Discussion about the Atoning Death of Christ

[Br. Bear]

Greetings again,

I know it is crude to use the following 'picture' in comparison to the Blood of the Lamb , so please excuse me if it offends any....

This site has been made available to all... every single person in the world (over 13 years of age - which has nothing to do with this as it is merely the legal age for use of the internet for sites like this).

If six billion people do not accept and utilise the site that has been offered free of any cost to them, that does not in any way make the open invitation and possibility to join of no effect.

One reason six billion people (or perhaps 5 billion if we take into account those under 13 years of age? but let us not split hairs about this) do not join TalkJesus is because they have not yet heard that the opportunity has been all put into place together with software and governance for good of all.

The question we really should be asking is, why haven't so many people heard the Gospel, 2000 odd years later? And, do we care.... YES or NO?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings again,

Yes it was irrelevant. It has nothing to do with whether or not one believes that sinners Christ died for are still lost. If one believes that then they don't believe Christ death alone saves.

I gave what I considered to be correct but I also realise that I can not speak for the member you specifically address as to whether they consider it to be irrelevant. I can only imagine that they considered it to relevant, and that is why they posted as they did.

Rather than get into an argument with you over this I will simply say that no Scripture is irrelevant to any other Scripture. Do you agree? (Yes or No? as you put it)


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

(NOTE: part of this post is in reference to the Thread where this thread was moved from/created by a Moderator. Those parts about the starter of this thread should be ignored except for the context of the discussion they are part of, which includes a back and forth from Member beloved57 and Moderator Br. Bear. Thank you for your understanding)



Greetings, me again,

I was wondering if you @beloved57 thought whether the starter of this thread thought or considered if your posts and input and questions were relevant... or not? You might have noticed that the Member who started this thread put a lot of time and effort into it.
Does that matter to you or not? You are allowed to answer me.


Bless you ....><>

 

[beloved57]

(NOTE: part of this post is in reference to the Thread where this thread was moved from/created by a Moderator. Those parts about the starter of this thread should be ignored except for the context of the discussion they are part of, which includes a back and forth from Member beloved57 and Moderator Br. Bear. Thank you for your understanding)

Greetings, me again,

I was wondering if you @beloved57 thought whether the starter of this thread thought or considered if your posts and input and questions were relevant... or not? You might have noticed that the Member who started this thread put a lot of time and effort into it.
Does that matter to you or not? You are allowed to answer me.


Bless you ....><>


@Sue J Love please excuse this dialogue. I am not intentionally interrupting your thread. If needs be my content can and will be deleted along with any other irrelevant posts. Bless you ....><>

I can respond to the starter of this thread if asked. Now in the mean time if one believes that one for whom Christ has died for is still lost regardless, then they dont believe in Christ Saving death. This is about what Christ has done.

 

[Br. Bear]

(NOTE: part of this post is in reference to the Thread where this thread was moved from/created by a Moderator. Those parts about the starter of this thread should be ignored except for the context of the discussion they are part of, which includes a back and forth from Member beloved57 and Moderator Br. Bear. Thank you for your understanding)



Greetings,

I can respond to the starter of this thread if asked. Now in the mean time if one believes that one for whom Christ has died for is still lost regardless, then they dont believe in Christ Saving death. This is about what Christ has done.

thank you for your reply.

I would like to say that I represent the starter of this thread and all other members, as a Moderator, whether they like it or not so my question still stands and in the light of recent posts I would like to remind you that it is your choice.

anyway, now that you have made your point, perhaps you might like to move on instead of repeating your point?

If you are happy to do so, perhaps, please, could you tell me what we are to do with this Scripture?

O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in Him. Psalm 34:8

 

[beloved57]

(NOTE: part of this post is in reference to the Thread where this thread was moved from/created by a Moderator. Those parts about the starter of this thread should be ignored except for the context of the discussion they are part of, which includes a back and forth from Member beloved57 and Moderator Br. Bear. Thank you for your understanding)



Greetings,



thank you for your reply.

I would like to say that I represent the starter of this thread and all other members, as a Moderator, whether they like it or not so my question still stands and in the light of recent posts I would like to remind you that it is your choice.

anyway, now that you have made your point, perhaps you might like to move on instead of repeating your point?

If you are happy to do so, perhaps, please, could you tell me what we are to do with this Scripture?

O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in Him. Psalm 34:8

No that scripture is your responsibility to explain since you bring it up. I take full responsibility for the explaining of scripture i bring to discuss as i rightly should, however i feel you should take responsibility for scripture tou bring. Why have me study a verse to explain you bring yp when you haven't ?

 

[B-A-C]

So you don't believe that the blood of Christ alone shed for a person saved them? Yes or No

Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[beloved57]

Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Can you please answer the question with a simple yes or no ?

 

[B-A-C]

My Bible does not say "faith alone" anywhere in it. There are some things we are required to do.
The answer in the context you are asking is "no".

 

[beloved57]

My Bible does not say "faith alone" anywhere in it. There are some things we are required to do.
The answer in the context you are asking is "no".

Then there is no Faith in Christ. Thats unbelief. How can one have Faith in Christ as Saviour when they dont believe His Death/Blood saved them?

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Yes i do. But that question is irrelevant to the point. If one believes that sinners Christ died for are still lost and condemned then that person does not believe in the saving efficacy of Christ Blood. That's unbelief!

How about proving what you have shared by the scripture?

Here's the reproof to how you are applying that about His shed blood without belief in Him in order to apply that life saving blood in order to be saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If you are trying to preach universalism..(. I think that is what you are saying where everybody is saved, but they just don't know it yet ? ) then your notion is reproved when that verse testifies that sinners are still already condemned until they believe in Him to apply His shed blood for them.

 

[beloved57]

How about proving what you have shared by the scripture?

Here's the reproof to how you are applying that about His shed blood without belief in Him in order to apply that life saving blood in order to be saved.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If you are trying to preach universalism..(. I think that is what you are saying where everybody is saved, but they just don't know it yet ? ) then your notion is reproved when that verse testifies that sinners are still already condemned until they believe in Him to apply His shed blood for them.

You want me to provide scripture that prove that Jesus Christ death alone has saving efficacy? You don't believe that ?

 

[beloved57]

Jis4me

If you are trying to preach universalism..(. I think that is what you are saying where everybody is saved,

No i don't believe that . That's a false accusation.Please judge me according to what i write or post and not by your preconceived notions. Thanks

 

[Lanolin]

Beloved Please read the whole bible not just one verse. Also YOU are going against scripture with your words.

I know you are trying to say something about Jesus but it seems you are trying to say we beleivers arent believers? Your english does not come across well. Of course we believe in Jesus saving us and dying for us! We are not condemened if we believe. . An unbeliever of course does not believe! Thats plain!

Believers believe in Jesus, unbelievers dont.

Until we believe that Jesus died for us, we are in unbelief. Remember The apostle Paul, who wrote the letter to ephesians, was an unbeliever before he believed!!! Even though he had the israelite lineage and was circumcised and brought up with the old covenant and scriptures. He said he did things out of ignorance or unbelief. Paul even said he was the chief sinner!!!! Nobody is naturally born a believer...we must be born again. There is NO comdemnation in christ Jesus, for those who walk in the spirit not the flesh.

A believer walks in the spirit, an unbeliever walks in the flesh.

You really need to read the bible not just one verse. I was once an unbeliever, I was condemned, but now I am saved, because Jesus called me, by His grace. He died for me and gave his life for me.

When Paul was writing to the ephesians, who were gentiles, he was talking about how he was israelite, that they were chosen by God to be his special holy people, but now Jesus has made the way so that gentiles who were without God could also be saved to and be His special people. This is why we have the new covenant, and this is why we take the Lords supper because we believe in Jesus!

People on talkJesus have been trying to explain to you that scripture but it seems you refuse to listen. You need to read the Bible in context. Also you flip flop your statments all the time and so everyone is confused by your posts. One post you are claiming Jesus died for the church, and now in this one you are claiming Jesus died for sinners. And then you keep arguing against anyone who does not agree with you exactly. Nobody can win.

Well actually God loved us while we were YET sinners. Also the bible says fools enter into contention. Am not saying you are behaving like this but its a strange way of posting. Bless you anyway. Remember, you need to read the bible entirely not just a few verses.

By his grace we are saved, by his mercy sinners are still alive.

 

[Lanolin]

It is not Jesus death ALONE that saves. it is Jesus death AND his RESURRECTION. If you dont believe that Jesus died AND rose again, then your faith is in vain.

Because even muslims believe Jesus died! I mean even non christians would acknowledge Jesus actually died.

What would be a problem is when people dont believe that Jesus blood paid for their sin. Because we need to apply the blood of the lamb (Jesus) to our lives to keep us from sin. This blood was presented to God on the mercy seat, no other blood would do. It was Gods only son, that is why in Hebrews its explained that the blood of bulls and goats that were sacrificed everyday at the temple could never atone or be enough to pay for our sin.

I mean those bulls and goats were not resurrected were they.

 

[beloved57]

It is not Jesus death ALONE that saves. it is Jesus death AND his RESURRECTION. If you dont believe that Jesus died AND rose again, then your faith is in vain.

Because even muslims believe Jesus died! I mean even non christians would acknowledge Jesus actually died.

What would be a problem is when people dont believe that Jesus blood paid for their sin. Because we need to apply the blood of the lamb (Jesus) to our lives to keep us from sin. This blood was presented to God on the mercy seat, no other blood would do. It was Gods only son, that is why in Hebrews its explained that the blood of bulls and goats that were sacrificed everyday at the temple could never atone or be enough to pay for our sin.

I mean those bulls and goats were not resurrected were they.

Jesus death alone does save and Christ resurrection is the evidence of it. You deny the Saving Death of Christ. Now scripture says that by the Obedience of One many shall be made righteous. Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now to be made righteous is to be saved/Justified. Now how shall they be made righteous according to Rom 5:19 ?

 

[beloved57]

Lanolin

Believers believe in Jesus, unbelievers dont.

How can one believe in Jesus and dont believe His Death/Blood saved them it was shed for ? Thats unbelief!

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Jis4me

No i don't believe that . That's a false accusation.Please judge me according to what i write or post and not by your preconceived notions. Thanks

I said "if" and I was thinking you may be preaching universalism. Here is the quote of mine again below.

" If you are trying to preach universalism..(. I think that is what you are saying where everybody is saved, "

That is not an accusation when it is a statement made in question. I am glad you cleared it up.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

You want me to provide scripture that prove that Jesus Christ death alone has saving efficacy? You don't believe that ?

You seem to be avoiding providing the scripture in how you are applying His shed blood as saving without believing in Him, and so yes, I require you to provide the scripture because what you are saying goes against scripture of John 3:18

I believe in His shed blood; I believe in His resurrection; I believe in Him. That is what it means to believe in Him in order to be saved.

You come across as if His shed blood can save anyone without believing in Him. A lot of sinners saw Him shed His blood at the cross, and most of them did not believe in Him in spite of seeing and believing that His blood had been shed.

 

[amadeus2]

Yes i do. But that question is irrelevant to the point. If one believes that sinners Christ died for are still lost and condemned then that person does not believe in the saving efficacy of Christ Blood. That's unbelief!

No, that is your private interpretation:

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." II Peter 1:20

You are insisting that your interpretation is correct and that anyone who deviates slightly from it is in unbelief.. How many hearts are you able to read?

Pro 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.