Can God do evil?

[KingJ]

Invalid question when "you" instead of God says whats good or evil. Yes, you are capable of seeing evil and good in some things, but your fallen state keeps you from being "perfect" in your perception of whats good or evil.

Brad, you, @B-A-C and @Dave M are all making the same mistaken assumption about the topic and argument being raised.

I am going to try and be very clear.

1. God gave you eyes.

If you use them, you will see things. See things like people crying. People screaming from pain.

2. God gave you ears.

Ears can hear people hurting, screaming and crying.

3. God gave you a brain.

Your brain is able to grasp that if someone is crying they are hurt. If someone is screaming they are in torture.

Now, when God acts in Scripture and today, He enters our physical realm and heals people, helps people with their problems, wipes away tears.

God has given us the tools to both grasp good and evil and to discern it.

Genesis 3:22 even says man has come to know good and evil. So the idea that we are somehow incapable of recognizing it is not what the text says.

The argument that our “fallen state” makes us unable to recognize good and evil collapses immediately if taken seriously. If that were true, then you could not say murder is evil. You could not say torture is evil. You could not even say lying or stealing is evil. Yet everyone here has no problem identifying those things as wrong.

Why? Because the recognition is not complicated. When someone is unjustly harmed, that is evil. When someone is helped, protected, healed, or restored, that is good.

So no, this idea that good and evil are some mysterious category forever beyond human understanding is not supported by Scripture or by reality.

God created humans with the capacity to recognize suffering, injustice, kindness, mercy, and love. The entire moral language of Scripture assumes we can recognize those things.

Otherwise commands like “love your neighbor,” “do justice,” and “show mercy” would be meaningless, because we would have no ability to recognize when those things are happening.

So the claim that humans cannot judge good and evil is not humility. It actually undermines the entire moral framework that Scripture itself appeals to.

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It is true that we cannot grasp God. He is beyond us. But we can grasp all that is in our environment. This includes everything in our / mankind's past, present and future.

In our human space, God has chosen to act within a moral framework.

Yes, God is God. In His absolute being He could operate in ways far beyond anything we understand. But when He deals with mankind, He does not operate in some unknowable category beyond good and evil.

He consistently speaks to us in moral terms. Justice, mercy, righteousness, wickedness, love, and sin.

That is the framework He Himself chose to reveal and operate within when interacting with humanity.

And if God chooses to deal with mankind in that framework, then it follows that mankind must be capable of recognizing those categories in order for His commands, judgments, and teachings to have any meaning.

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Considering all the above, it becomes clear that to suggest we cannot judge good and evil, even the morality of God is simply insulting to our intelligence, insulting to God and makes a mockery of all scripture.

Not to mention, imagine being 'that' person that is fine with serving a god he believes is doing evil and can't call him out for it. Just a real cringey Christian position to take!!

 

[joestue]

You do these cringey one liner snippets instead of addressing the whole post and its context. The verse you referring to was not used for the 'end times' it was used to explain purpose for a millennium which is after the 'end times'. Perhaps better read and put some effort into your posts?

a cringe worthy distinction without a difference.

God has treated children as young as 7 as adults from as early as Samuel's calling.

 

[KingJ]

a cringe worthy distinction without a difference.

God has treated children as young as 7 as adults from as early as Samuel's calling.

The only passage in the entirety of scripture that gives an actual age of accountability is Num 14:29.

That God can use children is a completely separate topic.

 

[joestue]

The only passage in the entirety of scripture that gives an actual age of accountability is Num 14:29.

sure, but it didn't need to.
the Jews for thousands of years set it at the barmitzfah at age 13.

if God isn't going to hold 12 to 20 year olds accountable.. man i've got a bridge to sell you on mars...

 

[KingJ]

sure, but it didn't need to.
the Jews for thousands of years set it at the barmitzfah at age 13.

if God isn't going to hold 12 to 20 year olds accountable.. man i've got a bridge to sell you on mars...

Joe, Jewish tradition is not always scriptural. Paul says in 1 Cor 6:1-9 that Christians must judge matters better than the unsaved. The unsaved know to not punish minors the same as adults.

You need to understand that punishment in the wilderness Num 14 = eternal hell in a place called the lake of fire.

All under twenty, babies, minors, teens and all mentally handicapped, will have the perfect opportunity to live out a normal life in the coming millennium of peace and be tested by the devil at the end of it.

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

The suggestion that those in the tribulation who have been thoroughly tested by both God's plagues and the devil with his mark, will live on into the millennium to be re-tested at the end is extremely illogical.

There are 17 verses in scripture that say that God is impartial and well over a hundred that He is just. Impartial and just means that if He put the devil with Adam and Eve to test them, He will do likewise with all. Impartial and just means that if He gives all under twenty in the wilderness more time to allow their minds to further develop and choose the right path, He will do so with all under twenty.

You are telling me that you will sit down with God and ask Him to send a 12 year old to eternal fire? You need to meditate more on the topic. It is easy to type and say something silly without thinking. We all do it. But God does not, He does not make mistakes. As Christians we must be so careful of misrepresenting scripture and incriminating Him.

 

[joestue]

Joe, Jewish tradition is not always scriptural. Paul says in 1 Cor 6:1-9 that Christians must judge matters better than the unsaved. The unsaved know to not punish minors the same as adults.

well aware. they also believe in reincarnation, as well as some mystical stuff like parts of people's souls that haven't fully matured yet can be attached to living persons for a time.

also, you should read this for more insight into what paul was talking about with regard to "all israel"

Mashiach – The Second Adam

www.betemunah.org

as for 7 to 20 year olds.. yes, absolutely if they are not mentally ill they will be held accountable for all of their actions.

and in my case, i was 6 at the time....

 

[joestue]

the age of 20 being the cut off for the issues at a national level wrt Moses, etc... its just like how God isn't going to hold anyone under the age of 18 accountable for electing corrupt public officials to office. they aren't old enough to vote..

 

[KingJ]

well aware. they also believe in reincarnation, as well as some mystical stuff like parts of people's souls that haven't fully matured yet can be attached to living persons for a time.

also, you should read this for more insight into what paul was talking about with regard to "all israel"

Mashiach – The Second Adam

www.betemunah.org

as for 7 to 20 year olds.. yes, absolutely if they are not mentally ill they will be held accountable for all of their actions.

and in my case, i was 6 at the time....

I appreciate you sharing your perspective. My point isn’t to dismiss accountability entirely. But we have to accept that scripture, specifically Num 14:29 is the only passage in all scripture that seems to indicate an age of accountability. And by accountability, I mean being judged as fully responsible, potentially deserving of eternal punishment.

 

[KingJ]

the age of 20 being the cut off for the issues at a national level wrt Moses, etc... its just like how God isn't going to hold anyone under the age of 18 accountable for electing corrupt public officials to office. they aren't old enough to vote..

That makes sense, Joe, I like the comparison. Just as humans set age limits for things like voting, Scripture seems to show God also considers age and maturity in accountability. Numbers 14:29 being a rare example. Beyond that, we can trust God judges perfectly, knowing each person’s understanding and responsibility

 

[joestue]

I mean being judged as fully responsible, potentially deserving of eternal punishment.

You cant have both a fixed age cut off and a God who grades on a curve at the same time.

I know sub 85 IQ 20 year olds who don't have the maturity needed to stop playing video games at midnight when they need to wake up at 8 am.
Contrast with others such as a Chinese girl who at age 12 are playing piano for nation audiences, and they behave from my point of view to be of a similar maturity level to 18-20 year old girls from my own country.

 

[KingJ]

You cant have both a fixed age cut off and a God who grades on a curve at the same time.

I know sub 85 IQ 20 year olds who don't have the maturity needed to stop playing video games at midnight when they need to wake up at 8 am.
Contrast with others such as a Chinese girl who at age 12 are playing piano for nation audiences, and they behave from my point of view to be of a similar maturity level to 18-20 year old girls from my own country.

I see your point, but I think God’s impartiality actually argues the other way. If He set a distinction in Numbers 14:29 for those under twenty, that wouldn’t be arbitrary or “grading on a curve”. It would be a consistent standard applied equally to everyone.

Impartiality means He doesn’t shift the bar from person to person. Differences in maturity may exist, but if God establishes an age-based exemption, then it would apply uniformly, not selectively. That seems more consistent with a just and impartial judgment

 

[joestue]

It would be a consistent standard applied equally to everyone.

just keep making stuff up man.

have you ever even had to interact with mentally ill adults?

 

[bellaj]

King J would you consider killing a baby evil??

Abba can do what He pleases lol

⁽⁠⁽⁠ଘ⁠(⁠ ⁠ˊ⁠ᵕ⁠ˋ⁠ ⁠)⁠ଓ⁠⁾⁠⁾

Forums are acting up for me but I can respond to both:

No one ever said anything about killing babies, but even so... It's not evil to do so, lol. We all die, some of us just faster than others.

Abba is a Swedish pop group that reached popularity in the 70's. The bible wasn't invented until roughly 600BC, well before the printing press so you can't really use them as an argument.

 

[KingJ]

just keep making stuff up man.

No Joe, Impartial means treating all the same. Not moving the bar for some. That would be partial.

have you ever even had to interact with mentally ill adults?

As I have stated in prior posts, I believe all under twenty and the mentally ill will get a second chance in the millennium of peace. This touches once more on Christians needing to judge matters better than the unsaved 1 Cor 6:1-9. The unsaved know to punish mentally ill differently. How much more us and how much more God.

I would not say that an adult over twenty who has chosen a lifestyle of gaming and is immature as a result, is 'exempt'.

 

[KingJ]

No one ever said anything about killing babies, but even so... It's not evil to do so, lol. We all die, some of us just faster than others.
nt.

This is terrible. You surely don't mean this?

 

[Twistie]

Forums are acting up for me but I can respond to both:

No one ever said anything about killing babies, but even so... It's not evil to do so, lol. We all die, some of us just faster than others.

Abba is a Swedish pop group that reached popularity in the 70's. The bible wasn't invented until roughly 600BC, well before the printing press so you can't really use them as an argument.

I know what Abba is in the ways of the world been here for a minute lol..

Abba (אבא) is a Hebrew and Aramaic word meaning "father," "my father," or "daddy". It signifies a deeply personal, intimate, and respectful connection..

I guess depending on where ones mindset it will show by how one refers to words..

Hope all's well!..

(⁠θ⁠‿⁠θ⁠)

 

[joestue]

and the mentally ill will get a second chance

who judges who they are?