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Defining Sin - An Open Study

gdemoss

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
792
My hope for this thread is that we can have an open bible study on the biblical definition of sin. How do we know if something is sin or not today? How did others previous to our time know what sin was? Is it still sin if you don't know that it is? Are there different degrees of sin? What is a sin unto death? What is a sin not unto death? What does it mean that sin dwells in me? Can we avoid sin? Do we have power over sin? These are just a few questions to stir your minds brethren. I'd like to stay away from things like the effects of sin though.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: Mt 7:7

I have a request. Will you please use the following formula for posting in this thread?

Consider the topic and decide what aspects of sin you would like to address. Then respond with whatever input you have to help add to our study. Ask any questions that you may have. Above all exercise restraint from either posting no scripture to go with your commentary or posting nothing but scripture with no commentary as to why you selected it.

Please remember this is a bible study and not a debate. Feel free to disagree with what someone posts but refrain from engaging in debate by thinking you need to correct everything that you personally perceive is wrong with their input. This study is not about being critical of each other.

We are on the internet and accessible to anyone with a computer and google. We have the opportunity to build a useful thread that God can direct people to. Lets glorify his Name.

my love to you all,

Gary
 
How do we know if something is sin or not today? How did others previous to our time know what sin was?
Gen 2:16-17 NKJV And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; (17) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Rom 5:12 NKJV Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—


We know sin entered the world through one man, Adam, and that sin was disobeying an instruction from God.

So sin is disobeying God.
 
So, what is sin according to God? Let’s search God’s word to find the answer…

Prov.21
[4] An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

Prov.24
[9] The thought of foolishness is sin:

Rom.14
[23] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

James 4
[17] Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 5
[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Above we have a few scriptures that point to what sin is, but even these are somewhat vague. How are we to know for a surety what is righteous or what is unrighteous? How are we to know for certain what God considers good and what He deems bad? Would God leave it up to man to decide what should be considered good and bad? Would a perfect God let a corruptible man determine what is righteous and what is unrighteous? Of course not. Let's find a definition of sin that can be used for all times and for all people. Let’s read what God considers sin;

1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Finally, a clear and simple definition of sin. It is the definition in God’s word that truly tells man what sin is. “For sin is the transgression/breaking of the law.” And it is not just any law. When we sin we are breaking the laws of the almighty God.

Just as the other poster said, "...sin is disobeying God."

But let's understand something, we are not only sinning when we do something that God tells us NOT to do, but we are also sinning when we do NOT do something that God tells us TO do!

.
 
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin. Rom. 14:23
 
Anything outside of the simple ten commandments is a sin. They sum it up perfectly. They are the moral laws of God, and never change.

All sins of man can be found in them, so if one accepts these as a guide, all is cool.

Also we have in our own conscious the knowledge of what is a sin. I know right or wrong, no one has to tell me.

Kit
 
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There are four verses that tell us what sin is: (Rom 14:23) & (James 4:17) & (1 John 3:4) & (1 John 5:17)

1. (Rom 14:23) God´s Word tells us "whatsoever" is not of faith is sin. Not some things or most things, but rather all things is what "whatsoever" means here.
And knowing that faith comes [only] by hearing the Word of God, we are compelled to keep ourselves from not living outside of faith, which is where sin lies, because they who are actually just shall live by faith.
2. (James 4:17) Even a person who never was told that stealing is wrong and a sin, will still try to steal with apprehension, because it is in our basic conscience to know this is wrong. Therefore when we do indeed know something is right, and we do it not, we know it is sin.
3. (1 John 3:4) The defiance of doing what God tells us is right is sin, and the defiance of avoiding what God tells us is wrong is sin. But this goes back to faith which can only be obtained by hearing God´s Word.
4. (1 John 5:17) In plain truth, what is not right according to the will of God is where sin lies, and nothing wavering.

The avoidance of sin is always by remaining faithful in accepting and relying upon God´s Word.
 
How did others previous to our time know what sin was?

God's laws are for ALL of mankind. From day one it has been this way. Those in the OT were either told by God what sin was, or it was passed down by word of mouth. At some point it was conveyed to man what the true and living God considered what was right, and what was wrong.

To sin is to break God's laws. ALL of mankind has sinned, therefor ALL of mankind has broken God's laws.

"For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not."

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

.


.
 
I'd like to take a look at the definition of sin by defining it in the Hebrew. I think one definition sticks out to me in understanding the place of the Torah in our lives: 'avon comes from a root word that is an archer's term; it means 'to miss the mark' and more accurately, it shows a deviation from the trajectory that leads to the bullseye.

What mark are we missing? Torah comes from the root word Yarah and is another archer's term. It literally means 'to shoot an arrow'. It denotes the very trajectory of the arrow as it travels to the bullseye. Torah means instruction and teaching on its own, but when we look at the roots of 'sin' and 'Torah', the understanding changes a bit. Instead of being about wrong doing, we are taught that we are deviating from the design for our lives.

Another thought comes to my mind: if sin is deviation from the trajectory we are to go, what is the bullseye? Yeshua of Nazareth is the bullseye. He lived the Law in perfect union with the Father and His call for us to live like Him is our bullseye.

Hope this is a helpful illustration.
 
Anything outside of the simple ten commandments is a sin. They sum it up perfectly. They are the moral laws of God, and never change.

All sins of man can be found in them, so if one accepts these as a guide, all is cool.

Also we have in our own conscious the knowledge of what is a sin. I know right or wrong, no one has to tell me.

Kit
What about the Sermon on the Mount?
Matt. 5:21-You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to a judgment. But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment.....

Jesus goes on and on in the sermon of the mount explaining it's not just about refraining from the sins mentioned in the Ten Commandments like the Pharisees and scribes did.

Also, your comment about having knowledge of our sin, can't we deceive ourselves? Isn't spiritual deception entirely possible?
 
What about the Sermon on the Mount?
Matt. 5:21-You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to a judgment. But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment.....

Jesus goes on and on in the sermon of the mount explaining it's not just about refraining from the sins mentioned in the Ten Commandments like the Pharisees and scribes did.

Also, your comment about having knowledge of our sin, can't we deceive ourselves? Isn't spiritual deception entirely possible?

Some of that stuff gets a bit over my head. Some of it may even be for the new earth , the new creation where the meek will inherit the earth.

Oaths, yes understand, that is spoken of. To not allow anger to rule you, I understand, but also God has used believers to fight his purpose and one cannot fight without anger. I have been in Vietnam and was a police officer for a time, and one cannot simply turn the the other cheek in a literal way. You can be nice, and not wish to harm anyone and tolerate many things as long as they are not an immediate threat of physical harm or death. If they are , we are justified in action to prevent them.

So to me the ten commandments seem to cover about all of it. Not to lie, steal, show honor, treat others as you wish to be , give honor to God and so on.

Can mans own spirit deceive him or us.....it can try, mine will try sometimes, but the Holy Spirit always says, behave, do not do that. At least this is so for me. God tells us we are evil, but he also gave us the Holy Spirit for a companion.

Even the simple things, just a bit ago , I always have a bible open on the table, read it all the time, and a fly was bothering me, and I was going to swat at the fly, in fact I did, but missed, and I felt my spirit do it on purpose, Do not swat the fly on Gods Word.......might seem silly to you, but not to me.

For me if I start to do something wrong, I get a talking to, my inner spirit says NO!! But I am also allowed to carry my six gun if need be. Anger to commit murder is wrong, and is to be controlled, but anger is also justified sometimes. It all depends on what you do with it, how you control it and what the consequences are .

Gods anger is perfect and fully just, sometimes ours is not. A way to explain that is and to me is as a police officer and if you do need to use force, you are not really angry, you are simply doing what needs to be done to effect the incapacitation of the threat. If you get angry , it may cause you to do most anything, such as a crime of passion or domestic violence.

Good point about anger. Some of the rest of it does go over my head. Especially that turn the other cheek, to me that is what is wrong with the world, even we as Christians seem to use that to allow all things. I do not think this is what it means.
Someone has to keep order......if not there will be no meek left
None of this is scripture based, just me. What life and God has taught me.

Kit
 
What is a sin unto death? What is a sin not unto death?
This is very interesting and I've never heard a definitive description of "sin unto death".

1Jn 5:15-17 NKJV And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him. (16) If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. (17) All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

We know God has punished some people with instant death for particular sin eg. Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5 , and possibly this is what John meant. Another explanation of sin unto death could be unbelief but we know Jesus prayed for the very people who persecuted and crucified Him.

The only unforgivable sin we know of from the bible is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit .

Mar 3:28-30 NKJV "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; (29) but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation"— (30) because they said, "He has an unclean spirit."

Maybe John was speaking about this.

"Sin not unto death" would be any sin other than "sin unto death". lol
 
Well Paul in Corinthians chapter 5 first book speaks of a man who took his fathers wife and Paul wants the church to turn the man over to Satan, so the flesh can die, but spirit be saved.......

Which is complicated, if one dies, how can one repent and be saved??

So sin unto death would be a sin not repented, or to speak against the Holy Spirit or provide false doctrines, but sin not unto death I think would be us, or Paul or anyone to pray for the person to acknowledge the sin, and repent and walk away from it.

So if a person deliberately and with malice and aggression and total will turns from God and says I will do as I will do and will not listen, this would be sin unto death. No hope for that person, as long as they continue in that attitude.

But if we pray to God for God to intercede and turn that person around, then the sin is not unto death if they accept and repent.......

I think........ya all are making my brain hurt. Lol!!

Kit
 
There have been some excellent posts in this thread so far. I am excited to see my brothers and sisters working together to study.


How do we know if something is sin or not today? How did others previous to our time know what sin was?

I have thought about sin over time and began to understand that although sin has been around since the beginning of creation, it didn't have a good definition. We are told that from Adam to Moses sin was in the world but not being imputed without law. Did those who lived know that they were sinning since they had no law (Rom 3:20)?

Abraham was said to have kept God's law (Gen 26:5) 430 years before the law came. The word Torah translated law has a broader meaning than our English word law. It can simply mean instruction or teaching. It could include something like the command given to Noah not to eat of the blood of animals. A law which Abraham must have kept. To eat of the blood would have been sin as God had commanded them to abstain. It wasn't that there was no 'law', just not 'the law' as commonly referred to.

By the time of Moses there were a lot of transgressions and God introduced 'the law' to the Israelites through Moses (Ex 20:1-18). By the law was the knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20). The law did not cover every possible sin (Ac 13:39). And only the Israelites had it (Rom 2:12). Sin now had a fairly good definition but not complete. There were some parts of the law, such as dietary laws, that were implemented not because it was sin to eat the animals. We can look back to Noah who was given permission to eat all animals without restriction. We know that God would not have given Noah permission to sin. And again the restriction is not enforce according to Paul in 1 Tim 4:4.

Enter Jesus Christ, the Son of God, The brightness of Gods glory, the sinless one. The righteousness of God without the law manifest in the likeness of sinful flesh. The Just and Holy one. The Word of God walking among us. The Way, the Truth and the Eternal Life. The exact opposite of sin.

If it is said that the law entered due to transgressions, we should equally say that Jesus Christ entered to remove all doubt of what sin is. To paint a picture of true obedience to God the Father. We are told that we are under grace and that it does not mean that we can sin (Rom 6:15-16). Even though we are under grace we will still die if we are obedient to sin.

One of the most perplexing arguments is whether we are still under Old Covenant law (Torah). If so then the things contained there in would establish a basis for understanding sin. An excellent argument to support this idea would be that Jesus himself was a Jew and kept the law, therefore we as followers of him would naturally keep the law. Jesus taught the law to others. Jesus told people they would have everlasting life by keeping the commandments.

An interesting thing is shown to us in the book of Acts. Paul goes to Jerusalem and declares Gods work among the Gentiles to James and the elders. Due to rumors that Paul is telling Jews to forsake the law, James and the elders tell him to do a public display of obedience to the law to show that he keeps the law. But they added that the Gentiles were given no such command to keep the law (Acts 21:17-25).

Looking over the books of the New Testament we see various writings to various people. The four gospels cover the time of Christs life. Acts shows the birth of the church and its spreading over a greater area. Romans is a letter to the church in Rome and appears to be written to both Jew and Gentile (Rom 1:7). 1 Cor, 2 Cor, Gal, Eph, Col, Phil, 1 Thes and 2 Thes, 1 Pe and 2 Pe are all letters to Gentile churches. Through these letters we get a solid understanding of what God says to gentile believers. 1 Tim, 2 Tim and Titus are written to Gentiles and give instruction on the church as they were helping Paul to establish Gentile churches. Hebrews and James were written to Jews.

Although things found in the book of James may apply to Gentile believers, we need to consider that it was written with Jews in mind. If I were writing a letter to my female children, some of the things included may apply to my boy children but I would write the letter as if it were to my female children alone. This James who wrote the letter to the 12 tribes is the same James who also wrote to the Gentiles that they were not to keep the law. The book of James is full of references to the law and keeping it.

I must admit that I am still unsure about whether the law is still applicable to the Jews. But I am confident that it is not for the Gentile believer as it never was. So how does the Gentile understand sin if not by the law? The answer is Jesus Christ and the Word in the form of the New Testament. We are still expected to follow Jesus (not by keeping the law as he had to do being a Jew) but putting on the Lord Jesus. His character. The divine nature. We begin by doing as he did and empty ourselves of self Phi 2:7. Then humble ourselves and become obedient Phi 2:8. The corruption that is in the world is due to lust or human desire 2 Pe 1:4. One who truly empties himself of self looses all desire for material possession, all need to be respected by others and quests focused on personal fulfillment or enjoyment. There mind is focused on the task at hand, fulfilling the great commission and edifying the body of Christ until the Lord returns.

My conclusion for how a believer is to identify sin is to understand the selflessness of Jesus Christ. And to realize that the divine nature is selfless while the human nature is selfish. Selfishness and selfcenteredness are sin. If we keep ourselves from these we shall then be loving God with all of our heart, mind, soul and body and our neighbor as our self. Whether Jew or Gentile.
 
There have been some excellent posts in this thread so far. I am excited to see my brothers and sisters working together to study.




I have thought about sin over time and began to understand that although sin has been around since the beginning of creation, it didn't have a good definition. We are told that from Adam to Moses sin was in the world but not being imputed without law. Did those who lived know that they were sinning since they had no law (Rom 3:20)?

Abraham was said to have kept God's law (Gen 26:5) 430 years before the law came. The word Torah translated law has a broader meaning than our English word law. It can simply mean instruction or teaching. It could include something like the command given to Noah not to eat of the blood of animals. A law which Abraham must have kept. To eat of the blood would have been sin as God had commanded them to abstain. It wasn't that there was no 'law', just not 'the law' as commonly referred to.

By the time of Moses there were a lot of transgressions and God introduced 'the law' to the Israelites through Moses (Ex 20:1-18). By the law was the knowledge of sin (Rom 3:20). The law did not cover every possible sin (Ac 13:39). And only the Israelites had it (Rom 2:12). Sin now had a fairly good definition but not complete. There were some parts of the law, such as dietary laws, that were implemented not because it was sin to eat the animals. We can look back to Noah who was given permission to eat all animals without restriction. We know that God would not have given Noah permission to sin. And again the restriction is not enforce according to Paul in 1 Tim 4:4.

Enter Jesus Christ, the Son of God, The brightness of Gods glory, the sinless one. The righteousness of God without the law manifest in the likeness of sinful flesh. The Just and Holy one. The Word of God walking among us. The Way, the Truth and the Eternal Life. The exact opposite of sin.

If it is said that the law entered due to transgressions, we should equally say that Jesus Christ entered to remove all doubt of what sin is. To paint a picture of true obedience to God the Father. We are told that we are under grace and that it does not mean that we can sin (Rom 6:15-16). Even though we are under grace we will still die if we are obedient to sin.

One of the most perplexing arguments is whether we are still under Old Covenant law (Torah). If so then the things contained there in would establish a basis for understanding sin. An excellent argument to support this idea would be that Jesus himself was a Jew and kept the law, therefore we as followers of him would naturally keep the law. Jesus taught the law to others. Jesus told people they would have everlasting life by keeping the commandments.

An interesting thing is shown to us in the book of Acts. Paul goes to Jerusalem and declares Gods work among the Gentiles to James and the elders. Due to rumors that Paul is telling Jews to forsake the law, James and the elders tell him to do a public display of obedience to the law to show that he keeps the law. But they added that the Gentiles were given no such command to keep the law (Acts 21:17-25).

Looking over the books of the New Testament we see various writings to various people. The four gospels cover the time of Christs life. Acts shows the birth of the church and its spreading over a greater area. Romans is a letter to the church in Rome and appears to be written to both Jew and Gentile (Rom 1:7). 1 Cor, 2 Cor, Gal, Eph, Col, Phil, 1 Thes and 2 Thes, 1 Pe and 2 Pe are all letters to Gentile churches. Through these letters we get a solid understanding of what God says to gentile believers. 1 Tim, 2 Tim and Titus are written to Gentiles and give instruction on the church as they were helping Paul to establish Gentile churches. Hebrews and James were written to Jews.

Although things found in the book of James may apply to Gentile believers, we need to consider that it was written with Jews in mind. If I were writing a letter to my female children, some of the things included may apply to my boy children but I would write the letter as if it were to my female children alone. This James who wrote the letter to the 12 tribes is the same James who also wrote to the Gentiles that they were not to keep the law. The book of James is full of references to the law and keeping it.

I must admit that I am still unsure about whether the law is still applicable to the Jews. But I am confident that it is not for the Gentile believer as it never was. So how does the Gentile understand sin if not by the law? The answer is Jesus Christ and the Word in the form of the New Testament. We are still expected to follow Jesus (not by keeping the law as he had to do being a Jew) but putting on the Lord Jesus. His character. The divine nature. We begin by doing as he did and empty ourselves of self Phi 2:7. Then humble ourselves and become obedient Phi 2:8. The corruption that is in the world is due to lust or human desire 2 Pe 1:4. One who truly empties himself of self looses all desire for material possession, all need to be respected by others and quests focused on personal fulfillment or enjoyment. There mind is focused on the task at hand, fulfilling the great commission and edifying the body of Christ until the Lord returns.

My conclusion for how a believer is to identify sin is to understand the selflessness of Jesus Christ. And to realize that the divine nature is selfless while the human nature is selfish. Selfishness and selfcenteredness are sin. If we keep ourselves from these we shall then be loving God with all of our heart, mind, soul and body and our neighbor as our self. Whether Jew or Gentile.

Great post. Difficult for me to go with a couple of the ideas, as you and I have discussed already, Gary, but still great. I had a couple of questions.

If sin's definition is Torah, what changed that? Where is and why the change? Torah defined Messiah's character; how are we not to employ that for ourselves? Does emulating Him in character mean living as He lived? If not Torah, where the explicit command? If all become part of Israel, as Romans 11 says, how does this effect our following Torah?
 
Some of that stuff gets a bit over my head. Some of it may even be for the new earth , the new creation where the meek will inherit the earth.

Oaths, yes understand, that is spoken of. To not allow anger to rule you, I understand, but also God has used believers to fight his purpose and one cannot fight without anger. I have been in Vietnam and was a police officer for a time, and one cannot simply turn the the other cheek in a literal way. You can be nice, and not wish to harm anyone and tolerate many things as long as they are not an immediate threat of physical harm or death. If they are , we are justified in action to prevent them.

So to me the ten commandments seem to cover about all of it. Not to lie, steal, show honor, treat others as you wish to be , give honor to God and so on.

Can mans own spirit deceive him or us.....it can try, mine will try sometimes, but the Holy Spirit always says, behave, do not do that. At least this is so for me. God tells us we are evil, but he also gave us the Holy Spirit for a companion.

Even the simple things, just a bit ago , I always have a bible open on the table, read it all the time, and a fly was bothering me, and I was going to swat at the fly, in fact I did, but missed, and I felt my spirit do it on purpose, Do not swat the fly on Gods Word.......might seem silly to you, but not to me.

For me if I start to do something wrong, I get a talking to, my inner spirit says NO!! But I am also allowed to carry my six gun if need be. Anger to commit murder is wrong, and is to be controlled, but anger is also justified sometimes. It all depends on what you do with it, how you control it and what the consequences are .

Gods anger is perfect and fully just, sometimes ours is not. A way to explain that is and to me is as a police officer and if you do need to use force, you are not really angry, you are simply doing what needs to be done to effect the incapacitation of the threat. If you get angry , it may cause you to do most anything, such as a crime of passion or domestic violence.

Good point about anger. Some of the rest of it does go over my head. Especially that turn the other cheek, to me that is what is wrong with the world, even we as Christians seem to use that to allow all things. I do not think this is what it means.
Someone has to keep order......if not there will be no meek left
None of this is scripture based, just me. What life and God has taught me.

Kit
Some of that stuff gets a bit over my head. Some of it may even be for the new earth , the new creation where the meek will inherit the earth.
This is not the case at all, Jesus is clearly giving people instruction , not what will happen with a new earth. It's not a difficult concept, Jesus says that it's about your heart and not just your outward actions.
 
Good point about anger. Some of the rest of it does go over my head. Especially that turn the other cheek, to me that is what is wrong with the world, even we as Christians seem to use that to allow all things. I do not think this is what it means.
Someone has to keep order......if not there will be no meek left
None of this is scripture based, just me. What life and God has taught me.

Perhaps these words from the apostle Paul can clarify the issue: "Get rid of all bitterness, rage, and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." (Eph 4:31-32)

Turning the other cheek, in my view, does not mean excusing bad behavior or not punishing the guilty. Rather, it means forgiving them, not holding resentments or plotting personal revenge.

SLE
 
Perhaps these words from the apostle Paul can clarify the issue: "Get rid of all bitterness, rage, and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." (Eph 4:31-32)

Turning the other cheek, in my view, does not mean excusing bad behavior or not punishing the guilty. Rather, it means forgiving them, not holding resentments or plotting personal revenge.

SLE

Hi Ed:

Yes Sir I agree. To live and let live to a point, to forgive, not plot revenge and all those things.

But also like Paul throw those out of the church that deliberately flaunt their ways. To me this is how we got in the mess we are in today. All became so passive and non resistant that anything goes. All is forgiven and the typical answer today is let God take care of it. Do not judge anyone lest you be judged and for sure never just tell anyone you are wrong and until you change your behavior you are not welcome. This is never done so we roll along tolerating and allowing and society more and more each day gets worse.

I see it as normal in the age of today, where the churches preach what the people wish to hear, and tell them all is forgiven, and say God will take care of it. .........Well God wishes us to take care of it and simply not tolerate many things. This does not mean violence, but to act as a voice in our schools and society and governments to stop the destruction of society. Kinda late now, seems like we are on the path foretold.

But we have become the small minority......those of us who do wish to honor all, but also keep those who sin in full view of all at bay instead of accepting and allowing and thereby becoming influenced by them , yes we are now a very small voice.

So turning the other cheek, has become so standard it has been used to allow all things. The attitude of today is just forgive it, and let God handle it..........well he will one day and all who tolerate all this stuff will also fall.

God is always the same, and his lesson to us all shown long ago when he had his people simply kill those who were sacrificing humans and worshiping stuffed toads and idols, is to be used today as a lesson. We are in the age of Grace, which is now different , but we should not allow all the things that we do now tolerate. One only has to walk out the front door and look at the world to know this. We have become so passive that we have allowed our own destruction. We are so nice that a criminal is rewarded, a thief is simply moved to another job, and the church tells all, it is ok, we will pray for you , see you next Sunday.

Respectfully

Kit
 
Sin isn't some mysterious unknown undefined thing. Sin is simply knowing what is right, what is wrong, and choosing not to do it. We all know what is right, we all know what is wrong. There seems to be a movement in the church today asking us to "re-define" sin. Sin is all in minds, or sin isn't even biblical, or sin is simply your guilt, sin isn't black or white but some misty grey area that can't be defined... what a bunch of hogwash!!!

If you do something you know to be wrong (man's laws, God's laws or otherwise) it is sin. As someone else mentioned earlier, or not doing the right thing (which is ultimately doing the wrong thing) this is sin. The word sin literally means "missing the mark". Think of a bulls eye target with a dot in the middle and rings of different colors expanding from the center. Anytime you miss that small dot in the middle, it's sin.

All of us sin, even as Christians we continue to sin. The good news is, we are forgiven.
 
Hi Ed:

Yes Sir I agree. To live and let live to a point, to forgive, not plot revenge and all those things.

But also like Paul throw those out of the church that deliberately flaunt their ways. To me this is how we got in the mess we are in today. All became so passive and non resistant that anything goes. All is forgiven and the typical answer today is let God take care of it. Do not judge anyone lest you be judged and for sure never just tell anyone you are wrong and until you change your behavior you are not welcome. This is never done so we roll along tolerating and allowing and society more and more each day gets worse.

So turning the other cheek, has become so standard it has been used to allow all things. The attitude of today is just forgive it, and let God handle it..........well he will one day and all who tolerate all this stuff will also fall.

God is always the same, and his lesson to us all shown long ago when he had his people simply kill those who were sacrificing humans and worshiping stuffed toads and idols, is to be used today as a lesson. We are in the age of Grace, which is now different , but we should not allow all the things that we do now tolerate. One only has to walk out the front door and look at the world to know this. We have become so passive that we have allowed our own destruction. We are so nice that a criminal is rewarded, a thief is simply moved to another job, and the church tells all, it is ok, we will pray for you , see you next Sunday.

Respectfully

Kit

Matt 18:15-17 talks about dealing with sin in the church. There is a procedure and steps to follow, we don't immediately throw the sinner out, but on the other hand if they refuse to repent after going through the steps listed, then they are to be removed from the church.
 
Well Paul in Corinthians chapter 5 first book speaks of a man who took his fathers wife and Paul wants the church to turn the man over to Satan, so the flesh can die, but spirit be saved.......

Which is complicated, if one dies, how can one repent and be saved??

So sin unto death would be a sin not repented, or to speak against the Holy Spirit or provide false doctrines, but sin not unto death I think would be us, or Paul or anyone to pray for the person to acknowledge the sin, and repent and walk away from it.

So if a person deliberately and with malice and aggression and total will turns from God and says I will do as I will do and will not listen, this would be sin unto death. No hope for that person, as long as they continue in that attitude.

But if we pray to God for God to intercede and turn that person around, then the sin is not unto death if they accept and repent.......

I think........ya all are making my brain hurt. Lol!!

Kit

This is a figurative death Paul is speaking of here. There are many verses in the Bible that says we are to "put the old man man"or the "old ways" to death. To put the "lustful desire of the flesh" to death. Do these verses mean to kill ourselves? Of course not. There other verses that talk about this life being a temporary thing "like a vapor, which passes quickly" and verses that say "don't fear those who can kill the body, but fear the one who has the power to destroy your soul". Sometimes in the Bible, God uses physical affliction to change people (it's amazing in his grace how far he is willing to go for us!!!)
 
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