Does God exist inside or outside of TIME

[louis]

The way I see it there are two options:

1. God exists outside of time - He created it.
2. God exists inside of time - Time is a constant for all in existence

Here's more detail and debate on both options:

1. If God exists outside of time, He is able to see the entire continuum, past present and future, as if looking at a road from high enough up with perfect eyesight - you'd be able to see where it originates and where it ends and everything in between, and touch down on any part of it.
2. If God exists inside of time, how could He inspire prophecies? Perhaps an answer to this could be that if you completely control the future, you can predict it.

I personally think God exists outside of time and that He created it. I'm looking for some scriptural backing either way.

Not that it really matters whether He is inside or outside of time. Makes no difference to my relationship with Him. Shouldn't affect yours either.

 

[jbpichu]

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. (2 Peter 3:8)

Human-wise, a day is 24 hours. If God was within time, a day to Him would be 24 hours as well. But this verse shows that a day is like a thousand years to God and thousand years are like a day to Him. While this is used in the context of the Lord's keeping promises, and that He isn't slow, it also shows that His time is different from ours; that He isn't limited by time. If I took this out of context, please then provide scriptural support that would be in the context of God being outside of time. I think this verse explains it pretty well, but I may have taken something out of context

 

[louis]

Scriptural...

Nah, you're 100% within context. In fact, I would expect the 24 hour to 1000 years thing to be quoted.

This verse has also been used, as you probably know, to explain the day-age creationists' point of view.

I've always seen it to point towards a relationship between the "6 days of creation followed by rest" and the "creation happened 6000 years ago" thing (day-day creationism). My conjecture goes something like this:

1. 6000 years (appr) creation took place (within 6 days).
2. we're heading for the 7th millinium of rest, being the 1000 years of satan's captivity (revelations)

The above two points are PURELY CONJECTURE ON MY PART, NOT DOCTRINE and NOT BIBLICALLY BACKED (that I know of...).

That all has no bearing on the main question of this thread but i though it would be an interesting theory to add here...

In response to your post, I agree with you that God does not move within time.

 

[mourning dove]

God, who always was, is, and will be... is not subject to chronological time yet in sending His Son Jesus he allowed himself to be within time as Jesus (who is God) was human like us and thus subject to the limitations of time..at least during His time on earth.

John 1:14a And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, ..." (KJV)

mourning dove :hourglass:

 

[Pedronewt]

I don't think God created time. Just ask yourself, "when did God create time?" What was He doing before then? Time is not a created thing but rather a description of events as they relate to one another. Time doesn't answer where but when. As it relates to God, time is endless duration, because God has existed eternally. Was there ever a time that God did not exist? No. The Trinity has always existed and for communication to happen time must exist for the conveyance of thoughts. I propose that time exists because God exists.

 

[Joebob787]

When did God create time? Day 1
In the Beginning(time), God created the Heavens(space) and the earth(matter)
What was he doing before time? I could make a guess but what God was doing is totally up to him. My guess would be Planning creation but its only my guess.
Time,Space, and Matter exist because the Trinity exists. Paul says visible and Invisible things of God are seen in creation. The universe and what makes it up Scream trinity.
Universe:Time, Space, Matter
Time: Past, Present, Future
Space: Length, Height, Width
Matter: energy in motion producing phenomena—three in one. If there were no energy there could be no motion or phenomena. If there were no motion, there would be no energy or phenomena. If there were no phenomena, it would be because there was no energy or motion.

 

[Pedronewt]

Thank you for your response. I would like to comment on something you said.

When did God create time? Day 1
In the Beginning(time), God created the Heavens(space) and the earth(matter)
What was he doing before time? I could make a guess but what God was doing is totally up to him. My guess would be Planning creation but its only my guess.

Did He spend time planning creation before He "created time?"

Genesis is describing when our existence came into being, or when our time began, not God's.

humbly submitted,
Pedro

 

[louis]

Well...

Sorry guys, I wanted to post a lengthy reply with lots of quotes and conjecture, but I ran out of TIME.

 

[Joebob787]

Did he spend time? God exists outside time because if he existed inside time, That means Time is limiting God. God controls time, and Created time.
In the Begining of our time, Thats what Genesis is about.

 

[ephesians4_23]

I would even go so far as to say that after we are all in heaven, after Christ's return for His bride, that time will end.
Maybe there won't be a specific stopwatch or anything, but it sure won't be necessary anymore, since we will all have our eternal bodies.

 

[louis]

Time as a constant

Some extreme views on this here, but all good.

Umm, this has all probably been said in some form already.

I am thinking that time is a constant thing within the physical world. Nothing can age without time, and the universe is definately ageing.

When Jesus was born, He started ageing, but in His "native" form, He doesn't. God Himself does not age (is was and always will be; same yesterday today tomorrow), and for that matter, neither do the angels or demons (Satan ain't dead yet).

So, I have to summise then that since a spirit doesn't seem to age:
Spiritual beings dont do time, purely because they are unaffected by it - it only affects matter. Surely each spirit, however, has a past, a present and a future? The whole "first he was Lucifer and then he became Satan" thing is proof of this.... I dont know.

Some things we arent meant to understand, simply because we operate with brains that are made up of matter, and is therefore subject to time. The human brain, by it's very molecular nature, is an absolute stranger to these things.

 

[Joebob787]

Eternity is Eternity. No need for any Time devices.(clocks,watchs, etc.)

 

[Truehearts]

definitely out of time..before the creation was God.... before time...

 

[Pedronewt]

OK, so this will be my last reply (to the joy of all, I am sure :wink

Noah Webster defines time like this:

Time - A particular portion or part of duration, whether past, present or future. The time was; the time has been; the time is; the time will be.
- Duration.
- A space or measured portion of duration.

Eternital -Without beginning or end of existence.

Eternity - We speak of eternal duration preceding the present time. God has existed from eternity. We also speak of endless or everlasting duration in future, and dating from present time or the present state of things. Some men doubt the eternity of future punishment, though they have less difficulty in admitting the eternity of future rewards.


Eternity is not outside of time, eternity is time without beginning or end. God is not limited by time because He is eternal. Our earthly bodies are finite but our souls are eternal. When we die, time does not end, we just have an eternal duration of it.

So according to Mr. Webster, since God exists or has duration, time becomes a reality to describe "when." Ergo the statement in my first post, "time exists because God exists."


To answer the secondary question -If God exists inside of time, how could He inspire prophecies?

I believe the answer is in distinguishing the types of prophecies that God uses.

1) Absolute/ Providential – God has determined what He is going to do, and will do it.
Isa 46
Isa 44:28, 45ff – Cyrus
Ezra 1:1-3
Jer. 25:12, 29:10
Messianic prophecies
2) Conditional – Its fulfillment depends upon people meeting certain conditions.
Jer. 18, 26:3
Jonah
Ezek 33,34
Ex. 33:1,2 –Jud 2:20-22
3) Extrapolative Prophecy – God declares what will occur because He knows the controlling philosophy of a nation and how it will develop. Extrapolate – to draw out.
Deut. 31:14-21
Isa. 48:1-11
4) Prophecy by parallelism – These are prophecies that are N.T. applications of an O.T. event.


thank you for letting me participate in the discussion and I look forward to reading your replies.

blessings in Christ to all!

 

[peterclaus]

I do believe that God does exist outside of time.

I also believe that Adam and Eve, before the Fall, also existed outside of time.

 

[louis]

This is becoming an IQ Test

Pedro, your post makes sense. Your second point on the prophecy is in line with what i've always believed, but i would like some further explanation on the last type of prophecy you describe. Please reply once more, your posts are informative.

Peterclaus has tickled my fascination bone with the remark on Adam and Eve. I can see why you say that, and I've never thougth of it that way.

 

[peterclaus]

Hi Louis,

Because Adam walked and talked with God in the Garden of Eden, they must be of the same "time".

After the Fall, God came down to earth as man, only rarely.

For example, with Abraham (Genesis 17), foretelling of the birth of Isaac, when Abraham was ninety-nine years old.

God Bless

 

[hollandgirl_15]

God made His own time. He does things on His time.

 

[Pedronewt]

Hi Louis,
Sorry I haven't responded sooner and thank you for the compliment. First I should have defined "Parallel Prophesy" better.
Prophecy by Parallelism: two things going in the same directions.(like parallel lines). God takes a previous experience or principle and re-applies it to a similar situation in a later period of history

Some examples of parallel prophecy are as follows:

1) Matt 27:46 and Mark 15:34 - when Jesus cries out, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
This is also the first phrase in Psalms 22. David wrote about trials he was going through but it also vividly describes the crucifixion.


2) Or concerning Judas: was he fulfilling scripture? It would seem so at first glance.
Acts1:15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers[c] (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus— 17he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."

18(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)

20"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms,
" 'May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,'[d] and,
" 'May another take his place of leadership.'

But when we read the original context, the text differs slightly
Psalm 69:25 May their place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in their tents.

3)Mat.2:16 – Jer. 31:10-17
4)Mt.13:10-16 – – Is.6:9-10,
5)Mt.15:7–9 – – Is.29:13
A6)cts 13:45-47 – – Is.49:16
7)1Co.9:7-10 – – Deut.25:4

These are all examples of using past events to paint a picture, or draw out, what the present is like.

hope this helps!
Pedro

 

[rizen1]

God made His own time. He does things on His time.

Amen..and what we do with our time is more important.



Revelation 3:3 (NIV) Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.