violations of this commandment that God evicted Israel and Judah from the Promised Land and sent them into captivity. Man has no right to change the Commandments of God by remove the second commandment and making the changes mentioned above.

 

[Brother-Paul]

If you'd asked what it meant, I think you'd have been assured. 'Holy' means set aside, 'catholic' is all encompassing, and 'apostolic' is holding to the teaching of the apostles.

The church has not omitted anything from the Lord's Prayer, the wording in Italian has been revised from "lead us not into temptation" to "do not let us fall into temptation".

I agree brothter the RCC has not yet changed the Lord's Prayer, it was the pope that suggested the change, the pope, and previous pope's have always believed that they have Divine authority to change The Word.

Matthew 5:18 (NKJV)
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Luke 16:17 (NKJV)
17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (NKJV)
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Luke 24:44 (NKJV)
44 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me." [NONE SHOULD BE CHANGED Law Prophets Psalms. All things Written (not changed) will be fulfilled]

Matthew 5:17-18 (NKJV)
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

John 17:17 (NKJV)
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. [Your Word is Truth, not the changed Word done by the pope or any other person]

 

[B-A-C]

Veneration of Mary

Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death.
---
Amen.

Hail Mary - which really means "praise" Mary - give her veneration.
Mother of God - the way this is worded, it implies that Mary has deity.
pray for us sinners now - implies that Mary is a mediator for us. Not Jesus only. Some RCC churches even call her mediatrix.

==========================================

Many RCC churches have statues of Mary somewhere in or around the church, but often no statue of image of Jesus.
"Most" (not all) RCC churches are named after/for Mary. Within 20 miles of where I live I found the following.
Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception
Our Lady of Guadalupe
Our Blessed Pearl of Lima
Our Lady of the Blessed Hope
Our Lady of Fatima
Catholic church of St Anna
There are Also Catholic churches for St Paul, St Francis of Assisi, St Jerome, and St Andrew. But I know of none named
Catholic church of God, Catholic church of Christ the King, or Catholic church of Jesus.

It's almost as if "our" lady is better than your lady (Mary). It seems it's almost a competition of who give Mary the most exalted title.
In RCC theology the immaculate conception is NOT the virgin birth of Jesus. It is the birth of Mary. Somehow this is more immaculate than being conceived by the Holy Spirit.
In RCC theology Mary is not the daughter of Heli, but rather Anna and Joakim. (the Bible does not support this)
In RCC theology Mary is sinless and never sinned. Somehow she was able to break the curse of sin before Jesus was even born. She never needed a Savior.
In RCC theology Mary remain a perpetual virgin, and never had any of other children. Obviously if she is the "mother of God" any other children would have deity also.

In RCC theology "intercessory prayer" means even the dead can intercede and pray for you. In particular 'Mary'.

A common joke in Catholicism is - Mary had a little lamb, His fleece was white as snow, and everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go.
This implies that Mary led Jesus around like a puppy on a leash.

 

[Brother-Paul]

ERRORS of the Roman Catholic Church - by Keith Piper

The Roman Catholic Church believes many false doctrines that are contrary to the Bible, and were unknown to the early Church, such as:

1. Human Tradition is Elevated to Or Above the Word of God (1545 AD)
2. Wrong Gospel, Wrong Message of Salvation
3. Confession of Sins to Priest to Obtain Absolution of Sins
4. Penance
5. Priests
6. Celibacy of Priests and Nuns (1079 AD)
7. Confirmation
8. Extreme Unction (526 AD)
9. Infant Baptism (370 AD)
10. Transubstantiation (1215 AD)
11. Adoration of the Host (Wafer Bread) (1220 AD)
12. The Mass (394 AD)
13. Other Mediators Between God and Man
14. Prayers to Saints (375 AD)
15. Purgatory (593 AD)
16. Papal Infallibility (1870 AD)
17. Indulgences (1190 AD)
18. Idolatry = Making Images (786 AD)
19. Mary Veneration (431 AD)
20. Catholic Attitudes to the Bible (1229 AD)
21. Peter as the Rock
22. 15 Apocrypha Books Added to the Old Testament Bible (1546 AD)
23. Names of Blasphemy (350 AD)
24. Rosary Prayer Beads (1090 AD)
25. Low Moral Standards
26. Devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Mary
27. Crossing Oneself (300 AD)
28. Was Peter the First Pope?
29. Roman Catholic Lies, Immorality, Corruption
30. The Inquisition, Torture, Massacres, Murders, Wars (1184 AD)
31. 15 Evidences that the Roman Catholic Church is Mystery Babylon the Great, the ***** of Revelation 17
32. Who Gave Us the Bible? God or the Roman Catholic Church?
33. They Turn People Away From Christ to Honor Twelve Other Things

Taken from

https://www.gospeloutreach.net/romanerr1.html

There is a lot more reading on this page, please click the link above to read it all and the in depth explanations.

 

[B-A-C]

A very popular song by the Beatles was called "Let it Be".
The song starts off like this...

When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be

I guess it isn't Jesus who takes care of RCC members? I guess it isn't the Holy Spirit that gives them wisdom?

 

[Sue D.]

The papacy arose out of a need. That need was the mass murder of Christians. Emperor Constantine was used by God to stop this. Then emperor Theodosius 1, made Christianity the state religion. He knew that this was the only way to properly put an end to the murder and abuse of Christians. They were surrounded by ''wicked'' people. Very wicked.

You sit today in cozy USA typing freely on the internet about your Christian views because God used emperor Theodosius 1.

The only way to keep religion in power was to introduce something like the papacy. Like bishops given control over areas. There was a very long think tank session, I promise you that. It was not '''oh how do we make ourselves gods among men and make a mockery of scripture''.

The pope has never said he is a god. Jesus / A cross is the centerpiece of every church building.

And, yes, God Does use rulers to accomplish His purposes. God is the Only One who knows the Big picture in this world's activities and His plans.

You said 'you sit in cozy USA' -- where are You located? Many times a person's geographical location makes a lot of difference in a person's perspective.

Keeping God in our sight is the best plan possible. Doesn't mean we'll understand His plan, but that's what we're to keep our sight on.

The pope -- notice I don't capitalize it. The pope knows exactly what he's doing and why -- he allows himself to be put on a very high pedastal.

The history of the origins of the RCC is long and complicated.

The Bible / God's Word does not teach religion to be 'in power' -- it teaches the potential of personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Christianity.

This world is full of wicked, abusive people in or out of power. It always has been and no doubt always will be until Jesus Christ returns for His Church. And during His future 1,000 reign on this earth.
Bible teaches that Christians will experience tribulation, trials in their lives because we're trying to live a Godly life.

I was just Googling Theodosius 1 -- after a quick skimming of materials it sounds like he was an Emporer and one of the 'good guys'. No doubt a gross over simplification -- but I'm not a history person. I'm conservative Baptist and Our history is also complicated.

God has and continues To use a great many great men and women also in His Work in bringing the Gospel unto salvation to mankind.

 

[Sue D.]

A very popular song by the Beatles was called "Let it Be".
The song starts off like this...

When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be
And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be

I guess it isn't Jesus who takes care of RCC members? I guess it isn't the Holy Spirit that gives them wisdom?

God's Word says it's God who gives wisdom. God would that All would come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ -- God's Word is not a denomination / it Is Christianity. The Holy Spirit Does work in our hearts in various ways.

There are lots of very beautiful songs that we all sing. But how Scripturally accurate are they.

 

[B-A-C]

Mass - in my opinion the biggest on-going sin of the RCC.

Probably 90% of Protestant denominations do not have priests. (We are called 'protestants, because we are "protest"ing the RCC church)
Anglicans, Episcopalians, and some Lutheran (ELCA) churches still have priests. (Many Protestant churches do not recognize these churches as "Protestant" for this very reason).
The purpose of a priest in the OT ... you confessed your sins to a priest (the common people in the OT could not talk directly to God) He decided what the cost of your sin was
and sacrificed an animal accordingly. (small sin = small sacrifice, big sin = big sacrifice). Being a priest was a bloody job. The RCC still has confession booths,
apparently you can't confess to Jesus directly.

In Mass (unlike Protestant communion) a priest has to perform the ceremony. They believe in something called "transubstantiation". The bread or cracker actually becomes the body
of Christ (not just a symbol) and the juice or wine actually becomes the blood of Jesus (not just a symbol).

In effect they are re-crucifying Jesus during every Mass.

 

[Sue D.]

It may not have been Paul's biblical vision, no, but is it wrong?

Is woman teaching in protestant churches biblical? Wrong?

Women preachers are Not Biblical -- looking at qualifications for bishops / elders -- Titus 1: 5 - 9 "For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you. --vs 6 , if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. vs 7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God......"

And 1 timothy 3:1 -- most of that chapter , vs 2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, etc...... "

the point I'm bringing out is that of 'the husband of....." that means a man -- Not a woman. Women are not to be teaching a mixed group in a church -- and not behind a pulpit. Women Are to be teaching other women and young children. And they need to be spiritually mature women doing the Biblical teaching /leading of other women.

Definitely not popular but Very Biblical. There's the passage that says that women are not to be put in a position of potentially usurping authority over a man. In an adult class of men and women -- when a women would be a teacher and a man brings up something that needs correcting -- a woman should Not be the person to give correction -- only a man. I Timothy 2:12

 

[Sue D.]

It may not have been Paul's biblical vision, no, but is it wrong?

Is woman teaching in protestant churches biblical? Wrong?

The first part of your comment was regarding the papacy -- that just because it wasn't part of Paul's vision -- is it Wrong. It's not Biblical. The papacy is not in Bible -- therefore .......

 

[B-A-C]

Is there really a difference between the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope?

Archbishop of Canterbury - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sue D.]

Mass - in my opinion the biggest on-going sin of the RCC.

Probably 90% of Protestant denominations do not have priests. (We are called 'protestants, because we are "protest"ing the RCC church)
Anglicans, Episcopalians, and some Lutheran (ELCA) churches still have priests. (Many Protestant churches do not recognize these churches as "Protestant" for this very reason).
The purpose of a priest in the OT ... you confessed your sins to a priest (the common people in the OT could not talk directly to God) He decided what the cost of your sin was
and sacrificed an animal accordingly. (small sin = small sacrifice, big sin = big sacrifice). Being a priest was a bloody job. The RCC still has confession booths,
apparently you can't confess to Jesus directly.

In Mass (unlike Protestant communion) a priest has to perform the ceremony. They believe in something called "transubstantiation". The bread or cracker actually becomes the body
of Christ (not just a symbol) and the juice or wine actually becomes the blood of Jesus (not just a symbol).

In effect they are re-crucifying Jesus during every Mass.

You're probably right about the Mass -- a great deal of ritual. A lot of people feel 'safe' in ritual. And some rituals are Good -- it depends on the attitude of the person and the reason For the ritual.
And, yes, transubstantiation is a Big thing and again, Not-Biblical.

And, yes, that would be recrucifying Christ all the time. Someone I was able to talk to about all of this years ago, said that keeping Jesus Christ on the cross was simply a reminder of what He went through- pain and suffering for us. And that they knew He rose from the dead. And that their doing the sign of the cross -- apparently representing the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Nothing Non-Biblical about that.

And, yes, Protests / Protestantism = Protesting what was being taught in the RCC. There were Godly men within the RCC who -- after learning how to read -- realized some of the false teachings and Tried to reform from within. But it didn't work. the Protestant Reformation. A long, complicated history.

And I'm thinking it was Martin Luther who posted the 99 thesis and that's how Lutheranism got started. There were at least 99 things he saw wrong that needed 'fixing'. Again - an over-simplification.

 

[Sue D.]

Is there really a difference between the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope?

Archbishop of Canterbury - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That could be another subject thread.

 

[KingJ]

Catholics believe in different types of sins mortal sin sends you to hell and is the big ones, then they believe in little sins like just a little white lie no big deal you go to purgatory for that

Sorry Dave, but Catholics have mortal and venial sins correct.

A person truly neutral would interpret ''stone person X to death for he committed sin Y'' and then simply ''excommunicate person W for he only committed sin Z'' as a difference between mortal and venial sins in the OT. I have quoted many NT examples before. The most popular one being reading Matt 5:28 with Matt 5:32. Or just reading 1 John 5:16.

It is false to say that the RCC believes a mortal sinner cannot be saved / guarantees one for hell.

Purgatory is seen in the 'Maccabees'. The Maccabees is also not a bad book to read or include. Unlike something like the account of Judas. The RCC did after all collate the bible as we mostly have it. RCC could argue that Protestants came and cherry picked exclusions.

 

[Sue D.]

Week after week people world-wide say the Creed and the Lord's prayer and both are said, parrot fashion, from memory, not really from the heart.

I came to faith thirty years ago, I attended a brand new church building, denomination, Church of England. I remained there for seven years but many things left me uncomfortable, but one thing I clearly remember was the Creed including the words... 'the holy catholic and apostolic church' in my belief. I couldn't say those words, it was wrong but no one would listen to me, I was a new believer, in a new church building, which had been started by a faithful few from a church hall. So I decided I would stop missing out holy catholic and, just including 'the Apostolic Church'. Not only did the words holy catholic church bother me, the wording is put before the Apostolic Church.

Another interesting thing that happened, it must have been some six to nine months later, two elderly ladies were sat behind me, during the small quiet period straight after the creed was said, I heard one lady say to the other, I thought this place was Church of England not Catholic! I prayed and hoped to get chance to speak to them after the service, but they had gone and never came back.

The catholic church has so many errors, from the pope downwards, yet they cannot see the errors and twist scripture to suit what they want to believe, they changed the 10 Commandments, clever how they did it, omitting idol worship, again to suit their practices, worship of Jesus and Mary with idols, I did add the 10 Commandments and highlighted the changes in a past post. We also have the pope now recommending to change the Lord's Prayer and omit, lead us not into temptation'

They say the pope has divine authority to change these things. Yet scripture is clear, not one dot or tittle shall be changed. I guess the same way they say the pope is on the line of Peter. One day soon they will answer for their errors.

Good point -- God wants our hearts not something we've memorized such as a Creed. Though the Creed has lots of good things In it. And lots of people - saved or not - say the Lord's Prayer with warmth and feeling. We believe in our hearts and that's where God wants to be.