Catholics Vs Protestants: Who is Right? 11-2-24

[Bill]

Hi Thanks

The parable called two sons is the third parable of four building on the conclusion .No man can serve two good teaching masters as one Lord that works in the believers .


The title of the parable is not inspired . Its why I used the title of the parable the "waiting father", who knew his Son would return seeing him a far off the vison of faith a Picture of God running. Some call it the parable of two sons which adds to the meaning but not the foundation of context

Running, leaping, walking moving things is used to represent the gospel through out the word .

Acts ;Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.;And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.

Running praising

2 Chronicles 23:12 Now when Athaliah heard the noise of the people running and praising the king, she came to the people into the house of the Lord:

2 Samuel 18:25-27And the watchman cried, and told the king. And the king said, If he be alone, there is tidings in his mouth. And he came apace, and drew near.And the watchman saw another man running: and the watchman called unto the porter, and said, Behold another man running alone. And the king said, He also bringeth tidings.And the watchman said, Me thinketh the running of the foremost is like the running of Ahimaaz the son of Zadok. And the king said, He is a good man, and cometh with good tidings. (gospel)

It would seem running represents the drawing power of the gospel,. Christ the father running toward his children of faith

Luke 15:19-21 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him; And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.;


No man can serve two good teaching masters as one Lord .Either the riches of this world as the wisdom of this world called Mammon or the riches of all things written in the law and prophets or law and its testimony (sola scriptura . Three times the holy Spirit informs us of it as it is written The source of C hrsits faith that works in the beiver is the final authroity in matter of faith our unseen head Christ . In that way we are not what we will be when receive the new incorruptible body .

I would say sola scriptura the foundation of the eternal unseen things of God ithe goal of every parable it protects the integrity of sola scriptura .beginning in Genesis . Mankind fell because of false prophecy (neither shall you touch) which adds to sola scriptura subtracting the intended understanding of faith .

The reforming authroity in any generation or family. Whenever two or three gather under the hearing of faith or power to believe .He is there working with each one .

Luke 16 13:-31No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.(riches of the world) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets (sola scriptura) were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it;And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law (sola scriptural) to fail. Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.nd it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets;(sola scriptura) let them hear them.And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,(sola scriptura)neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Good day to you, Gods blessings to you.

I mean this in all sincerity, but reading this post, you are all over the place.

First, i am trying to grasp what all this has to do with the original content of Catholics versus Protestants.

You start talking about people following two gods and then it switches to two good teachers. And that doesn't make any sense in itself because if they were good teachers then they would be Godly people. And if they're Godly people then they're both Godly teachers correct?

Good teachers come from God, Bad Teachers well who knows where they come from. Lol, no seriously you can have someone who tries to be with God, and yet be can be deceived and teach crap. Primary example would be the old Christian preacher from India, I can't think of his name but he was a great teacher for a long time until he started teaching "the Done Theory" which is a proven false teaching. And if anyone doesn't believe that, all they got to do is read the author's book. Because the author himself contradicts himself twice in the first half of the book. I know I read it.

Also your understanding of The Prodigal Son parable is incorrect and you contradicted yourself in your own words.

You stated that "the other son never entered Fellowship with the father",
But that's not what the scripture says, because if you read the passage or the father is talking to his son who stays with him. It reads "you have always been with me."

Seems to me like the other son was already in fellowship with the father.

So I'm not sure how any teacher can come up with the conclusion that the two sons are learning two separate routes from as you say good teachers.

The Prodigal Son is coming back to the father, where the other son has never left the father. And this is why I use the reference in concerning the Catholics and the Protestants. Because in both cases I would believe that the Catholics or the Protestants would say that they are the son who stays with the father.

Personally I think that if I could represent the whole of a church, that I would claim to be the other son who's gone through all hell and is now repenting and coming back to the father. Because now that son has seen his folly and has become humble before his dad.

In my personal opinion I feel that both the Protestants and the Catholics have become too prideful as a whole but not as individuals. Because there are many in both groups that I would be proud to stand with.

As for the rest of the reading, the part about leaping running and jumping has got me confused and I have no idea where you're going with that. It's not clear.

Of course I understand the scripture passages that you post but when you get into other things then you lose me again because some of that just doesn't make any sense.

"all things written in the law and prophets or law and its testimony"
This particular phrase I find disturbing from you, because of one simple thing. If all this is written in the scripture then it's already in the scripture. You can't be separating what the prophets and the scripture say as it is one.

There is a reason why scripture is referred to as the inspired word of God.
If I might say, what the prophets received is also the inspired word of God.

I hope you listen to what I'm trying to tell you on this. I would suggest that you try to get your thoughts a little more focused and then try to explain what you're trying to say again. Thank you Bill

 

[Garee]

Good teachers come from God, Bad Teachers well who knows where they come from. Lol, no seriously you can have someone who tries to be with God, and yet be can be deceived and teach crap. Primary example would be the old Christian preacher from India, I can't think of his name but he was a great teacher for a long time until he started teaching "the Done Theory" which is a proven false teaching. And if anyone doesn't believe that, all they got to do is read the author's book. Because the author himself contradicts himself twice in the first half of the book. I know I read it.

Also your understanding of The Prodigal Son parable is incorrect and you contradicted yourself in your own words.

Hi thanks.

Sorry for the misunderstandings. dropped out early. . slow learner. . back of the class, hated reading and English. To late to teach slow learning old dogs. LOL

Poor grammar mixed with things hard to explain without faith.. . . . Christ's powerful "understanding" working in us, with us

As a preacher apologist. They care for that which protects them (sola scriptura) the armor of God. It as it is written defends against the oral traditions of a legion of dying mankind called fathers.

Christ in us is the one good teaching master. . . our Holy Father not seen.

I would be interested in what you said as far as proven false. Makes a great open book study. Jesus aced it. . A +.... times a Zillion . he Gives us his study notes as it is written

Mark 10:17-1And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?;And Jesus (Dying mankind) said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

The son of man Jesus is not the one good Father as the teaching master. He would never blaspheme the Holy name of the Father eternal God

Deuteronomy 4Ye shall not add unto the word(singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,(singular) that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.

The Lord defending the integrity of every word lovingly commanding not to add new meaning or subtract from one word. The cause of the fall.

No man can serve two Holy Fathers as one teaching master.

Jesus the Son of man would never sit in the place of the one good teaching master as Lord Our Father in heaven He gave glory to the unseen Holy father when he was bowed down to in worship .

A violation of the law not to add or subtract the meaning of even one word it can change the authorship of all the commandments

I would offer the problems aways stems from the foreign word Apostle not translated into English in to give a wondering un-familiar sense changing the true gospel spiritual meaning Sent ones the ones with beautiful feet into Highly venerable ones that lord it over the true understating of the word apostles. . errand boys., UPS, Pony Express, e.t.c.

Using two apostles to remind where the power that enables us to believe in an invisible Holy Father comes from (sola scriptura)

Teaches us in the parable below not to puff up dying fathers one against the other as to "who is the greatest puffed-up sinner".

! Corithians 4:And these things, brethren, I have in a figure (parable) transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written,(sola scriptura) that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.;For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it

Ask yourself who makes you differ from others. what do you have that you have not received freely from the power of God?

We can miraculously preach. and share how we hear and therefore seek his aproval

He alone is the one good teaching master .Every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor working with Christ.

The apostles (sent ones) are as nothing.

Making them everything, a legion of patron the downfall of the law of the father oral traditions of dying mankind.

God protecting the faithful integrity, as it is written Three times in Mathew 4 again, and again as it is written made the devil flee.

Why add or subtract from it as it is written? To serve another written law as a defense...???.

CCC sacred tradition of dying mankind. Said to be divine . Can believers serve two written teaching master coming from one good teaching master?

1 Corinthians 3:;For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?or while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?;I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.;Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Nothing comes from the beautify feet of the apostles. We preach Chrsit alone teaches and brings to our memory the previous things he has taught as well as the memory of those here so we might pray for strength for each other

 

[Bill]

Hi thanks.

Sorry for the misunderstandings. dropped out early. . slow learner. . back of the class, hated reading and English. To late to teach slow learning old dogs. LOL

Poor grammar mixed with things hard to explain without faith.. . . . Christ's powerful "understanding" working in us, with us

As a preacher apologist. They care for that which protects them (sola scriptura) the armor of God. It as it is written defends against the oral traditions of a legion of dying mankind called fathers.

Christ in us is the one good teaching master. . . our Holy Father not seen.

I would be interested in what you said as far as proven false. Makes a great open book study. Jesus aced it. . A +.... times a Zillion . he Gives us his study notes as it is written

Mark 10:17-1And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?;And Jesus (Dying mankind) said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

The son of man Jesus is not the one good Father as the teaching master. He would never blaspheme the Holy name of the Father eternal God

Deuteronomy 4Ye shall not add unto the word(singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,(singular) that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.

The Lord defending the integrity of every word lovingly commanding not to add new meaning or subtract from one word. The cause of the fall.

No man can serve two Holy Fathers as one teaching master.

Jesus the Son of man would never sit in the place of the one good teaching master as Lord Our Father in heaven He gave glory to the unseen Holy father when he was bowed down to in worship .

A violation of the law not to add or subtract the meaning of even one word it can change the authorship of all the commandments

I would offer the problems aways stems from the foreign word Apostle not translated into English in to give a wondering un-familiar sense changing the true gospel spiritual meaning Sent ones the ones with beautiful feet into Highly venerable ones that lord it over the true understating of the word apostles. . errand boys., UPS, Pony Express, e.t.c.

Using two apostles to remind where the power that enables us to believe in an invisible Holy Father comes from (sola scriptura)

Teaches us in the parable below not to puff up dying fathers one against the other as to "who is the greatest puffed-up sinner".

! Corithians 4:And these things, brethren, I have in a figure (parable) transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written,(sola scriptura) that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.;For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it

Ask yourself who makes you differ from others. what do you have that you have not received freely from the power of God?

We can miraculously preach. and share how we hear and therefore seek his aproval

He alone is the one good teaching master .Every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor working with Christ.

The apostles (sent ones) are as nothing.

Making them everything, a legion of patron the downfall of the law of the father oral traditions of dying mankind.

God protecting the faithful integrity, as it is written Three times in Mathew 4 again, and again as it is written made the devil flee.

Why add or subtract from it as it is written? To serve another written law as a defense...???.

CCC sacred tradition of dying mankind. Said to be divine . Can believers serve two written teaching master coming from one good teaching master?

1 Corinthians 3:;For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?or while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?;I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.;Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Nothing comes from the beautify feet of the apostles. We preach Chrsit alone teaches and brings to our memory the previous things he has taught as well as the memory of those here so we might pray for strength for each other

That is still very hard to follow. Try making an outline then following it. That way you will have a focus. A singular thred or theme throughout your message.

There are some things that make no sense at all. The "puff up dead fathers" i guess. You see all of scripture has to work together, it is my primary beef i have with many Protestants because when many preach there is so much breakdown of the scripture that its intent is completely lost. Except for the preacher making his ( cough - nowdays, her) points. Trying to show the scripture agrees with them because single words are found in scripture.

You talk of the puff up on dead fathers. Yet Jesus did the very thing you are making issues on. Jesus quoted a number of old prophets. Heck he even met with Elijah and Moses. How much more do you want. Jesus is telling us it is ok to listen to those who passed on before us.

In the Catholic church we know the saints are in heaven. And we listen to the words of those saints

 

[bowwow]

That is still very hard to follow. Try making an outline then following it. That way you will have a focus. A singular thred or theme throughout your message.

There are some things that make no sense at all. The "puff up dead fathers" i guess. You see all of scripture has to work together, it is my primary beef i have with many Protestants because when many preach there is so much breakdown of the scripture that its intent is completely lost. Except for the preacher making his ( cough - nowdays, her) points. Trying to show the scripture agrees with them because single words are found in scripture.

You talk of the puff up on dead fathers. Yet Jesus did the very thing you are making issues on. Jesus quoted a number of old prophets. Heck he even met with Elijah and Moses. How much more do you want. Jesus is telling us it is ok to listen to those who passed on before us.

In the Catholic church we know the saints are in heaven. And we listen to the words of those saints

I'm also a Catholic at heart. There was a resurrection when Jesus rose, but I don't believe anybody like the saints or 'anybody' have gone to heaven since - until the next resurrection of the dead.

Being non- trinitarian makes things difficult for me. I'm trying to restore my faith but it's difficult.

 

[Bill]

I'm also a Catholic at heart. There was a resurrection when Jesus rose, but I don't believe anybody like the saints or 'anybody' have gone to heaven since - until the next resurrection of the dead.

Being non- trinitarian makes things difficult for me. I'm trying to restore my faith but it's difficult.

Non trinitarian = you do not believe in the Trinity?

That is sxtreemly difficult if you want to believe in scripture as well. Even the Israelites believed in the Duality of God. Two Beings that are One.

Plus in the scripture, there are too many times that the Trinity is established.

Then there is reality, in my own life, i experienced the Trinity at least 3 times

 

[Bill]

I'm also a Catholic at heart. There was a resurrection when Jesus rose, but I don't believe anybody like the saints or 'anybody' have gone to heaven since - until the next resurrection of the dead.

Being non- trinitarian makes things difficult for me. I'm trying to restore my faith but it's difficult.

There is a proplem with your theory. You state " i don't believe anybody like the saints have gone to heaven since - until the next resurrection of the dead"

The problem with this , you are associating the dead with the living. Anyone who dies with Jesus in thier heart, they are not dead, they are alive. Do you think the body you inhabit is yourself? Scripture says, it is the temple of the Holy Spirit. And Jesus tells us to love God with our heart, our mind, our spirit. and our strength. Jesus never says to worship God with our body.

We are created in the likeness of God. God is a Trinity and so are we, a trinity. Mind, spirit and heart

 

[Christ4Ever]

I understand the guidance of the Holy Spirit, having been blessed with such on possibly too many occasions (or not enough), but what to make of it when two people both claiming to be under God's guidance arrive at separate and contradicting conclusions?

You stop walking with each other, if you can't agree to disagree.

No, Nick. That's the prevailing mindset in America that has caused such divisive vitriol from politics even into religion and families. Rather, one is to pray for that person, no? One is to do good for that person. Neither can be done if one "stops walking." (Have you stopped walking with your daughter?)

To keep the train of thought.

Are you having a problem with "can't agree to disagree"?

The problem with this is, that you both might know His voice, but you may not have the same understanding.

So God is unable to ensure that the person to whom he speaks has understanding of what He is saying? ( ) No. Rather, I find that God stands mute if a person might misunderstand, and the ability for one to understand IS guided by his education.

I agree if you mean by "education" (focused) you would also include "learning" (broad).

You stop walking with each other, if you can't agree to disagree. The problem with this is, that you both might know His voice, but you may not have the same understanding. Eventually you'll both find out the truth, and usually it will be what neither of you expected it was, but maybe not for you because of course both can't be wrong. lol

One hopes you will. But humans are not rational, making decisions by emotions instead. How often have you needed to keep your emotions in check because they would override that which Jesus teaches you to do? Even here in this quote, you needed to end with an emotional sarcasm, "because of course...". Why do you feel the need to belittle me like that? (There's a reason.) When I let God guide me into truth, after having prepared (..education..) to stand and seek, I don't bring expectations with me. They get in the way. But when the Rhema of the Pneuma speaks, it is never wrong.

One must have both rational and emotional thought in balance. If not, then you'll probably, as I implied by the statement of "of course both can't be wrong. lol" that indeed you both can be wrong. (No lol this time, since you did not see my humor in it, and took it as a personal slight.) We were created as God intended, emotional & rational beings. During His earthly ministry, our Lord exemplified both qualities abundantly. Though fully human like us, He was perfect and without failings in both of these areas that we fall short in.

I can readily assure you that if something to the extent of Paul's road to Damascus experience were to happen to you (as has to me on more than one occasion) you would not forget the details. Do you forget any of the details when you accepted Christ?

How utterly absurd. The accounts in Acts mention significant facts not paltry "details."

Question: Because of these differences of testimony of Paul, does it mean that his testimony is false?

(BTW, when I walked forward at the age of eight, the carpet was red. )

Care to pick one?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S.

And therein lies the rub. There are four separate Gospel messages found in the New Testament texts. The one preached by Jesus, and ratified by Peter, but altered by James the brother, and a fourth that is radically different, according to the visions of Paul.

I have a long time friend who likes to share the Gospel, but when I ask him which one, he's then not too sure.

Does your friend still share the Gospel with others and if so which one or is he still unsure of which one would be right to use? Or have you left him to his own devices now that you have shared your insight with him?

I await your response.

 

[bowwow]

We are created in the likeness of God. God is a Trinity and so are we, a trinity. Mind, spirit and heart

Trinitarian says, "Jesus is equal in power to God the Father."

Jesus says, the God the Father is greater.
Jesus says, "He can do nothing on his own.

Trinitarian says, "Jesus is equal to God the Father in knowledge."
Jesus said, "Only the Father know the day and hour of Jesus' return.

Trinitarian says, "Jesus is fully God and fully man."

Paul says, Jesus was fully human in every way!

"For this reason he had to be made like them,[fn] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people."

Like his brethren.
Trinitarian Christians destroy Christianity. Thousands were tortured and murdered over this demonic doctrine. Close to 50% of Christians now believe Jesus is NOT God. My heart is destroyed over this diabolical man-made demon devised Trinity doctrine where one Christian condemns the other. The ironic thing is this doctrine comes from a Church many Evangelical Protestants label as, "The ***** of Babylon!"

If Jesus was God that makes him a fraud and the cross a hoax!

We know that God cannot be tempted and cannot sin. IF Jesus WAS God, that means he's a fraud because he could not have been tempted to sin anyway making him a complete fraud and the cross a complete hoax with ZERO atonement for sin.

 

[Bill]

Trinitarian says, "Jesus is equal in power to God the Father."

Jesus says, the God the Father is greater.
Jesus says, "He can do nothing on his own.

Trinitarian says, "Jesus is equal to God the Father in knowledge."
Jesus said, "Only the Father know the day and hour of Jesus' return.

Trinitarian says, "Jesus is fully God and fully man."

Paul says, Jesus was fully human in every way!

"For this reason he had to be made like them,[fn] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people."

Like his brethren.
Trinitarian Christians destroy Christianity. Thousands were tortured and murdered over this demonic doctrine. Close to 50% of Christians now believe Jesus is NOT God. My heart is destroyed over this diabolical man-made demon devised Trinity doctrine where one Christian condemns the other. The ironic thing is this doctrine comes from a Church many Evangelical Protestants label as, "The ***** of Babylon!"

If Jesus was God that makes him a fraud and the cross a hoax!

We know that God cannot be tempted and cannot sin. IF Jesus WAS God, that means he's a fraud because he could not have been tempted to sin anyway making him a complete fraud and the cross a complete hoax with ZERO atonement for sin.

But that is all part of the mystery of God. If it were easy then we would know everything Right?

 

[bowwow]

But that is all part of the mystery of God. If it were easy then we would know everything Right?

You think it's a mystery that Jesus said the Father is greater?

 

[bowwow]

Call no man one earth Holy Father, Holy See .

What does "call no man father" mean - and WHO was it directed to? Does that mean I can't call my father - father? Does it mean I can't call my pastor 'pastor?' Look at who Jesus is talking about - the Scribes and Pharisees. Look at what Jesus says about them and put this all-in context.

Jesus said to Jewish believers -

"All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

So he's telling them that they should respect the scribes and the Pharisees - not because of their conduct, but because they "sit in Moses’ seat". In other words, they should be respected because they hold an office of authority, ordained by God and goes on to say the Pharisees are bad examples.

"But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments - And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

So what's the message Jesus is getting at? The Scribes and Pharisees acted religious and loved to be seen sitting at the most honored seats in Jewish banquets, festivals, and in the synagogue. They loved titles of honor like "Rabbi and father." They loved it when people admired their 'spirituality'.

We have to put all of this in the context of what Jesus says between verses 8 - 12.

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Is Jesus contradicting himself from what he said in Verse 3?

All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Better translated - "Whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do."

So what is Jesus' message? Jesus is warning Jewish believers NOT to put the honor of men - (specifically the Pharisees), He is saying NOT to give excessive spiritual honor to people in authority because human honor is NOT above the honor that belongs to the Father - God.

Jesus was called Rabbi, Paul called himself father.

 

[Bill]

You think it's a mystery that Jesus said the Father is greater?

Yes.

And even you have proven it. As you do not understand either.

Jesus said, i and the Father are One.

Gospel of John chapter 1 states. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God.

Later in that same chapter it reveals that the Word became flesh and dwelt Among Us.

We know that Jesus is the Word.

Then Jesus says that the Father is greater than Him.

So you can see there is a mystery, something that we may never understand

 

[bowwow]

Yes.

And even you have proven it. As you do not understand either.

Jesus said, i and the Father are One.

Gospel of John chapter 1 states. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God.

Later in that same chapter it reveals that the Word became flesh and dwelt Among Us.

We know that Jesus is the Word.

Then Jesus says that the Father is greater than Him.

So you can see there is a mystery, something that we may never understand

That doesn't make any sense. Stop accusing others of not understanding. Spiritual arrogance flourishes on this forum.

 

[Bill]

That doesn't make any sense. Stop accusing others of not understanding. Spiritual arrogance flourishes on this forum.

I rest my case. There is no point to go forward, all i wrote is clearly scripture. And the interpratation is clear as well.

 

[bowwow]

I rest my case. There is no point to go forward, all i wrote is clearly scripture. And the interpratation is clear as well.

I can understand why you'd want to shut this one down.

 

[Rhema]

Care to pick one?

Garnet, but I have started to develop cataracts, and my monitor is not adjusted for professional photography.


(Now where was I? Oh yeah, being called away...)
Rhema

 

[Christ4Ever]

Garnet, but I have started to develop cataracts, and my monitor is not adjusted for professional photography.


(Now where was I? Oh yeah, being called away...)
Rhema

So, like me it doesn't add or take away from the experience.
Hopefully, all is well with you and yours. (Being called away.)

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[bowwow]

I think we too often associate 'Protestants' with Evangelicals. Most of the 'old' Protestant Denominations are not doing well. And most of them have moderated and become more liberal.

I got this list online. The Southern Baptist are the more Evangelical of the bunch.

1. Southern Baptist Convention: 16.2 million members
2. The United Methodist Church: 7.8 million members
3. The Church of God in Christ: 5.5 million members
4. National Baptist Convention: 5.0 million members
5. Evangelical Lutheran Church, U.S.A.: 4.5 million members
6. National Baptist Convention of America: 3.5 million members
7. Assemblies of God: 2.9 million members
8. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.): 2.8 million members
9. African Methodist Episcopal Church: 2.5 million members
10. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America: 2.5 million members
11. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS): 2.3 million members
12. The Episcopal Church: 2.0 million members
13. Churches of Christ: 1.6 million members
14. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World: 1.5 million members
15. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church: 1.4 million members

 

[MedicBravo]

The fact that there are 15 is a problem.

 

[Garee]

Yes.

And even you have proven it. As you do not understand either.

Jesus said, i and the Father are One.

Gospel of John chapter 1 states. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God.

Later in that same chapter it reveals that the Word became flesh and dwelt Among Us.

We know that Jesus is the Word.

Then Jesus says that the Father is greater than Him.

So you can see there is a mystery, something that we may never understand

One in purpose .The Father sends the Son of man Jesus. Jesus moved accordioning to the commandment