as a christian i believe that i am the property of God. i belong to him and am in his possession. most would agree with me on this, but then they would say that: though it is not gods will that we fall away, we still have the choice to do so. first of all, how can your will to do something overpower gods will to do something else? if god wants to keep me in his fold, that is exactly where i am going to stay. if it were within my power to fall away by my own choice, that would mean god wasn't capable of keeping what belonged to him. it would be difficult to put my faith in such a god as that.
Calvinism
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as a christian i believe that i am the property of God. i belong to him and am in his possession. most would agree with me on this, but then they would say that: though it is not gods will that we fall away, we still have the choice to do so. first of all, how can your will to do something overpower gods will to do something else? if god wants to keep me in his fold, that is exactly where i am going to stay. if it were within my power to fall away by my own choice, that would mean god wasn't capable of keeping what belonged to him. it would be difficult to put my faith in such a god as that.
Are you saying that God takes pleasure in people going to hell?
anything that has ever happened in the history of the world has been done according to God's pleasure. it's a perk of being a totally sovereign God. God has no obligation to do anything therefore what he does,he does because it is what he wants to do. and yes this includes punishing all those who have sinned. But in his mercy he plucked some of us out of our sinfulness to be counted as a Son of God. God makes some as vessels of honor and others as vessels of dishonor
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Wrong.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
our free will is corrupted by our sinful nature and our sinful nature is in complete rebellion against god. with our free will being corrupted as it is, it would never even consider accepting Christ. the father must choose us before we are capable of following his son, and once he has chosen us what power do we have to get out his hand?
Bambi
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Beloved
In 2 Peter 3:9 Peter is talking about the elect. In verse 8, he uses the word, Beloved.
If we take it your way. God is a liar or is not capable of "not willing that any should perish". Because there are people who are perishing and going to Hell.
In 2 Peter 3:9 Peter is talking about the elect. In verse 8, he uses the word, Beloved.
If we take it your way. God is a liar or is not capable of "not willing that any should perish". Because there are people who are perishing and going to Hell.
How about some scripture to support your opinion:wink:
Romans 9:21
Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
its not an opinion. god does what he wants. how can anybody say any different? what obligations does he have? none.
Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
its not an opinion. god does what he wants. how can anybody say any different? what obligations does he have? none.
HoneyBare
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Now I'm more confused than before.
So, If Calvinism is correct, then I should just give up praying for the Salvation of my dh and trust God to - what? - save or not save him?
Because what will be will be? It is soooo confusing. Which is the right way to pray?
Even with all the verses to confirm what you believe, it is still confusing. Maybe even more so. Sorry. That's just how I feel right now.
Maybe it's just not as important as I'm taking it. I don't know. I tend to get intense on stuff like this. My dh thinks I'm pretty fanatical on religion and is not worried about much. Maybe that should be the way I look at this. After all "God only knows." Where ever that came from! :shock:
So, If Calvinism is correct, then I should just give up praying for the Salvation of my dh and trust God to - what? - save or not save him?
Because what will be will be? It is soooo confusing. Which is the right way to pray?
Even with all the verses to confirm what you believe, it is still confusing. Maybe even more so. Sorry. That's just how I feel right now.
Maybe it's just not as important as I'm taking it. I don't know. I tend to get intense on stuff like this. My dh thinks I'm pretty fanatical on religion and is not worried about much. Maybe that should be the way I look at this. After all "God only knows." Where ever that came from! :shock:
OnceWasLost
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Thanks, I think I get it. Even though the non-elect are doomed and can't ever be saved, the world they live in is better than it would have been otherwise, so that's what the Gospel offers to the non-elect under Calvanism.
I don't know, I'm just trying to understand what Calvanism is. I was refering to Chad's post at the beginning of this thread. He said that one of the differences between Calvanism and Hypercalvanism is that Hypercalvinism "denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal" and Calvanism doesn't.
the gospel doesn't offer anything to the non elect because unless you are elect you won't accept the gospel.
I agree with you that God does as He sees fit, and that He uses some for good and some for bad. Ofcourse Pharoah and Judas are very good examples. But it is all to accomplish His will and purpose.
What do you think about this verse of scripture?
Rom 11:32 For God has imprisoned all people in their own disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
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HoneyBare I thank God first that I did not have the internet in my time so it was The Word of God and me. Because of influences of different opinion of people' belief it can get very confusing.
I hope you continue to read the Word of God and learn without a shadow of a doubt in what you believe. As you pray sweetie God will direct you and will not lead you in the wrong way.
I hope you continue to read the Word of God and learn without a shadow of a doubt in what you believe. As you pray sweetie God will direct you and will not lead you in the wrong way.
Rom 11:32 For God has imprisoned all people in their own disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
Bambi
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Since all is a pronoun what's the proper noun of this passage?
well according to this translation, people and or everyone.:wink:
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OnceWasLost
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In the OP, Chad said that one of the differences between Calvanism and Hypercalvanism is that Hypercalvanism "denies the gospel offer to the non-elect" whereas Calvanism doesn't. Would you say that's accurate and do you consider yourself a Hypercalvanist?
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