I believe you can lose your salvation too. I don't care if a person is Catholic, Mormon, JW, SDA, or anything else. I don't judge them because that's up to the Father and His son Jesus Christ. The Protestants are masters at demonizing other's in the faith, especially Catholic's. I believe that when we badmouth other sects in Christianity it does nothing but hurt us all when unbelievers or people who are seeking see the hypocrisy.
Beliefs of RCC / Biblical?
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Dave M
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I hope you use good judgement that scripture teaches THE JW deny Christ is Jesus so here is what scripture says to do,
2 John 1:10-11
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
It sounded to me like B-A-C was saying Mary is no better than the rest of us sinners.....that’s what I was agreeing with.
NO! I am definitely not RCC! I was agreeing with B-A-C that Mary was the mother of Jesus, but she was born with original sin, just like us. She did have other children...4 boys and at least 3 girls. She died just like we will. And we need Jesus to intercede for us, not Mary! And I also believe that Babies should be dedicated to God. We need to either accept or deny Jesus when we reach the age of accountability. And I also believe in the gift of being baptized in the Holy Spirit and speaking in other tongues. And if we turn our back on God and decide to follow a path of evil the Holy Spirit will leave us.
Following God's Word should not end up becoming the 'demonizing' of anyone. Jesus Christ tells us in John 14:6 that "I am the way, the truth and the life,no man comes to the Father,but by Me" That is Jesus Christ talking.
Christianity is what God has already done For everyone through the death, burial and bodily resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ. The shed blood of Jesus Christ.
Well -- what does the RCC teach. That's what we've been talking about. KingJ wanted to delve into that. But it would apply to Any belief system.
As Dave M was commenting -- there are those who don't believe that Jesus Christ Is the Son of God.
Just before eternity begins -- Everyone will appear at the White Throne Judgment -- everyone Will Eventually acknowledge God's existence and that He is God Almighty.
No one is supposed to be 'judging' anyone -- but we Are to be in God's Word -- sharing the Gospel unto salvation will all who will listen.
But we know that there are religious belief systems that don't teach God's Word. Or they choose to add To God's Word with man-made concepts. God's Word is given to us as sufficient -- nothing else is needed.
The sealing function of the Holy Spirit -- Ephesians 1: 13 - 14 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, v 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."
We are to look for opportunities to share the Gospel unto salvation with people -- because Now is the time to do that -- it is up to the individual to either accept or reject.
2 John says someone who doesn't confess Christ came in the flesh is anti-Christ. JW'S believe in Christ came in the flesh. They reject the Trinity and so do I, and the Trinity is not what John is referring to.
Dave M
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They Reject Jesus being God the bible clearly says they are one. The JW are not Christian they do not submit themselves to Jesus as Lord and savior.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
John 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
John 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The problem is everybody believes they are following God's Word, yet Christians can hardly agree on anything - they all think they have the truth - yet they have differences in doctrine. Catholic's believe in Christ the very same way most Christians do. Protestants have distorted so many things about Catholic's and I stay away from any Church that badmouths them behind the pulpit. I don't know of one Church that denies Jesus is the son of God. JW'S believe he is so to say they don't is slander.
There is good and bad in every church. There is truth and heresy in every church. The sooner we stop bad-mouthing one another, the sooner the church will stop looking like it's full of hypocrites to the outside world.
Brother-Paul
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It is important that we do not judge, that is what we are told not to do, thank you Sue for confirming we are Not Judging anyone.
We are all warning of false prophets, false Christ's, false teaching, but it is I important for us all to remember...
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
We are also therefore, as members of the ekkesia, the Body of Christ His Church, expected to, make clear, point out errors, give loving correction, for instruction in righteousness, which is when ever we come across wrong teaching of any kind. We are thoroughly equipped for this work, in Jesus Name.
Where would the church be today if it had not been for the reformation? We would be RCC members following what the pope says, following what we are told by the RC fathers, believing wrong teaching. The Holy Spirit broke their controlling powers and set the True Church Free. Yes the RCC continues as do many others with wrong teaching. If we do not make clear what scripture says who will? It is not for us to say, they won't listen, we are to make clear the errors in a loving way, pray in Jesus Name and leave it to the Holy Spirit.
We are to Commissioned to share The Good News, which includes as Timothy says, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness.
Matthew 28:16-20 (NKJV)
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them [to all disciples of Christ] saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
In Jesus Name Amen
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I think some of the likeness' being used on the RCC Crosses and Statues come from the image found on the Shroud of Turin. For the belief is that it has the face of Jesus imprinted upon it. RCC has not made any official statement either way, though one Pope John Paul II did make the comment concerning the Shroud of "a mirror of the Gospel". The dating of the Shroud goes to having been created sometime around the 1300's, but who can say for sure (shrug).
I just know that we will know Him when we see Him, just like when we hear His voice, we know it's Him. We don't need man made images, depicting our Lord, by which one would pray or worship to. Especially since the Cross has our Lord still hanging on it when shown by the RCC. Our Lord is Risen, and that is who we need to be seeing and talking to. There in is our relationship, and not with wood, metal or stone.
Just wanted to add this little tidbit to the discussion :shades:
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Sue D,
re: "No one is supposed to be 'judging' anyone..."
Maybe, maybe not. However, there are those who think Colossians 2:16 -17 is saying not to let anyone judge the Colossians for how they were observing the supreme being's dietary rules or His holy days, new moons or sabbaths other than the body of Christ which is the Church (Colossians 1:24).
re: "No one is supposed to be 'judging' anyone..."
Maybe, maybe not. However, there are those who think Colossians 2:16 -17 is saying not to let anyone judge the Colossians for how they were observing the supreme being's dietary rules or His holy days, new moons or sabbaths other than the body of Christ which is the Church (Colossians 1:24).
B-A-C
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Do you think God appreciates people twisting His Words? Do you think He'll "let it slide"?
Rev 2:14; 'But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.
Rev 2:15; 'So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
Rev 2:16; 'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.
It says here, Jesus is going to make war... against the church!! Not "His" church who are holding to His teachings. I notice the words "teach" and "teachings" above.
Jesus is going to make war with them because of what they teach!
Rev 2:20; 'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.
Rev 2:21; 'I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.
Rev 2:22; 'Behold, I will throw her on a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.
Rev 2:23; 'And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.
It says here Jesus is going to cause them sickness and tribulation, and He will kill "her children" with pestilence. Why? They tolerate Jezebel, and she "teaches" (there is that teach word again) them
to believe and do things contrary to true scripture.
Rev 2:24; 'But I say to you, the rest who are in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not known the deep things of Satan, as they call them—I place no other burden on you.
It is the ones who don't follow these teachings He won't punish.
2 Cor 6:15; Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?
2 Cor 11:4; For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you go ahead and accept these teachings willingly.
It seems to me... The Bible demonizes twisting of scripture, accepting the book of Mormon, and the Watchtower (a different gospel).
2 Tim 4:3; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
Jas 3:1; Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
This applies to all of us... everyone who has posted a message here... we consider ourselves "the teachers"., We will be held accountable to what we teach.
That goes for you, me, and everyone who promotes a teaching or doctrine here.
1 Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
Matt 7:15; "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
The Mormon church calls Joseph Smith "a prophet".
2 Cor 11:13; For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
We are told to test these people.
Rev 2:2; 'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;
What we believe matters. Our doctrine matters. Entire threads have been written here on TalkJesus about false Christs, false doctrines, false teachers, wolves among the sheep.
Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
There are about a dozen of these people posting messages here on TalkJesus quite frequently, some of them almost everyday.
Rev 22:18; I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
Rev 22:19; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.
I see this every single week here on TalkJesus, sometimes almost everyday. Half scriptures, paraphrased, scriptures, things that aren't even in the Bible at all.
and yet these people seemingly do not know.... God will either add plagues to them, or take them away from the tree of life and the New Jerusalem.
If they do know it... they seemingly do not care or do not believe God.
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My post #112 was referring back to #101 - - was in response to 'judging / demonizing other belief systems by Protestants. -- thus -- no one is to be 'judging' anyone or their beliefs.
And that is 'past history' as the saying goes. Just wanted to clerify the 'judging' comment.
And that is 'past history' as the saying goes. Just wanted to clerify the 'judging' comment.
Yes, but you were quoting one of My posts and responding back To it. The post By me was talking about the contents of that previous post #101.
And, yes, I realize that #112 was Your post.
The 'judging' that You brought up in your verses is an entirely different subject than I had been talking about.
{EDIT: Sue, i think you made a typo and you did quote post #112 but let us all move on from that - Br. Bear]
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Post in Peace [everybody]
by grace we are saved
The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression.
Proverbs 19:11
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1Corinthians 13:1-13
Bless you ....><>
by grace we are saved
The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression.
Proverbs 19:11
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
1Corinthians 13:1-13
Bless you ....><>
