Can a Christian lose his/her Salvation or do they have Eternal Security?

[PloughBoy]

Seems to me that you were undone by investing in faulty doctrines ...
First Pentecostal Christians do not go to Heaven [actually nobody does] - when Christ Jesus returns he will gather his elect and bring them with them into what is left of Jerusalem to assist him establish his rule and government
upon the Earth.
The dead in Christ and we who are left alive will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye and rise up to be with Jesus when he comes in power and glory - the faithful shall enter the eternities with new bodies.
Souls are not tormented forever in Hell, but in the second resurrection and the judgement of all remaining souls before Jesus those whose names are not written in the books of life will be cast out into a lake of fire.
A God of love will judge with righteousness and wisdom all remaining humans knowing what destruction spiritually satan and his hordes have done upon humankind since the beginning.
For the greater part of humanity have only ever suffered poverty, oppression, war, disease, false religion ...

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat thereon, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and booklets were opened: and another booklet was opened, which is that of life: and the dead were judged out of the things written in the booklets, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead in them: and they were judged each according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice that these verses teach us that not everybody are thrown into the lake of fire.
These verses teach us that in this judgement yes people do have their names written in the books of life - otherwise there would be no need for such a judgement and opening of the books.
Take heart my friend that God is a God of love and righteousness and knows that millions upon millions of people suffered much at the hands of demons and their false religions.

Waggles​

Treat that one very lightly: Revelation 20;15. and take a little look at it with a fine Microscope.
And i will give the reason. Just maybe The reason, at The GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT it was presented "The Book of LIFE" for evidence and surety for those convicted to The Lake of Fire And Brimstone. "Your Name Is Not Here" You can Look for yourself.Your name is not here! EVERY BODY is GOING to WANT to SEE if There has not been a "MISTAKE"! And God does not mind letting them see He has the time to let everybody check the Record!

The Great White Throne JUDGMENT, I think, all of them are DOOM!

Rev 20:15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

Would not you want to have a Look?
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" {What You Mean My Name Is Not In There, Let Me See}

Your Quote:
Notice that these verses teach us that not everybody are thrown into the lake of fire.
These verses teach us that in this judgement yes people do have their names written in the books of life - otherwise there would be no need for such a judgement and opening of the books."

Why not have a little fun, And get The rest to thinking. and scare them into the Kingdom. "OPEN UP and let me in NOW"! I do not care if we Catch one fish by the bait we use! I do not care if we let down the net and they jump in!

Behold I will make you "FISHERMEN of MEN"

American Standard Version (Jude 1:23)
"and some save, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

Contemporary English Version
"Rescue any who need to be saved, as you would rescue someone from a fire. Then with fear in your own hearts, have mercy on everyone who needs it. But hate even the clothes of those who have been made dirty by their filthy deeds."

Behold we are suppose to be As if we are "SKILLED FISHERMEN". and The Oceans we fish in, Have all kinds, from every nation and tribes. Some mouths are hard and some mouths are soft Some we let them bite and some we must "SET The HOOK". some we let run and some after setting the Hook we reel them in although they fight we give them, not the HOOK.

I grew up in the GREAT LAKES, "BIG WALLEYE" Big bass, COHO Salmon, Chinook Salmon, Northern Pike, Muskie, Steelhead, Bass, Hard mouth and soft mouth Game fish. when the lakes were clean. Even From the banks I did Fish, even Caught The "MUSKIE" fishing in "Waders" with a 6 pound test line.

You understand.

Can a Christian lose his/her Salvation or do they have Eternal Security?​

How can anyone loose "Eternal LIFE"? Unless they it was A "Temporary Life" Policy and they thought it was a "ETERNAL" POLICY. my advice check your assurance "Policy HOLDER".

 

[PloughBoy]

Behold i will make you Fishermen of Men. I caught one with a "6 pound test line". "and all things work together for the Good...ff."

Great Lakes Muskies - In-Fisherman

The Great Lakes boast some of the finest muskie fishing in North America. Green Bay fish are

www.in-fisherman.com

 

[KingJ]

Yep. I don't want to stumble weak Christians. So please beware. As a lay preacher I was one Sunday night giving a Gospel sermon. When I mentioned that only born again believers who have become New Creatures in Christ can enter Heaven. Unbelievers can't and their lot is eternal torment in hell. It struck me as I said that that very few will go to heaven and many more will go to hell. Why? When hell is such a terrible place did a God of love create it. I know it was created for the Devil and fallen angels. Nevertheless humans will also end up there. Why would a God of Love do that? From there my faith began to unravel like a ball of string. I won't go any further into my deconversion. It is not a pleasant experience to lose your faith. But it is what it is. Thank you.

Many misteach hell. Dantes inferno type hell and people weeping and gnashing their teeth from fire is not mentioned anywhere in scripture.

Whether God created hell for the devil or humans is a moot argument as humans are creations just beneath angels Heb 2:7. There will be no such thing as humans suffering unbearable punishments as hell was created for ''angels''.
Misteaching hell increases attendance and helps book sales on the topic. Nobody wants to read a book about a hell that a good God creates. They prefer a hell the devil will create. If anyone think the devil's vision of hell is not driving something like Dante's inferno, they do not know God according to scripture.

Note how scripture confirms this in 1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love and says this in Psalm 145:17 God is righteous in all His ways and this in 1 John 1:5 God is light with no darkness in Him at all. and this in Num 23:19 God is not a human that will change His mind.

Are we truly surprised that there be epic false teaching on the future punishment of the wicked. False teaching painting God as the most wicked being to ever live? The bible is full of warnings about false teaching and the devil being the master of lies John 8:44. The devil and all false teachers truly battle to incriminate God with the past and present. The vastly unknown future is their best platform.

Join our conversation here What to expect in hell.

 

[KingJ]

Salvation is not a reward for faith; it is a gift that no one deserves, but it can ONLY be received by faith.

I am in agreement until this line.

Many get confused on the topic of faith. The word faith is simply a verb of belief in the unseen being seen.

We need to be very specific on what faith exactly we are referring to in Christianity. So I need to ask you, what faith is needed to receive salvation?

Christian faith is faith that Jesus is Lord. This is a faith given to us by the Holy Spirit 1 Cor 12:3. It is impossible to call Jesus Lord without the Holy Spirit.

We can have faith in Jesus being a miracle worker. But that is not near to what is needed to believe He is Lord of all and risen from the dead.

I explain this further here What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

When faith is gone so is your salvation. The two are mutually inclusive.

Rom 10:9 " That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt

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in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

How faith is lost is another discussion.

Completely disagree.

If our faith was a candid ''unseen is seen'' kind of faith as many have in Santa Claus, sure. I would agree. But it is not.

When we become a Christian, we are given a measure of faith Rom 12:3, we hear God's voice John 10:27, He reaches out to us James 4:8, He makes Himself known to us / the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit Rom 8:16, we get a revelation of Jesus being Lord 1 Cor 12:3.

Example, in Matt 16:16-17, Peter got a revelation of Jesus being the Messiah. Do you think that after that revelation from above he would ever doubt who Jesus was?

There are three truths to the hypothesis you create:

1. They were a 1 Cor 5:11 type 'Christians so called' who only 'tasted' of the things of God.
2. They are walking in rebellion and entertaining any anti God dogma.
3. They are deceived.

Being deceived is likely the most common reality. Very important for a Christian to ''know they are in Christ'' as Paul explains in 2 Cor 13:5.

But whether deceived or not, please re-read the bottom section of my post number 10. If we were true Christians, we can forget God, but God will not forget us.

 

[Brother Paul]

As an friendly ex Christian i would like to introduce this debate topic.

Please for clarity sake lets assume that we are discussing Christians as per NT Bible definitions and not nominal or cultural Christians.

1. John 3: 3 “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
   
2. 1. John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

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To state that a Christian has eternal security and cannot lose his salvation would imply that:

1. All ex Christians were never Christians in the first place.
2. they are still Christians.

Any agree or disagree?

1 John 2:19 reads "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

NO ONE truly born of His Spirit can EVER deny Christ (Romans 8:9) any more than biological Victor can ever deny he is the biological offspring of his biological MOTHER. Now I know many are told they are His and are told they have eternal life and are "born again", but they are not (Matthew 25:1-13).

Somehow, or for some reason, they joined the club of Churchianity (maybe they repeated some magic words or someone gave them a bath) but when He returns He will shut the door of Salvation in their face, because He never knew them (Matthew 7:23). And apparently He never Knew You. He knows of you but you were never one of His. Remember Simon Magi in Acts 8? It is written that he believed and was baptized (but his heart was wrong before God. No! When we are truly born from above, we slowly become conformed to His image (1 Peter 2:21; 1 John 2:6). Our spirit becomes like His Spirit. We begin to think more and more like Him and act more and more like Him (Matthew 25:31-46). But it is not too late Vic. Please consider what I have said.

 

[Victor VanHeerden]

Many misteach hell. Dantes inferno type hell and people weeping and gnashing their teeth from fire is not mentioned anywhere in scripture.

Whether God created hell for the devil or humans is a moot argument as humans are creations just beneath angels Heb 2:7. There will be no such thing as humans suffering unbearable punishments as hell was created for ''angels''.
Misteaching hell increases attendance and helps book sales on the topic. Nobody wants to read a book about a hell that a good God creates. They prefer a hell the devil will create. If anyone think the devil's vision of hell is not driving something like Dante's inferno, they do not know God according to scripture.

Note how scripture confirms this in 1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love and says this in Psalm 145:17 God is righteous in all His ways and this in 1 John 1:5 God is light with no darkness in Him at all. and this in Num 23:19 God is not a human that will change His mind.

Are we truly surprised that there be epic false teaching on the future punishment of the wicked. False teaching painting God as the most wicked being to ever live? The bible is full of warnings about false teaching and the devil being the master of lies John 8:44. The devil and all false teachers truly battle to incriminate God with the past and present. The vastly unknown future is their best platform.

Join our conversation here What to expect in hell.

Hell according to how i was taught - goes like this.

The lake of fire was not intended for people but for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

God’s purpose and desire for humanity has always been good. The first heaven and earth were created good.

Genesis 1:31 - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good...

God will not allow Satan to spoil the new heaven and the new earth which are to come. Therefore God will shut him off in the lake of fire. And here is the crux those who are not allowed into heaven due to their unbelief, which blots their name out of the book of life, will follow Satan to his doom.

John 16:8,11, And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: · Of sin, because they believe not on me

for they have Satan, not God, as their father.

John 8:44.You belong to your father, the devil.....

The Sin of Unbelief will cause you to be classed as one with the Devil. Of his family and offspring. Thus the same punishment due for the Devil is the unbelievers destiny as well. God sees clearly here. You are either a Child of God or a Child of the Devil. Now if we look at what God thinks of the devil ( for another post)- you will get a fright because that is what he thinks of an unbeliever and Child of the Devil.

Whosoever is not found written in the Book of Life, together with the devil and his angels, the beast and the false prophet, will be consigned to everlasting punishment in “the fiery lake of burning sulfur: This is the second death.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Matt 25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.

Notice God says Eternal Punishment - not eternal separation or oblivion.

Mark 9:43–48 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off.

Rev 20; 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life:

Jesus’ words in Luke 16 show us that the wicked remain conscious and are aware of their state and of what they have missed.

Jesus called the eternal fire "Gehenna". When i was in Jerusalem the guide showed us a place actually called Gehenna where all the rubbish from the city was burnt day and night. So that is what he was referencing - an everlasting fire. A fire that can not even be put out.

Mark 9:43, If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

This clearly indicates that there can be no possible end to the fire or the punishment. The punishment is as eternal as the fire. If the fire brought an annihilation of the wicked, there would be no reason for the fire being eternal.

Therefore hell is not a nice place but a place of eternal punishment, via horrendous sufferings, torment and torture. Of course our modern day sensibilities shun at the thought of this. But that is Biblical hell.

Hebrews. 6: 1 Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity, without laying the foundation all over again: repentance from dead works and faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms, and laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

 

[KingJ]

Therefore hell is not a nice place but a place of eternal punishment, via horrendous sufferings, torment and torture. Of course our modern day sensibilities shun at the thought of this. But that is Biblical hell.

I can agree with all you have written, apart from this line. You have inserted horrendous sufferings and torture. These are not scriptures but assumptions.

Punishment I don't disagree with. There is a punishment of separation and a fire of sort every time someone sins. Please can we keep discussion on hell to this thread here What to expect in hell. I explain my A-Z view in the OP.