SpiritLedEd
Member
A good reference book on the subject of sickness and praying for the sick: "God On Mute -Engaging the silence of unanswered prayer" by Pete Grieg
SLE
Does God cause sickness as a test?
- Thread starter Quenton
- Start date
SLE
what denomination is he?
Brighthouse
Active
Brother Mike!!! WOW!! I have never heard of that!! The thorn was moving the people against Paul!!!This makes perfect sense to me!! I have learned something again in Jesus!! THANKS BRO!! I knew it was not a sickness,but to be honest I really was never to sure as to what this thorn represented?? NOW I do!! I sure do LOVE Holy Spirit when he speaks through us!! Praise God!!
Brother Mike
Member
Revelation by the Holy Spirit.
Thanks be to God Brighthouse...
Jesus already told Paul.... My Grace is sufficient....... More than enough.
Grace...............
Much needs to be looked at concerning Grace....
1Pe 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold (Many different types) grace of God.
1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Grace to help Stand:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Don't Discount the Grace:
Many when complimented say" Ah, it was nothing... just doing my part....." That is not recognizing God who gave the ability to do the task, and taking credit for yourself..."
Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Paul stated He did more work than the rest of the Apostles.. Pretty bold statement.... but He gave honor to what allowed him to do that... It was only by the Grace (Empowerment) of God to do it...
We should stop the false humility, and boldly say.. I am graced by God to do this and that, and I humble and abase myself for those areas I am not graced in.
Even the story of the pounds.. (Talents) It was about Money... but what was the issue??
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
The Pounds (talents to some) were not the gift.... It was a means to exercise the gift.... The real ability was the knowledge and grace to trade money. It was a financial grace in this case.... The Lord would have never expected them to trade, if they had not been given the grace and knowledge to do so....
Every man that is graced with knowledge, and ability is given by God the tools to exercise that ability... These men were taught about money matters....
Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? (Interest)
The Lord knew that this man was graced and had the knowledge to at least get interest from a bank..... Yet the man did nothing and despised that knowledge and grace.... He did nothing with the provision to operate his grace....
Here is something to think about.... did the man just given one talent know more than the rest?? and hence needed less to work with??
If the Lord called us to do something, there is more than enough material, and grace to accomplish the task... Trying to do it on our own, with our own intelligence and thinking that we know something about it, will just end in failure.... This is What Paul had Learned...
Jesus Is Lord.
Thanks be to God Brighthouse...
Jesus already told Paul.... My Grace is sufficient....... More than enough.
Grace...............
Much needs to be looked at concerning Grace....
1Pe 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold (Many different types) grace of God.
1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Grace to help Stand:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Don't Discount the Grace:
Many when complimented say" Ah, it was nothing... just doing my part....." That is not recognizing God who gave the ability to do the task, and taking credit for yourself..."
Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Paul stated He did more work than the rest of the Apostles.. Pretty bold statement.... but He gave honor to what allowed him to do that... It was only by the Grace (Empowerment) of God to do it...
We should stop the false humility, and boldly say.. I am graced by God to do this and that, and I humble and abase myself for those areas I am not graced in.
Even the story of the pounds.. (Talents) It was about Money... but what was the issue??
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
The Pounds (talents to some) were not the gift.... It was a means to exercise the gift.... The real ability was the knowledge and grace to trade money. It was a financial grace in this case.... The Lord would have never expected them to trade, if they had not been given the grace and knowledge to do so....
Every man that is graced with knowledge, and ability is given by God the tools to exercise that ability... These men were taught about money matters....
Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? (Interest)
The Lord knew that this man was graced and had the knowledge to at least get interest from a bank..... Yet the man did nothing and despised that knowledge and grace.... He did nothing with the provision to operate his grace....
Here is something to think about.... did the man just given one talent know more than the rest?? and hence needed less to work with??
If the Lord called us to do something, there is more than enough material, and grace to accomplish the task... Trying to do it on our own, with our own intelligence and thinking that we know something about it, will just end in failure.... This is What Paul had Learned...
Jesus Is Lord.
SpiritLedEd
Member
Brother Mike
Member
Reading bad books...
He is Pentecostal.
He is Pentecostal.
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just because someone is a CHristian doesn't mean ishould read their stuff
I never questioned your denomination when
I read your posts.
It's not the denomination but the Word of God
you should test others' words with.
just easier to know what someone believes based on their denomination i also don't watch every movie that comes out
Brother Mike
Member
Not the denomination, but the Word!!!
dannibear
If it were only that simple, everything would be great!!!
From a Bible College...........that is suppose to train bible students to send into the World and be a light....
College:"From the Word of God we often find those little gold nuggets of wisdom."
Me: "Every single Scripture, every Word, is the eternal living God, and God speaking to us. Everything should be taken heed to!! Everything."
College: On the women with the issue of Blood.
Luk 8:45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
Luk 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
College: "Jesus in his deity knew who touched him, and was wanting the women to confess. By her confession, He healed her.
Me: "Jesus said he healed her?? Jesus knew who touched him??" Simple understanding of English escapes these College types.. Amazing..
The list goes on...... You have a large class of people out there that read normal books just fine, can understand the way sentences are put together, but put a bible in front of them, and they can't read or understand anything if their life depended on it...
You can read them something, and they will be completely confused and tell you it says something completely different. Even reading it to them slowly they just look at you blinking like a Texas bullfrog in a Hail storm.....
So, one would think the Word would be good enough, but you would be surprised..
Jesus Is Lord.
dannibear
If it were only that simple, everything would be great!!!
From a Bible College...........that is suppose to train bible students to send into the World and be a light....
College:"From the Word of God we often find those little gold nuggets of wisdom."
Me: "Every single Scripture, every Word, is the eternal living God, and God speaking to us. Everything should be taken heed to!! Everything."
College: On the women with the issue of Blood.
Luk 8:45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
Luk 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
College: "Jesus in his deity knew who touched him, and was wanting the women to confess. By her confession, He healed her.
Me: "Jesus said he healed her?? Jesus knew who touched him??" Simple understanding of English escapes these College types.. Amazing..
The list goes on...... You have a large class of people out there that read normal books just fine, can understand the way sentences are put together, but put a bible in front of them, and they can't read or understand anything if their life depended on it...
You can read them something, and they will be completely confused and tell you it says something completely different. Even reading it to them slowly they just look at you blinking like a Texas bullfrog in a Hail storm.....
So, one would think the Word would be good enough, but you would be surprised..
Jesus Is Lord.
A reason people don’t understand the
Bible is that they are spiritually dead and blind.
Until God does a radical work of grace in someone’s
life, the Bible will always seem hard to understand.
Sure, we can all understand the 10 commandments.
But Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 1 and 2 that the
message of the cross is foolishness to some and a stumbling
block to others. Going further, he says that many
people cannot understand the Bible or its message because
these things are “spiritually discerned” (1 Cor. 2:14).
Bible is that they are spiritually dead and blind.
Until God does a radical work of grace in someone’s
life, the Bible will always seem hard to understand.
Sure, we can all understand the 10 commandments.
But Paul makes it clear in 1 Corinthians 1 and 2 that the
message of the cross is foolishness to some and a stumbling
block to others. Going further, he says that many
people cannot understand the Bible or its message because
these things are “spiritually discerned” (1 Cor. 2:14).
Brother Mike
Member
Spiritual Blindness.
Amen... the Word is Spiritually discerned.... yes... Foolishness to those that perish.
Awesome..(2Cor 4:4)
Now, is there a difference in these cases? , (2Pet 3:16), (2tim 4:3), (Joh 7:17)
Meaning some do believe in the "Basic" message of the Cross Believe in Jesus....
Jesus Is Lord.
Amen... the Word is Spiritually discerned.... yes... Foolishness to those that perish.
Awesome..(2Cor 4:4)
Now, is there a difference in these cases? , (2Pet 3:16), (2tim 4:3), (Joh 7:17)
Meaning some do believe in the "Basic" message of the Cross Believe in Jesus....
Jesus Is Lord.
SpiritLedEd
Member
Quenton,
That statement you use as your signature ("The side stepper, the warrior without volume" etc.,) - What scripture did you base it on? If it is from God, it has to have a scriptural base.
SLE
That statement you use as your signature ("The side stepper, the warrior without volume" etc.,) - What scripture did you base it on? If it is from God, it has to have a scriptural base.
SLE
it's a persona l prophecy
Brother Mike
Member
would Jesus
Only if they had insurance or Medicaid.......
Mike.
Only if they had insurance or Medicaid.......
Mike.
Obviously not.
You don't need to ask "would He"...because if He "would", well then, He would! We would see Him doing that. He obviously has the power to make that happen. Yet, it doesn't.
So, this is obvious and self-evident. Since Jesus doesn't do this, it also means he wouldn't. No guesswork needed. Why the obvious question that you already know the answer to?
Brother Mike
Member
He would...
Mat 4:24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
Mat 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
With the Holy Ghost!!
S.I.E
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
What is so self evident and obvious is that only those that don't study the Word would think like this, and those that don't know the Holy Spirit would think like this, and those that think Jesus changed would think like this..... That is what is obvious...
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Jesus is Lord
Mat 4:24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
Mat 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
With the Holy Ghost!!
S.I.E
Since Jesus doesn't Do this???????????????????????????????
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
What is so self evident and obvious is that only those that don't study the Word would think like this, and those that don't know the Holy Spirit would think like this, and those that think Jesus changed would think like this..... That is what is obvious...
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Jesus is Lord
I don't think "we" will ever reach said verdict...
Hebrews 13:8 is a fact, yes. Combine that with the fact that Jesus is alive, today, and just as alive and at work today on this Earth as He ever was. I Cor 15:20 "But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead"
So then...why don't we witness everyone in a hospital being healed by Jesus today? Is it because of us? That we (the Church) don't believe the way Brother Mike believes? Would Jesus change, and heal everyone in hospitals, if we would only believe in such a way?
No, God is omniscient and omnipowerful, and His will is done or not done based on Him along, and not us. It is unilateral on his part, not dependent. So then...why don't we witness it happening? (has anyone on this thread ever witnessed Jesus cause everyone in a hospital to be completely healed?) Is Jesus not alive?
He is risen. He is alive. In me, in the world, in the Church, in all of creation. And that is the best news.
So...suffering? Pain? .........
Lazarus suffered "for the glory of God", John 11:2-4 tells us. The Lazarus story caused many Jews to believe in Jesus because of it. (John 11:45) Sometimes God rebukes and chastizes us so that we turn and repent (Rev 3:19 + Heb 12:6-8).
Paul suffered, and didn't make any notions that he believed God would heal him from that suffering. In fact, Paul saw the reason for that suffering, and showed wisdom in dealing with it. II Cor 12:7 "Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. "
In Acts 5:41...why is it that the Apostles rejoiced as they suffered, as they considered it worthy to suffer for their Lord, if your belief-system is that Jesus only wants to heal everyone from such suffering and pain?
How do you, who say "Jesus would", deal with these verses:
II Timothy 3:12 "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
II Timothy 2:12 "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him..."
Luke 9:23 ". . . . If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."
I Peter 2:19-21 "<SUP>19</SUP> For it is commendable if someone bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because they are conscious of God. <SUP id=en-NIV-30420 class=versenum>20</SUP> But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. <SUP id=en-NIV-30421 class=versenum>21</SUP> To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. " (italics, mine)
I Peter 5:10 "And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast" (note: this tells us that we will suffer....and praise the Lord, He will restore us...but it does not say when, and certainly does not indicate that it might be on this Earth)
There is mystery and purpose in suffering and pain. Much we may never know. But do not mistake it as undivine.
I have reached a verdict.