Rom 8:1..."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
What flaws does a man who is "in Christ Jesus", and, "not walking after the flesh", have?
Child like faith?
- Thread starter Dave M
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What flaws does a man who is "in Christ Jesus", and, "not walking after the flesh", have?
Greetings (all),
what does it mean to be sifted, like wheat, and what is it's purpose, and for whom is it an expectancy?
What also will the Lord sift at all?
Can this be likened to a refiners fire?
and, for both, could it be that it is children who are the subject of such refining or sifting?
and, on the more vital note, if it be you who is to be in this (either sifting, refining or both), can you wholeheartedly welcome it?
Bless you ....><>
what does it mean to be sifted, like wheat, and what is it's purpose, and for whom is it an expectancy?
What also will the Lord sift at all?
Can this be likened to a refiners fire?
and, for both, could it be that it is children who are the subject of such refining or sifting?
and, on the more vital note, if it be you who is to be in this (either sifting, refining or both), can you wholeheartedly welcome it?
Bless you ....><>
Greetings,
after reading this: What is Faith? and then re-reading your post here Chris, was good (for me, anyway)
Bless you ....><>
after reading this: What is Faith? and then re-reading your post here Chris, was good (for me, anyway)
Bless you ....><>
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This is really repulsive in truth....you attach, "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.", as if it were a part of Romans 8:1. which it is not. We all desire to walk not after the flesh but after the spirit.....this is one of the first fruits of being "Born Again". Paul wrote Romans 8:1 after his dissertation in Romans 7 about not being quite perfect yet......signifying that God, though calls us to be perfect, does not make it a requirement for salvation. You changing Bible verses to support your theology is a dangerous thing! You must use all Bible verses for "stand alone" meaning and not string them together to support your own views! Romans 8:1-2 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
please excuse me interrupting but you will find that it is in some translations, so it should not be too repulsive.
for example from the World English Bible:
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who don't walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Websters Bible Translation
Let us build one another up.
Bless you ....><>
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Excuse me for replying back but, Romans 8:1 was written by Paul, on that there should be no contest, as well, that it is a result of Romans 7 , also written by Paul. It is the over-all Gospel that we should be applying. We all want to walk in the spirit...I said that...why do you deny it? Walking in the Spirit and not in the Flesh is a first fruit of being "Born Again"...why not mention that I said that? There is nothing in the scriptures that we must do this perfectly! Which Mr. Peace concurs! ...I do not ! It is wrong to use scripture to support one's agenda. I think it is blasphemous and I will continue to say so. I have no agenda. We are all called to perfection, none of us are, thank God there is no condemnation for our imperfection. Mr. Peace purports that there is no condemnation for him because he is perfect. I don't see how you build that up!?
@Born Again 2004
Greetings
I am not sure that such contempt for a fellow member is warranted, especially in response to my post which rightly points out that some versions (including the much read King James Version) DO have those words included.
Please consider your words more carefully in future and please pray before posting.... in peace.
We are saved by grace, not to become indignant and to burn with self-righteous fury against any person.
Perhaps it was merely childish of you to react in such a manner? Does such childish behavior qualify us according to the topic here, being that of child like faith?
I bought a toy for some children once. It is/was a small flying thing. I think it is a sort of drone type apparatus. It is extremely hard to maneuver and fly, and even adjusting the flight settings to a place where it hovers continuously in one spot is near impossible... to me.
It got shelved. Rendered as 'too hard' and with it also, not of much use. Almost even considered a waste of money... not worth the price paid.
On reflection, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It is my fumble fingers, my lack of gentle control and precise handling of the instrument panel that is the problem. Perhaps if i was a veteran gamer or something or maybe a surgeon or other nimble fingered technician, I might be able to make better use of it?
However, am I right to deem it unworthy and to get upset with it because i can not control my own hands enough to operate its delicate controls? Because i can not use it as it was designed to be used, should I get annoyed with it. And if another should enter and find that operating it is as easy as spreading butter on toast, how should I feel? And the gift itself? What use is it to me if i can not fly it? (or to any other who can not?)
I tried to follow the instructions and could not.
I remember that as a youngster, it was common to get snooty towards someone if they could do what others could not. They were seen as 'bad' because of the failings of the others. The were not all that welcome. We would even consider that because the other person could do something we couldn't, they automatically were thinking they were better than us. The more they explained that it was easy, the more our hatred towards them grew. Sweet childhood went out the window, replaced with ugly attitudes of self implanted and correct opinions about someone who could do something we could not.
The Apostle Paul, you mention, also went on to say,
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 1Corinthians 14:20
Post in Peace
Bless you ....><>
As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 1Peter 4:10
Greetings
I am not sure that such contempt for a fellow member is warranted, especially in response to my post which rightly points out that some versions (including the much read King James Version) DO have those words included.
Please consider your words more carefully in future and please pray before posting.... in peace.
We are saved by grace, not to become indignant and to burn with self-righteous fury against any person.
Perhaps it was merely childish of you to react in such a manner? Does such childish behavior qualify us according to the topic here, being that of child like faith?
I bought a toy for some children once. It is/was a small flying thing. I think it is a sort of drone type apparatus. It is extremely hard to maneuver and fly, and even adjusting the flight settings to a place where it hovers continuously in one spot is near impossible... to me.
It got shelved. Rendered as 'too hard' and with it also, not of much use. Almost even considered a waste of money... not worth the price paid.
On reflection, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It is my fumble fingers, my lack of gentle control and precise handling of the instrument panel that is the problem. Perhaps if i was a veteran gamer or something or maybe a surgeon or other nimble fingered technician, I might be able to make better use of it?
However, am I right to deem it unworthy and to get upset with it because i can not control my own hands enough to operate its delicate controls? Because i can not use it as it was designed to be used, should I get annoyed with it. And if another should enter and find that operating it is as easy as spreading butter on toast, how should I feel? And the gift itself? What use is it to me if i can not fly it? (or to any other who can not?)
I tried to follow the instructions and could not.
I remember that as a youngster, it was common to get snooty towards someone if they could do what others could not. They were seen as 'bad' because of the failings of the others. The were not all that welcome. We would even consider that because the other person could do something we couldn't, they automatically were thinking they were better than us. The more they explained that it was easy, the more our hatred towards them grew. Sweet childhood went out the window, replaced with ugly attitudes of self implanted and correct opinions about someone who could do something we could not.
The Apostle Paul, you mention, also went on to say,
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 1Corinthians 14:20
Post in Peace
Bless you ....><>
As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 1Peter 4:10
Born Again 2004
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Of course
Born Again 2004
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Greetings,
yes, it is.
May i tell you a true story?
I knew a fellow who used to drink.... alcohol. He was a drunkard by all interpretation. He drank like no other man I have ever known. He was a glutton of a drunk and drank far beyond what was humanly and medically possible.
He used to be very proud and determined to show everyone that he could out drink any other. He had a real problem, a very real problem not only with alcohol but also with pride and stupidity (foolishness). Regarding his addiction, this man could not go one half hour without consuming alcohol, except for the few hours he 'slept'. Upon awakening, if a drink (a big drink) was not consumed within that half hour, his trembling hands could hardly hold the glass.
He justified his ways before anyone and flaunted his ability to prove his self made justification program.
In his eyes, all others were inferior and he knew it. No man could or would even dare to drink as he did. many tried but fell quickly under the intoxicating effects of alcohol.
One day he realized he was messing up other peoples lives. He had 'known' it for some time but one day it hit him hard. He wanted out. He couldn't escape. He knew his own life was a mess but that was of little consequence in the light of the harm and abuse that others suffered at his frivolity, as serious as his drinking was. He was, after all, a man, a real man who could handle his booze better than any other.
This man turned to even more serious drinking in order to drown it all out. It was nothing to swallow a large bottle of over-proof rum each evening after a days solid drinking, mind you. This was his way of dealing with something he could not master. It brought him to a place where misery reigned and tears flowed.... effortlessly. Tears for all the wrong and hurt that others suffered.
A mess and one without any chance of ever being free.
It was at that time he started calling out to God to help him. The cries became more and more serious. The alcohol battled back with vengeance. His marriage was broken as much as he was, never to be repaired, with two young boys left without a dad in their lives. (enough to send any mortal man to the drink!) No money, no future. Others he drank with were dying, literally. More drink to smother the pain.
But still he cried out for help. And continued in his repulsive ego and pride.
One day, when going to collect more supplies (of alcohol, no less), drunk and behind the wheel, he took an extra unopened beer with him with the thought of "just in case", even though it would only be a quarter hour maximum before returning and even though had a fresh one in one hand... and even though he would have plenty once he had picked up the daily supply.
Upon returning he noticed that beer still unopened between his legs where he had carefully placed it at the onset of his quest. Carefully he always handled every drop, and with tenderness that makes the most passionate lover look clumsy he protected and held his love.
But what happened at that precise moment was that he realized he did not want that drink.
To this day, and it has been twenty years now and still he has never ever wanted any alcohol whatsoever. He knew without any doubt that the Lord had set him free.
Many times he has been asked and encouraged since to partake in the sin he once delighted in but he has never ever ever since then ever had the slightest desire to ever have another alcoholic drink and remains a sober man to this day.
He knows for sure, without any doubt whatsoever, that he himself had absolutely no strength in himself to beat the sin that held him for all those years. It was completely a free gift of deliverance and mercy, and as many would probably agree, of grace.
In respect to his past, he is a new man.
Sometimes others have been to places of great sin, They have such a depth of vile and despising, shameful lives in their old self that they would never ever in the slightest whim entertain returning to even sniff at the ways they have, by the love of God in Christ Jesus the Lord, been delivered from.
And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. Luke 7:40-43
May you know His peace and be filled with joy in believing.
Bless you ....><>
And He turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for My feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment.
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
And they that sat at meat with Him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And He said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace. Luke 7:44-50
yes, it is.
May i tell you a true story?
I knew a fellow who used to drink.... alcohol. He was a drunkard by all interpretation. He drank like no other man I have ever known. He was a glutton of a drunk and drank far beyond what was humanly and medically possible.
He used to be very proud and determined to show everyone that he could out drink any other. He had a real problem, a very real problem not only with alcohol but also with pride and stupidity (foolishness). Regarding his addiction, this man could not go one half hour without consuming alcohol, except for the few hours he 'slept'. Upon awakening, if a drink (a big drink) was not consumed within that half hour, his trembling hands could hardly hold the glass.
He justified his ways before anyone and flaunted his ability to prove his self made justification program.
In his eyes, all others were inferior and he knew it. No man could or would even dare to drink as he did. many tried but fell quickly under the intoxicating effects of alcohol.
One day he realized he was messing up other peoples lives. He had 'known' it for some time but one day it hit him hard. He wanted out. He couldn't escape. He knew his own life was a mess but that was of little consequence in the light of the harm and abuse that others suffered at his frivolity, as serious as his drinking was. He was, after all, a man, a real man who could handle his booze better than any other.
This man turned to even more serious drinking in order to drown it all out. It was nothing to swallow a large bottle of over-proof rum each evening after a days solid drinking, mind you. This was his way of dealing with something he could not master. It brought him to a place where misery reigned and tears flowed.... effortlessly. Tears for all the wrong and hurt that others suffered.
A mess and one without any chance of ever being free.
It was at that time he started calling out to God to help him. The cries became more and more serious. The alcohol battled back with vengeance. His marriage was broken as much as he was, never to be repaired, with two young boys left without a dad in their lives. (enough to send any mortal man to the drink!) No money, no future. Others he drank with were dying, literally. More drink to smother the pain.
But still he cried out for help. And continued in his repulsive ego and pride.
One day, when going to collect more supplies (of alcohol, no less), drunk and behind the wheel, he took an extra unopened beer with him with the thought of "just in case", even though it would only be a quarter hour maximum before returning and even though had a fresh one in one hand... and even though he would have plenty once he had picked up the daily supply.
Upon returning he noticed that beer still unopened between his legs where he had carefully placed it at the onset of his quest. Carefully he always handled every drop, and with tenderness that makes the most passionate lover look clumsy he protected and held his love.
But what happened at that precise moment was that he realized he did not want that drink.
To this day, and it has been twenty years now and still he has never ever wanted any alcohol whatsoever. He knew without any doubt that the Lord had set him free.
Many times he has been asked and encouraged since to partake in the sin he once delighted in but he has never ever ever since then ever had the slightest desire to ever have another alcoholic drink and remains a sober man to this day.
He knows for sure, without any doubt whatsoever, that he himself had absolutely no strength in himself to beat the sin that held him for all those years. It was completely a free gift of deliverance and mercy, and as many would probably agree, of grace.
In respect to his past, he is a new man.
Sometimes others have been to places of great sin, They have such a depth of vile and despising, shameful lives in their old self that they would never ever in the slightest whim entertain returning to even sniff at the ways they have, by the love of God in Christ Jesus the Lord, been delivered from.
And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And He said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. Luke 7:40-43
May you know His peace and be filled with joy in believing.
Bless you ....><>
And He turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest Me no water for My feet: but she hath washed My feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest Me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss My feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed My feet with ointment.
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And He said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.
And they that sat at meat with Him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And He said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace. Luke 7:44-50
Born Again 2004
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Whew! Was there a point for me in all that?
That was a direct quote from the KJV of the bible.
And, thus very possible.
The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (that is, in my flesh).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.
If your version of the bible allows you to continue on in the flesh instead of in the Spirit, you should get a different version.
It certainly manifests that it is not of the God who fosters perfect obedience from those He loves.
What does your version of the bible say in 1 Cor 15:34?
The KJV says..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."
What does your version of the bible say in 2 Tim 2:19?
The KJV says..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
If your bible is side-stepping the doctrine which is according to Godliness, (1 Tim 6:3), you should find a version that doesn't.
That is good advice for all of us!
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. Romans 13:11
Greetings,
may I ask all who read this post and want to reply to it (and the quoted post it refers to, please look at it as an excercise for all us grown up children to consider it all in the light of the OP. By this, I mean that we look to see if the points raised in Scripture are something that is required of becoming as little children or excercising child like faith or could it be that we must first become children and then resort to adults again in the manner we go about understanding the Scriptures, etc.
If that doesn't make sense, please excuse me and tell me!
Another way to say some of that is, can we please avoid any arguing and instead see how the Scriptures used can be applied to the child like faith that this OP was about?
To refresh your memories, here is the quote from the first post by Dave.
Now, looking at AT Peace's post (below) can we consider the Scriptures used in it in the light of how and when and why we need to be like little children?
Looking forward to wholesome and kind replies, please.
Bless you all ....><>
may I ask all who read this post and want to reply to it (and the quoted post it refers to, please look at it as an excercise for all us grown up children to consider it all in the light of the OP. By this, I mean that we look to see if the points raised in Scripture are something that is required of becoming as little children or excercising child like faith or could it be that we must first become children and then resort to adults again in the manner we go about understanding the Scriptures, etc.
If that doesn't make sense, please excuse me and tell me!
Another way to say some of that is, can we please avoid any arguing and instead see how the Scriptures used can be applied to the child like faith that this OP was about?
To refresh your memories, here is the quote from the first post by Dave.
Now, looking at AT Peace's post (below) can we consider the Scriptures used in it in the light of how and when and why we need to be like little children?
Looking forward to wholesome and kind replies, please.
Bless you all ....><>
Thank you Bro Bear for the exhortations regarding our keeping childlike...pure...faith in scripture as well as in God Himself.
When we consider God's will, that being, our love and submission to Him, it seems easy to differentiate His truth from the things men have interjected which cause our faith to subside.
God says..."love your neighbor as you love yourself". (Matt 22:36-40)
Men say..."a white lie is OK".
Men say..."It is OK to kill if you are protecting others".
God says..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". (Matt 5:48)
Men say..."nobody is perfect".
Men say..."we are to try to be perfect but can't with fleshly bodies and minds".
Have childlike, perfect, faith in this..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (1 Cor 10:13)
God is faithful...
Greetings,
yes, He is faithful. We can and should as His Children acknowledge and rejoice in that, in Him.
May I offer what might be as a spanner in the works? (but, doesn't have to be)
Adam... And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31
Was Adam a child?
We are told that what God made was good, very good.
Not much is written about Adam after he was chastised. Did he cease to be good?
Most would agree that the Lord Jesus Christ was since before the foundation of the world.
So, how do we put it all together?
In a different thread that did not ever look at the OP and get discussed I attempted to show what might have been the purpose of the Cross from the beginning.
Taking a big stand back, God made all things very good, man included with prior preparation for the redemption of man and all things in His Son.
In the New Testament Jesus says that except one becomes as a little child.... could someone please finish that?
Bless you ....><>
yes, He is faithful. We can and should as His Children acknowledge and rejoice in that, in Him.
May I offer what might be as a spanner in the works? (but, doesn't have to be)
Adam... And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31
Was Adam a child?
We are told that what God made was good, very good.
Not much is written about Adam after he was chastised. Did he cease to be good?
Most would agree that the Lord Jesus Christ was since before the foundation of the world.
So, how do we put it all together?
In a different thread that did not ever look at the OP and get discussed I attempted to show what might have been the purpose of the Cross from the beginning.
Taking a big stand back, God made all things very good, man included with prior preparation for the redemption of man and all things in His Son.
In the New Testament Jesus says that except one becomes as a little child.... could someone please finish that?
Bless you ....><>
Curtis
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If "faith" comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God how could anyone go wrong? If Jesus is the Word of God, and he is, and if he asks us to have faith in him that comes from him, no one can go wrong. Think about, Jesus gives us his faith so we can have faith in him, how cool is that?
