Do you have a tatoo?

[Trevor]

Greetings Trevor,

So true.

If God had wanted me to have a picture on my body, I would have been born with one.

Bless you.

Unfortunately I never heard this wisdom when I was fourteen and ended up with second rate tattoos on my arms. But praise God, he saved me anyway. Bless you Paul.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Praise God he saved you brother, in Jesus Name Amen.

The important point I feel brother is, never condemn, criticise or judge a person with tattoos, the sins can be forgiven and washed away, the mark on the body is permanent.

Bless you

 

[NYQueens977]

Hi, NY Queens, you say there is no scripture forbidding tattoos, how about Laviticus 19:28?

Does the Old Testament Condemn Tattoos?

Does the prohibition of the law of Moses, against making "markings" in the flesh condemn modern tatoos?

www.christiancourier.com

 

[Trevor]

Does the Old Testament Condemn Tattoos?

Does the prohibition of the law of Moses, against making "markings" in the flesh condemn modern tatoos?

www.christiancourier.com

Hi NYQueens
Lev 19:28 Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourself. It doesn't only mention cuts it also mentions tattoos.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Hi guys

I looked a little further into the Hebrews words and definitions by translation

Leviticus 19:28 (KJV)
Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead,
nor print any marks upon you:
I am the LORD.

Leviticus 19:28 (NKJV)
You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead,
nor tattoo any marks on you:
I am the LORD.

The statement is clear as it starts 'Ye shall not'

Looking at the Hebrew word 'cuttings' we have...

Hebrew Strong's Number: 8296
Hebrew Word: ‏שֶׂרֶט‎
Transliteration: sereṭ
Phonetic Pronunciation: seh'-ret
Hebrew Word: ‏שָׂרֶטֶת‎
Transliteration: śāreṭet
Phonetic Pronunciation: saw-reh'-teth
Vine's Words: None

English Words used in KJV:
cuttings - 2 times

This word is only used twice in the Old Testament.
and sareteth, saw-reh'-teth; from <H8295> (sarat); an incision :- cutting.

Leviticus 19:28 (KJV)
Therefore Ye shall NOT make any cuttings or incision in the body

Now lets look at the Hebrew for 'marks'

Hebrew Strong's Number: 7085
Hebrew Word: ‏קַעֲקַע‎
Transliteration: qaʿaqaʿ
Phonetic Pronunciation: kah-ak-ah'
Vine's Words: None

English Words used in KJV:
marks - Only mentioned one time

This word is only used Once in the Old Testament
from the same as <H6970> (Qowa`); an incision or gash :- + mark. (Note mark included incision or cutting

Leviticus 19:28 (KJV)
Therefore Ye shall not make any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

From the Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

Shalom

 

[NYQueens977]

@Brother-Paul

Whatever you say, Brother Paul. This conversation is going on long enough. I've already said and repeated more than enough times why I believe the things I believe, how I process and interpret scripture, but at this point it's a fools errand. You're not interested in conversation, you're just interested in trying to convert my ideas into what you feel is acceptable. I'm done. If you want to keep this going as a conversation, then you can see me in my private messages.

 

[NYQueens977]

Hi NYQueens
Lev 19:28 Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourself. It doesn't only mention cuts it also mentions tattoos.

I've explained in my previous posts that tattoos were used as a form of worship in the ancient world. Pagan nations would tattoo their dead and gods onto their bodies as a form of worship, and they would cut their bodies to appease their gods. People nowadays don't typically get tattoos as a form of worship, but as an aesthetic. I don't see an issue with getting a tattoo for aesthetic purposes, whether it may be a flower or a bible verse, but apparently that seems to be an unpopular opinion.

 

[Trevor]

I've explained in my previous posts that tattoos were used as a form of worship in the ancient world. Pagan nations would tattoo their dead and gods onto their bodies as a form of worship, and they would cut their bodies to appease their gods. People nowadays don't typically get tattoos as a form of worship, but as an aesthetic. I don't see an issue with getting a tattoo for aesthetic purposes, whether it may be a flower or a bible verse, but apparently that seems to be an unpopular opinion.

Hi NYQueens,
Whether they use them to please there gods or have them as artworks to adorn their bodies, remembering that scripture says they will be lovers of themselves and Satan told Adam and Eve that they would become as gods, so it could be said that they are still doing it to please their own divinity, which is, it could be said, worshiping a false god. Just a thought

 

[NYQueens977]

Hi NYQueens,
Whether they use them to please there gods or have them as artworks to adorn their bodies, remembering that scripture says they will be lovers of themselves and Satan told Adam and Eve that they would become as gods, so it could be said that they are still doing it to please their own divinity, which is, it could be said, worshiping a false god. Just a thought

I don't understand your thought.

 

[Trevor]

I don't understand your thought.

In the garden of Eden Satan promised, that if Eve was to eat the forbidden fruit she would become like God, knowing good and evil. Well they ate, their eyes were opened, and they became as God, knowing good and evil. This is born out by the sinful nature that was inherited by mankind because of their disobedience, where, as the gods of Satan's promise, everyone has the answer and no-one can agree and the strongest are in control. In these last days it becomes even more apparent as people have become lovers of themselves and even more deluded in their own understandings. and many of them adorn themselves with piercings, tattoos, outrageous clothing and hairstyles, believing that these abominations enhance their divinity, when in fact, men are called by God to have short hair and walk in humility and women are called to dress modestly, and wear their hair long for God, who calls for it as a respectful covering. Christians are called to die to the ways of the world and their own desires, and take on the teachings of our King. So it could be said that the piercings, the tattoos etc.. are , as in the days gone by, worn to enhance and pay homage to, rather than the gods of old, their own divinity. I hope this explains my thoughts NYQueens977, bless you.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@Brother-Paul

Whatever you say, Brother Paul. This conversation is going on long enough. I've already said and repeated more than enough times why I believe the things I believe, how I process and interpret scripture, but at this point it's a fools errand. You're not interested in conversation, you're just interested in trying to convert my ideas into what you feel is acceptable. I'm done. If you want to keep this going as a conversation, then you can see me in my private messages.

Greetings sister

I am sorry you feel that way, but looking back at the conversations, yours have hardly changed, you don't accept Leviticus 19:28, you don't accept 1 Cor 6: you do accept a single website that suits your thoughts, you don't accept anything others have said on here, those who had tattoos and regretted it later, felt guilty later.

Looking at what I have tried to discuss with you, I have tried to explain some of the scriptures to you, I have even gone back to the Greek and Hebrew meanings of the words 'cuttings' and 'marks' to get a clearer view of what was meant in the initial language in Lev 19:28 not just taking the translations.

Leviticus 19:28 (NKJV)
You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the LORD.

This verse is a two part statement,

1 - You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead... and

2 - nor tattoo any marks on you:

I agree in the first part Moses was trying to prohibit pagan mourning rites referring to 'the dead'

Then in the second part it says,nor tattoo any marks ON YOU.

I also agree with this statement in ChristianCourier you added above...

The immediate context of Leviticus 19:27-28 suggests that Moses was attempting to inoculate Israel against the emulation of certain heathen practices related to idolatry.

Note the word Suggest... and for the first part of the statement the person is totally correct in saying this, but the person does not refer to the second part...
nor tattoo any marks ON YOU.

The person goes on to say... Since the New Testament does not address the issue of tattooing specifically, one must be guided by principle.
The NT doesn't specifically address tattooing, that is correct, and Jesus never came across it, so the Jews knew it was wrong to have tattoos in their body, as quoted in Leviticus 19. But what the person has over looked is 1 Cor 6 as we talked about earlier.

At this point I conclude my discussion, I pray the Truth in the Word will be revealed to you, preferably before you have a tattoo, if you haven't done so already, I have shared all things in love and hope you can see that. What ever you decide to believe, may the Lord Bless you and guide you.

Jesus loves you I do too.

 

[NYQueens977]

Greetings sister

I am sorry you feel that way, but looking back at the conversations, yours have hardly changed, you don't accept Leviticus 19:28, you don't accept 1 Cor 6: you do accept a single website that suits your thoughts, you don't accept anything others have said on here, those who had tattoos and regretted it later, felt guilty later.

Looking at what I have tried to discuss with you, I have tried to explain some of the scriptures to you, I have even gone back to the Greek and Hebrew meanings of the words 'cuttings' and 'marks' to get a clearer view of what was meant in the initial language in Lev 19:28 not just taking the translations.

Leviticus 19:28 (NKJV)
You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the LORD.

This verse is a two part statement,

1 - You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead... and

2 - nor tattoo any marks on you:

I agree in the first part Moses was trying to prohibit pagan mourning rites referring to 'the dead'

Then in the second part it says,nor tattoo any marks ON YOU.

I also agree with this statement in ChristianCourier you added above...

The immediate context of Leviticus 19:27-28 suggests that Moses was attempting to inoculate Israel against the emulation of certain heathen practices related to idolatry.

Note the word Suggest... and for the first part of the statement the person is totally correct in saying this, but the person does not refer to the second part...
nor tattoo any marks ON YOU.

The person goes on to say... Since the New Testament does not address the issue of tattooing specifically, one must be guided by principle.
The NT doesn't specifically address tattooing, that is correct, and Jesus never came across it, so the Jews knew it was wrong to have tattoos in their body, as quoted in Leviticus 19. But what the person has over looked is 1 Cor 6 as we talked about earlier.

At this point I conclude my discussion, I pray the Truth in the Word will be revealed to you, preferably before you have a tattoo, if you haven't done so already, I have shared all things in love and hope you can see that. What ever you decide to believe, may the Lord Bless you and guide you.

Jesus loves you I do too.

In the end of the day we are just two individuals who have their own take on scripture. Unlike what many Christians would like to believe, the Bible isn't clear on certain matters, not if you take social and literary context into consideration, and that is the nature of literary interpretation. You can take a line like, "the door is red" and different people will have different takeaways from it. And, unless you could speak to the original author to find out their intent, no interpretation is necessarily a wrong one.
The Bible is no exception. Various events in your life have lead you to a certain mindset where you interpret scripture in a certain way, and that's fine.
Something I've learned on this site is that people always seem to assume that they're right, and everyone else who disagrees with them is wrong, and I'm no exception. After all, we all agree on the basic principle that there is only one Truth, and that truth is God, and His guidelines. But what the Truth means specifically can vary from person to person, thus bringing in the concept of alternative beliefs that stem from the Truth. One may believe that there's nothing wrong to get a tattoo, another may see everything wrong with it. These are two conflicting beliefs, but what is the Truth? You and I, for the past couple of days, have been twisting and interpreting scripture to fit our own beliefs. You use Lev. and 1 Corinth. to prove that your belief if closer to the Truth than mine, but I interpret those scriptures as something completely different, not out of disobedience, but out of the logic and thought that God has given me.
So the Truth is that we can't say for certain what the Bible says on tattoos, not if we're looking at the verses and their contexts. It's not so much that I don't accept Lev. and 1 Corinth, but more so that I can't, not if I'm being honest with myself. No matter how many times you repeat these same verses to me, the meanings behind them don't change. Lev. makes a reference to putting tattoos on your body, yes, but as a means of worship. If you look at history, you would see that many countries at that time used tattoos and piercings as a form of worship, making it a sin of idolatry that God clearly prohibits in surrounding verses, most notably the ten commandments. {Fun fact, people in the ancient world would put piercings on their bodies because they believed iron can repel demons}. 1 Corinth. makes no clear reference to tattoos, but I can see why you would make the connection. After all, tattoos go on the body, and the body is not ours, so naturally we shouldn't put anything on our bodies and modify it in anyway. But I can't agree with that sentiment, because that is not my interpretation, it's yours. I see the verses for what it really says, that we need to maintain our bodies, just as if we were maintaining the temple. We need to make sure that our bodies are healthy if we can help it, but above all to maintain our sexual morality, as what Paul explicitly states. The reason why Paul goes so hard on sexual immorality was because the gentiles he was preaching to believed that the body and soul are separate, but Paul wanted them to know that what you do to your body also effects your spirit. Tattoos don't hurt your body or your spirit when done correctly, professionally, and with a sound mind, so I don't see how this verse relates to tattooing, and the same with piercings. Also, the bible never says that getting a tattoo is a defacing your body, so even though you've been saying that constantly throughout this discussion, I still have yet to see where in the Bible it says that. And being that you can't, it tells me that this distaste for tattoos is more of a personal conviction, rather than a biblical one, although you would like to believe it is one. This is dangerous, you know? To push personal beliefs as biblical ones, because it can bring the other person shame, guilt, and perhaps discomfort in their own church, which is especially unacceptable, in my belief, as there is no verse or reference in the bible that forbids people from doing so.
It's in times like these, when the Bible makes no clear reference as to what is right or wrong that we simply agree to disagree. To pray that the truth may be revealed to me is presumptuous, as it comes off as you assuming that I don't know any better, that you tried your best to convince me otherwise, and that I am now in the Lord's hands. However, I could very easily say the same thing to you, that you and everyone who doesn't agree with don't know any better, that I tried to convince you guys other wise, and now it's all in the Lord's hands. In other words, it's offensive, and an insult to someone's intelligence and their ability to think and come to their own conclusions, which is why I implore you, Brother Paul, to message me directly if you wish to have a proper discussion to further this topic on tattoos, not as someone who sees me as insolent, but as someone who sees me as a sister in christ with her own views and beliefs. If you don't wish to continue this discussion, then I can respect that, and this will be my last post in this discussion thread.

 

[Trevor]

In the end of the day we are just two individuals who have their own take on scripture. Unlike what many Christians would like to believe, the Bible isn't clear on certain matters, not if you take social and literary context into consideration, and that is the nature of literary interpretation. You can take a line like, "the door is red" and different people will have different takeaways from it. And, unless you could speak to the original author to find out their intent, no interpretation is necessarily a wrong one.
The Bible is no exception. Various events in your life have lead you to a certain mindset where you interpret scripture in a certain way, and that's fine.
Something I've learned on this site is that people always seem to assume that they're right, and everyone else who disagrees with them is wrong, and I'm no exception. After all, we all agree on the basic principle that there is only one Truth, and that truth is God, and His guidelines. But what the Truth means specifically can vary from person to person, thus bringing in the concept of alternative beliefs that stem from the Truth. One may believe that there's nothing wrong to get a tattoo, another may see everything wrong with it. These are two conflicting beliefs, but what is the Truth? You and I, for the past couple of days, have been twisting and interpreting scripture to fit our own beliefs. You use Lev. and 1 Corinth. to prove that your belief if closer to the Truth than mine, but I interpret those scriptures as something completely different, not out of disobedience, but out of the logic and thought that God has given me.
So the Truth is that we can't say for certain what the Bible says on tattoos, not if we're looking at the verses and their contexts. It's not so much that I don't accept Lev. and 1 Corinth, but more so that I can't, not if I'm being honest with myself. No matter how many times you repeat these same verses to me, the meanings behind them don't change. Lev. makes a reference to putting tattoos on your body, yes, but as a means of worship. If you look at history, you would see that many countries at that time used tattoos and piercings as a form of worship, making it a sin of idolatry that God clearly prohibits in surrounding verses, most notably the ten commandments. {Fun fact, people in the ancient world would put piercings on their bodies because they believed iron can repel demons}. 1 Corinth. makes no clear reference to tattoos, but I can see why you would make the connection. After all, tattoos go on the body, and the body is not ours, so naturally we shouldn't put anything on our bodies and modify it in anyway. But I can't agree with that sentiment, because that is not my interpretation, it's yours. I see the verses for what it really says, that we need to maintain our bodies, just as if we were maintaining the temple. We need to make sure that our bodies are healthy if we can help it, but above all to maintain our sexual morality, as what Paul explicitly states. The reason why Paul goes so hard on sexual immorality was because the gentiles he was preaching to believed that the body and soul are separate, but Paul wanted them to know that what you do to your body also effects your spirit. Tattoos don't hurt your body or your spirit when done correctly, professionally, and with a sound mind, so I don't see how this verse relates to tattooing, and the same with piercings. Also, the bible never says that getting a tattoo is a defacing your body, so even though you've been saying that constantly throughout this discussion, I still have yet to see where in the Bible it says that. And being that you can't, it tells me that this distaste for tattoos is more of a personal conviction, rather than a biblical one, although you would like to believe it is one. This is dangerous, you know? To push personal beliefs as biblical ones, because it can bring the other person shame, guilt, and perhaps discomfort in their own church, which is especially unacceptable, in my belief, as there is no verse or reference in the bible that forbids people from doing so.
It's in times like these, when the Bible makes no clear reference as to what is right or wrong that we simply agree to disagree. To pray that the truth may be revealed to me is presumptuous, as it comes off as you assuming that I don't know any better, that you tried your best to convince me otherwise, and that I am now in the Lord's hands. However, I could very easily say the same thing to you, that you and everyone who doesn't agree with don't know any better, that I tried to convince you guys other wise, and now it's all in the Lord's hands. In other words, it's offensive, and an insult to someone's intelligence and their ability to think and come to their own conclusions, which is why I implore you, Brother Paul, to message me directly if you wish to have a proper discussion to further this topic on tattoos, not as someone who sees me as insolent, but as someone who sees me as a sister in christ with her own views and beliefs. If you don't wish to continue this discussion, then I can respect that, and this will be my last post in this discussion thread.

The day will come when we all face the truth and the truth will judge us.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

I don't see an issue with getting a tattoo for aesthetic purposes

I got a part time job just so that I could save up for a cool dragon tattoo that covers my entire back

@NYQueens977

Your words and Biblical verses compared

In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1 Timothy 2: 9-10


Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken Thou me in Thy way.
Psalm 119:37


Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Philippians 4:8

 

[Fragrant Grace]

@NYQueens977

This is the link to the first post in the thread

He must Increase ...I must decrease

Perhaps take some time to read it

Oh, to be saved from myself, dear Lord,
Oh, to be lost in Thee,
Oh, that it may be no more I,
But Christ that lives in me.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I conclude with a simple statement

What would Jesus do?

Bless you.

 

[ForeverinHim]

I conclude with a simple statement

What would Jesus do?

Bless you.

Revelations 19:16

 

[Trevor]

Revelations 19:16

Worth meditation. bless you

 

[Brother-Paul]

Revelations 19:16

Greetings @ForeverinHim

There is no 's' on the end of Revelation, if you add one it stops the link bringing up the scripture.

Revelation 19:16

From Vine's Dictionary of New Testament Words
Thigh
Usage Number: 1 (once)
Strong's Number: <G3382>
Original Word: μηρός, mēros
Usage Notes: occurs in Rev 19:16; Christ appears there in the manifestation of His judicial capacity and action hereafter as the executor of Divine vengeance upon the foes of God; His name is spoken of figuratively as being upon His "thigh" (where the sword would be worn; cp. Psalm 45:3), emblematic of His strength to tread down His foes, His action being the exhibition of His Divine attributes of righteousness and power.

From: Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

Shalom

 

[ForeverinHim]

Greetings @ForeverinHim

There is no 's' on the end of Revelation, if you add one it stops the link bringing up the scripture.

Revelation 19:16

From Vine's Dictionary of New Testament Words
Thigh
Usage Number: 1 (once)
Strong's Number: <G3382>
Original Word: μηρός, mēros
Usage Notes: occurs in Rev 19:16; Christ appears there in the manifestation of His judicial capacity and action hereafter as the executor of Divine vengeance upon the foes of God; His name is spoken of figuratively as being upon His "thigh" (where the sword would be worn; cp. Psalm 45:3), emblematic of His strength to tread down His foes, His action being the exhibition of His Divine attributes of righteousness and power.

From: Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

Shalom

All I see is speculative reasoning, nothing concrete.