MedicBravo
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We have too much division in the church.
IMO, this video does very well in explaining how we should be more unified and understanding the similarities and difference in the two groups.
Catholics Vs Protestants: Who is Right? 11-2-24
- Thread starter MedicBravo
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We have too much division in the church.
IMO, this video does very well in explaining how we should be more unified and understanding the similarities and difference in the two groups.
Foghorn
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but nowhere can we find that protestants and Roman Catholics are brothers in the lord. There is no unity there.
MedicBravo
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The majority of Catholics will end friendships and familial relationships with non-Catholcs and so very easily
Brad Huber
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Every Roman Catholic I have ever known never ended friendships or family relationships with protestants. And I have known a lot of them.
Twistie
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I was brought up roman Catholic never ended a friendship over religion fact of the matter my first two children I had baptized protestant because of the preachers ways.. that's was still when I was walking with my back to the Lord..
But Abba revealed to me it's all gonna fall
¯\_༼ᴼل͜ᴼ༽_/¯
Rhema
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While I appreciate the sentiment, I stopped watching the video when the guy just completely blew by the Great Schism of 1054 and ignored the real Catholic church known as the Orthodox Catholic (which came before the Roman Catholics).
It doesn't help that he also did not understand where the label Protestant came from. The Electors of the Emperor protested against the authority of the Emperor to establish the religious faith of the empire. And that would be Charles V, the emperor of the Holy Roman Empire (of the Germanic Nations).
The key doctrine of Christianity is how one gets saved, and there just will be no reconciliation on that doctrine.
Peace,
Rhema
Brad Huber
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They great schism was the first split, but it was less over religious or doctrinal difference, it was to the best of my knowledge a political divorce due to unfullfilled expectations sort of on both sides.
KingJ
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There is no disagreement on that. Why would you say, 'no reconciliation'? Not sure what I am missing.
I would think Catholiscim. . . commandments of dying mankind government was passed on from a law of the old testament fathers . Oral traditons of Pharisees with Sadaucesss . A dark place no gospel light
We are informed there must be heresies or sects among us .The kingdom of Christ does not come by looking at the dying historical temporal.
Believers walk or understand by faith the unseen invisible things of Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
In that way there must be oral traditons as to differences in opinion in what they think scripture is teaching Except for the fullness of grace denying the bought them.
That kind of oral tradition damnable is not forgivable (Blasphemy against the Father)
Lord
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Catholicism accredits the fullness of grace alone to a Queen of heaven mother named after our sister in the Lord Mary. .Queen mother Just as the Pharisees with Sadaucesss.
The rest of the world a remnant of grace a un-knowable So they must suffer wonder, suffer wonder, suffer wonder, with no end of salvation in sight
They call sola scriptura (all things written in the law and prophets) heresy so they could keep thier own lies to wonder, wonder, wonder after. As if it was true prophecy
.Believers receive the fulness of grace from the beginning.
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
We are informed there must be heresies or sects among us .The kingdom of Christ does not come by looking at the dying historical temporal.
Believers walk or understand by faith the unseen invisible things of Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
In that way there must be oral traditons as to differences in opinion in what they think scripture is teaching Except for the fullness of grace denying the bought them.
That kind of oral tradition damnable is not forgivable (Blasphemy against the Father)
Lord
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Catholicism accredits the fullness of grace alone to a Queen of heaven mother named after our sister in the Lord Mary. .Queen mother Just as the Pharisees with Sadaucesss.
The rest of the world a remnant of grace a un-knowable So they must suffer wonder, suffer wonder, suffer wonder, with no end of salvation in sight
They call sola scriptura (all things written in the law and prophets) heresy so they could keep thier own lies to wonder, wonder, wonder after. As if it was true prophecy
.Believers receive the fulness of grace from the beginning.
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
KingJ
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Everything you type that you believe is correct, Catholics teach. What you state they do teach, is incorrect. You are making terribly incorrect assumptions. If you are going to attack someone's belief, do so properly. Show that have properly studied their actual teaching! This is a shocking post.
Catholics do teach that a heavenly Queen entity named Mary alone received the fullness of grace .
The rest of the planet a unknow amount of grace .Introducing the wondering, wondering doctrine of Limbo.
Why do you think Limbo and purgatory are needed if Christ has paid the full wage fulness of grace?
KingJ
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They don't. Please be specific / give more detail.
Again, not sure what you mean, please be specific and clear.
Can you explain to me as to what exactly is evil with a belief of God giving many a second chance before He casts them into an eternal lake of fire. A logical person would believe this as there are many that die and don't seem to have been given equal and fair opportunity to accept or reject Jesus.
Accusing a belief of being evil is not the same as stating that it is merely an incorrect belief.
Thanks I can try
Only God can rebuke the spirit of lies Satan the accuser of the brethren .
No queen of heaven.
We can offer a verse giving us each others understanding called a heresy or private interptation .Which is ones own personal commentary as a dying tradition of mankind. Every man has a opinion (heresy) not all heresies are damnable .
In that way we can begin knowing we are offering our own heresies. and we must study There can be differences as oral traditons as long as they do not do despite the fulness of grace the complete cost of salvation.
Doing despite to the full grace introduces Limbo Purgatory doctrine. wonder, wonder, wonder as if true prophecy An illusion after the King of lying signs to wonder, wonder, wonder after
The Lord provided the second change by the fullness of His eternal grace
2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.;(personal commentary ) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 11:19For there must be also heresies among you,that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Catholicism a dark place in need of the gospel (fullness of grace) .The Glory of God as it is written .(sola scriptura)
No need to wonder, wonder ,wonder . . simply believe the living words. while we have the light of it. .
John 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
KingJ
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Again, not sure what your point is. I would think all can rebuke satan in the name of Jesus.
With regards to ''queen of heaven'' please see post # 2 here So tired of all the ignorant bashing of Catholics.
I don't agree. Purgatory is not a belief that in anyway shape or form is to bypass the need for Jesus and His blood for salvation.
Think of it as another place like earth, providing many with ''extra time''.
The reason, I do not believe in Purgatory is because I believe ''extra time'' is what the millennium is for. If you don't think we need ''extra time'' explain to me what happens to all the children in heaven.
Not sure what your point is.
What Catholic teaching do you disagree with? I asked you to try and be clear with what exactly you disagree on.
If you don't mind type your post in a logical and simple manner.
1. Grievance 2 rational explanation of the grievance, 3. Scripture for support.
Currently I see colours, meaningless words and poor scriptures thrown in, not knowing what they are supposed to be doing.
backNforth
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From the OP:
It is the denial of the scripture's absolute authority, and not its difficulty of interpretation, that has resulted in the various divisions of Christ's congregation. The Gospel is simple, it’s just that men make it complicated.
Once an absolute standard has been abandoned, there is no logic for determining right from wrong other than human logic. Whenever a congregation abandons the absolute standard of Scripture, the outcome of all religious and moral decisions is left in the hands of men. And whether these decisions are rendered by clergy, scholars, theologians, courts, synods, membership votes, or forum posters, if the decisions do not come from Scripture, then they must come from people of society, and sooner or later those decisions will inevitably be influenced by society.
It is not reasonable to maintain that God continues to speak "through the Church" or through prophets or angels or in any way other than His Holy Scriptures. Why not? Consider what the scripture itself says in this matter:
Galatians 1:8–9 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
Now if the apostles wrote down what they taught, and these writings were collected and preserved in what we now call the scripture, and then if someone else (even an angel) adds something to what the apostles wrote, aren't they teaching something "other than" what the apostles taught? You see, anyone can claim to speak for God. Anyone can say that God speaks through the Church, or through the priests or through a board of elders or even through a preacher or individual members of a congregation. But in reality, one person's claims are as good as another’s, and one congregation's opinions are as good as another's. If, however, the scripture is God's unerring word, then the one who teaches from it does not teach his opinions, but teaches the truth of God. The entire context of Galatians 1:1-16 shows how denominations are of men, and are a different gospel, and how Paul stayed away from such.
Religious denominations actually go contrary to scripture, because they divide Christ (1 Corinthians 1:10-17; 3:3). A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand (Matthew 12:25, Mark 3:24-25, Luke 11:17). In scripture, God's people are called the Christ's assembly (note: the Greek word ekklesia is translated as 'church' in most bibles; it actually refers to a group of people, and not to a physical building. Therefore, the literal translation is either 'assembly' or 'congregation'). For example, "the assembly of God" (Acts 20:28, 1 Corinthians 1:2; 10:32; 11:22; 15:9, 2 Corinthians 1:1, Galatians 1:13, 1 Timothy 3:5), or "the assembles of God" (1 Cor.11:16; 1 Thess.2:14; 2 Thess.1:4), or "the assembles of Christ" (Romans 16:16). To call the assembly (church) of God by a different name, is to replace the name of God's assembly (church) with a man-made name. God considers "naming the name of Christ" to be iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19). All denominations create a man-made name to place on their man-made Church. Where is their authority for doing this?
1 Corinthians 1:10-13, "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you ; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you . Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"
The above verse clearly condemns denominations. The reason for denominations is because those in the assembly (church) did not "speak the same thing", and that caused "divisions among them", and were no longer "joined together." Therefore, they formed different ‘Churches’ because of all the ‘contentions among them’. Just like how, in the above verses, those in the first century divided themselves and said they were of the assembly of "Chloe, Paul, Apollos, Cephas, etc.", denominations today divide themselves and say they are of the Church of the "Baptists, Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, Evangelical, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Open Brethren, Seventh day Adventists, Mormons, Orthodox, Quakers, Methodist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Calvinism, Arminianism, etc." But, as Paul asks above, "Is Christ divided?" If not, then how can these divided Churches be of Christ?
Another example of an attempt to ‘divide’ God into separate ‘Churches’ is at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-13, Mark 9:2-13, Luke 9:28-36). After Peter saw Moses, Elijah, and Jesus, he wanted to build a tabernacle (Church) for each one of them. But the Father himself descended in a cloud and said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him." In other words, we are to submit to Jesus only, and preach what he says. This attitude is reflected in the last recorded words of the mother of Jesus, Mary, when she said, "Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it" (John 2:5). We are not to build temples after other men, or upon other men’s teachings, but we are to do what Jesus told us to do.
Psalms 133:1, "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!"
1 John 3:14, "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death."
It is not possible to "dwell together in unity," or to "love the brethren" when denominations are too busy fighting with each other and disagreeing with each other.
Amos 3:3, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
Denominationalism: "The system and ideology founded on the division of the religious population into numerous ecclesiastical bodies, each stressing particular values or traditions and each competing with the other in the same community under substantial conditions of freedom. Thus denominationalism has usually been associated with religious pluralism, voluntaryism, mutual respect and recognition, and neutrality on the part of the state." Westminster Dictionary of Church History (1971), pages 262-263.
As you can see, the very definition of ‘denominationalism’ goes against the very heart of scripture. If you take the five words in bold above, for example, and compare these words with what scripture says about them, it is all negative: Division (1 Corinthians 1:10-17; 3:3). Traditions (Matthew 15:3,6, Mark 7:8,9,13. Colossians 2:8). Competing (2 Corinthians 10:12). Religious pluralism (Galatians 1:8,9). Respect (James 2:9, Leviticus 19:15, Deuteronomy 10:17, 2 Chronicles 19:7).
"The Bible in no way envisages the organization of the church into denominations. It instead assumes the opposite, that all Christians, except those being disciplined, will be in full fellowship with all others. Any tendencies to the contrary were roundly denounced (1 Cor.1:10-13). Paul could write a letter to the Christians meeting in various places in Rome or Galatia with every assurance that all would receive its message. Today, for any city or country, he would have to place the letter as an advertisement in the secular media and hope." Elwell’s Evangelistic Dictionary of Theology, (1984), page 310.
"Articles, Creeds, and Confessions of Faith alike fail to give us this full knowledge of God which is so essential to our faith and walk. They are only man’s impressions, inferences, and conclusions drawn from Scripture; and have themselves to be judged by Scripture. Whatever of truth there may be in them, or however useful, they can never take the place of the Word of God. Only in the "person" of the Living Word, and in the pages of the written Word, can we get to know God." E.W. Bullinger, The Knowledge of God, (1920), page 3.
"We do not use any non-scriptural words or expressions. These are the things which divide the members of the One Body, instead of uniting them. These introduce the seeds of strife and contention. These have been the causes of controversies and martyrdom’s". E.W.Bullinger, The Knowledge of God, (1920), page 3.
On the 26th of May, 1786, James Madison, who subsequently became president of the United States, said in a sermon he delivered before the Protestant Episcopal Church in the State of Virginia, "I earnestly recommend to our Christians to reject every system as the fallible production of human contrivance, which shall dictate the articles of faith; and adopt the Gospel alone as their guide. Those Christian societies will ever be found to have formed their union upon principles, the wisest and the best, which makes the scriptures alone, and not human articles, a confession of belief, the sole rule of faith and conduct." W.D. Frazie "Reminiscences and Sermons"(1896. page 63).
James Madison also said, "We have staked the whole future of the American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future...upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God."
In the New Testament, the English word "heresy" is from an untranslated Greek word (word #139). It's used nine times; four times it is left untranslated, but the other five times it is translated. This word is translated as "sect" (i.e., denomination) in Acts 5:17; 15:5; 24:5; 26:5 and 28:22. However, it is left untranslated in Acts 24:14, 1 Corinthians 11:19, Galatians 5:20 and 2 Peter 2:1. Let’s see what some of these verses would say if it was translated.
1 Corinthians 11:18-19, "For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies [sects, denominations] among you..."
It shows that denominations cause divisions! What else does scripture say about sects?
Galatians 5:19-21, "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies (sects, denominations), Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
Denominations are defined as a work of the flesh! We are told that they who partake of these things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Why not? Because denominations cause divisions, and Christ is not divided. Therefore, denominations are not of Christ!
2 Peter 2:1, "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies (sects, denominations), even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
This passage says false prophets and false teachers will bring in denominations, and they will deny the Lord. Denominations do deny the Lord by dividing the Lord.
When you start getting into re-definitions and re-statements of the Truth, you’re no longer in the Truth, you’re an image of the Truth. A sect or denomination is not the real thing, it is not the Truth; it is only an interpretation of the Truth, it is only a perception of the Truth. The works of men (creeds, confessions, or articles of faith) quicken no one and save no souls.
John 6:63, "It is the spirit [*not creeds, confessions, or articles of faith] that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
Hosea 8:6, "…the workman made it [*creeds, confessions, or articles of faith]; therefore it is not God:"
Isaiah 17:7-8, "At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel. And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made [*creeds, confessions, or articles of faith]..."
Also, when people say they are a "New Testament Church", they separate themselves, because they’re saying they popped up at some point 2,000 years ago, whereas God's "church" is from the beginning (Gen.1:1, Psalms 119:160, Pro.8:23, Isa.40:21; 41:4,26; 46:10; 48:5, Jer.17:12, Mark 10:6, Acts 15:18, Col.1:18, 1 John 2:7; 3:11, 2 John 1:5,6, Rev.21:6; 22:13). The "New Covenant Church," for example, is an imperfect church like all other denominations.
Answer: NEITHER.
It is the denial of the scripture's absolute authority, and not its difficulty of interpretation, that has resulted in the various divisions of Christ's congregation. The Gospel is simple, it’s just that men make it complicated.
Once an absolute standard has been abandoned, there is no logic for determining right from wrong other than human logic. Whenever a congregation abandons the absolute standard of Scripture, the outcome of all religious and moral decisions is left in the hands of men. And whether these decisions are rendered by clergy, scholars, theologians, courts, synods, membership votes, or forum posters, if the decisions do not come from Scripture, then they must come from people of society, and sooner or later those decisions will inevitably be influenced by society.
It is not reasonable to maintain that God continues to speak "through the Church" or through prophets or angels or in any way other than His Holy Scriptures. Why not? Consider what the scripture itself says in this matter:
Galatians 1:8–9 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
Now if the apostles wrote down what they taught, and these writings were collected and preserved in what we now call the scripture, and then if someone else (even an angel) adds something to what the apostles wrote, aren't they teaching something "other than" what the apostles taught? You see, anyone can claim to speak for God. Anyone can say that God speaks through the Church, or through the priests or through a board of elders or even through a preacher or individual members of a congregation. But in reality, one person's claims are as good as another’s, and one congregation's opinions are as good as another's. If, however, the scripture is God's unerring word, then the one who teaches from it does not teach his opinions, but teaches the truth of God. The entire context of Galatians 1:1-16 shows how denominations are of men, and are a different gospel, and how Paul stayed away from such.
Religious denominations actually go contrary to scripture, because they divide Christ (1 Corinthians 1:10-17; 3:3). A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand (Matthew 12:25, Mark 3:24-25, Luke 11:17). In scripture, God's people are called the Christ's assembly (note: the Greek word ekklesia is translated as 'church' in most bibles; it actually refers to a group of people, and not to a physical building. Therefore, the literal translation is either 'assembly' or 'congregation'). For example, "the assembly of God" (Acts 20:28, 1 Corinthians 1:2; 10:32; 11:22; 15:9, 2 Corinthians 1:1, Galatians 1:13, 1 Timothy 3:5), or "the assembles of God" (1 Cor.11:16; 1 Thess.2:14; 2 Thess.1:4), or "the assembles of Christ" (Romans 16:16). To call the assembly (church) of God by a different name, is to replace the name of God's assembly (church) with a man-made name. God considers "naming the name of Christ" to be iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19). All denominations create a man-made name to place on their man-made Church. Where is their authority for doing this?
1 Corinthians 1:10-13, "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you ; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you . Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"
The above verse clearly condemns denominations. The reason for denominations is because those in the assembly (church) did not "speak the same thing", and that caused "divisions among them", and were no longer "joined together." Therefore, they formed different ‘Churches’ because of all the ‘contentions among them’. Just like how, in the above verses, those in the first century divided themselves and said they were of the assembly of "Chloe, Paul, Apollos, Cephas, etc.", denominations today divide themselves and say they are of the Church of the "Baptists, Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, Evangelical, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Open Brethren, Seventh day Adventists, Mormons, Orthodox, Quakers, Methodist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Calvinism, Arminianism, etc." But, as Paul asks above, "Is Christ divided?" If not, then how can these divided Churches be of Christ?
Another example of an attempt to ‘divide’ God into separate ‘Churches’ is at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-13, Mark 9:2-13, Luke 9:28-36). After Peter saw Moses, Elijah, and Jesus, he wanted to build a tabernacle (Church) for each one of them. But the Father himself descended in a cloud and said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him." In other words, we are to submit to Jesus only, and preach what he says. This attitude is reflected in the last recorded words of the mother of Jesus, Mary, when she said, "Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it" (John 2:5). We are not to build temples after other men, or upon other men’s teachings, but we are to do what Jesus told us to do.
Psalms 133:1, "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!"
1 John 3:14, "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death."
It is not possible to "dwell together in unity," or to "love the brethren" when denominations are too busy fighting with each other and disagreeing with each other.
Amos 3:3, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
Denominationalism: "The system and ideology founded on the division of the religious population into numerous ecclesiastical bodies, each stressing particular values or traditions and each competing with the other in the same community under substantial conditions of freedom. Thus denominationalism has usually been associated with religious pluralism, voluntaryism, mutual respect and recognition, and neutrality on the part of the state." Westminster Dictionary of Church History (1971), pages 262-263.
As you can see, the very definition of ‘denominationalism’ goes against the very heart of scripture. If you take the five words in bold above, for example, and compare these words with what scripture says about them, it is all negative: Division (1 Corinthians 1:10-17; 3:3). Traditions (Matthew 15:3,6, Mark 7:8,9,13. Colossians 2:8). Competing (2 Corinthians 10:12). Religious pluralism (Galatians 1:8,9). Respect (James 2:9, Leviticus 19:15, Deuteronomy 10:17, 2 Chronicles 19:7).
"The Bible in no way envisages the organization of the church into denominations. It instead assumes the opposite, that all Christians, except those being disciplined, will be in full fellowship with all others. Any tendencies to the contrary were roundly denounced (1 Cor.1:10-13). Paul could write a letter to the Christians meeting in various places in Rome or Galatia with every assurance that all would receive its message. Today, for any city or country, he would have to place the letter as an advertisement in the secular media and hope." Elwell’s Evangelistic Dictionary of Theology, (1984), page 310.
"Articles, Creeds, and Confessions of Faith alike fail to give us this full knowledge of God which is so essential to our faith and walk. They are only man’s impressions, inferences, and conclusions drawn from Scripture; and have themselves to be judged by Scripture. Whatever of truth there may be in them, or however useful, they can never take the place of the Word of God. Only in the "person" of the Living Word, and in the pages of the written Word, can we get to know God." E.W. Bullinger, The Knowledge of God, (1920), page 3.
"We do not use any non-scriptural words or expressions. These are the things which divide the members of the One Body, instead of uniting them. These introduce the seeds of strife and contention. These have been the causes of controversies and martyrdom’s". E.W.Bullinger, The Knowledge of God, (1920), page 3.
On the 26th of May, 1786, James Madison, who subsequently became president of the United States, said in a sermon he delivered before the Protestant Episcopal Church in the State of Virginia, "I earnestly recommend to our Christians to reject every system as the fallible production of human contrivance, which shall dictate the articles of faith; and adopt the Gospel alone as their guide. Those Christian societies will ever be found to have formed their union upon principles, the wisest and the best, which makes the scriptures alone, and not human articles, a confession of belief, the sole rule of faith and conduct." W.D. Frazie "Reminiscences and Sermons"(1896. page 63).
James Madison also said, "We have staked the whole future of the American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future...upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God."
In the New Testament, the English word "heresy" is from an untranslated Greek word (word #139). It's used nine times; four times it is left untranslated, but the other five times it is translated. This word is translated as "sect" (i.e., denomination) in Acts 5:17; 15:5; 24:5; 26:5 and 28:22. However, it is left untranslated in Acts 24:14, 1 Corinthians 11:19, Galatians 5:20 and 2 Peter 2:1. Let’s see what some of these verses would say if it was translated.
1 Corinthians 11:18-19, "For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies [sects, denominations] among you..."
It shows that denominations cause divisions! What else does scripture say about sects?
Galatians 5:19-21, "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies (sects, denominations), Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
Denominations are defined as a work of the flesh! We are told that they who partake of these things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Why not? Because denominations cause divisions, and Christ is not divided. Therefore, denominations are not of Christ!
2 Peter 2:1, "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies (sects, denominations), even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
This passage says false prophets and false teachers will bring in denominations, and they will deny the Lord. Denominations do deny the Lord by dividing the Lord.
When you start getting into re-definitions and re-statements of the Truth, you’re no longer in the Truth, you’re an image of the Truth. A sect or denomination is not the real thing, it is not the Truth; it is only an interpretation of the Truth, it is only a perception of the Truth. The works of men (creeds, confessions, or articles of faith) quicken no one and save no souls.
John 6:63, "It is the spirit [*not creeds, confessions, or articles of faith] that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
Hosea 8:6, "…the workman made it [*creeds, confessions, or articles of faith]; therefore it is not God:"
Isaiah 17:7-8, "At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel. And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made [*creeds, confessions, or articles of faith]..."
Also, when people say they are a "New Testament Church", they separate themselves, because they’re saying they popped up at some point 2,000 years ago, whereas God's "church" is from the beginning (Gen.1:1, Psalms 119:160, Pro.8:23, Isa.40:21; 41:4,26; 46:10; 48:5, Jer.17:12, Mark 10:6, Acts 15:18, Col.1:18, 1 John 2:7; 3:11, 2 John 1:5,6, Rev.21:6; 22:13). The "New Covenant Church," for example, is an imperfect church like all other denominations.
MedicBravo
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Why did you stop?
Disagreement doesn't equal hate or ignorance (not knowing).
I'm not Catholic for countless reasons but I'm not the topic.
If one is saved and truly loves God he/she will obey His commandments not cherry pick o rmake new ones.
Rhema
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Let's try it this way:
Could you possibly then explain to me what a Catholic believes about how one is (gets) saved?
Meaning... if we were in conversation and the topic of salvation came up, how would you explain to me the Catholic belief about how salvation is obtained?
I'm not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure I understand the Catholic belief about salvation. Perhaps, though, I'm wrong. So if you could post something substantive that describes the Catholic beliefs about salvation it might help the conversation. And something like "the same way all Christians get saved," or "the way Protestants get saved" wouldn't be helpful. So think of me as a Hindu or Buddhist and then tell me how to get saved from the Catholic perspective as you understand it.
Kindly,
Rhema
Rhema
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I tend to value my time, and if some (sorry) "rando" on YouTube completely misses key points of a topic, I'm out.
You wrote, "if one is saved..." The question, though, is how one gets saved. The Protestant and Catholic disagree (and sometimes violently disagree) on this topic.
Well then to answer the topic, neither is correct.
Kindly,
Rhema
MedicBravo
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There are good reasons for the Split and given many things they believe in and do I'm glad I'm not Catholic. That is from God and the Bible not my interpretation.
If you stop then you don't get another full POV so that is your subjective, limited POV.
