Faith or works or both?

[Brother-Paul]

His works through us.

Amen my friend, He truly does, to God be the Glory, through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Isnt it amazing how befuddled people are over the word " Works " , when all we ever need to do is as Born Again states , read Phil 2 : 13

What God gives us.

I agree with you comment Bill.

The Lord works through us, by the Power of the Holy Spirit, to His Glory.

Phil 2:13 (NKJV)
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Not sure if you are aware Bill, forgive me if you are. If you type Phil 2:13 the verse can be read by others, if you add spaces Phil 2 : 13 it doesn't show. (Just testing what I put, it works on my laptop not on my mobile?)

As you say, the most important part is that we must be born-again. John 3:3-7 If the Spirit is in us, we will want to do works, we all have different talents. The trouble is, as human beings, there are always the doers and let doers, and the doers then take on to much, getting there priorities wrong with God, not giving themselves the God given time to spend with their creator.

I am aware of your pm time on another subject, God's speed I will rely my friend.

Bless you

 

[Bill]

I agree with you comment Bill.

The Lord works through us, by the Power of the Holy Spirit, to His Glory.

Phil 2:13 (NKJV)
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Not sure if you are aware Bill, forgive me if you are. If you type Phil 2:13 the verse can be read by others, if you add spaces Phil 2 : 13 it doesn't show. (Just testing what I put, it works on my laptop not on my mobile?)

As you say, the most important part is that we must be born-again. John 3:3-7 If the Spirit is in us, we will want to do works, we all have different talents. The trouble is, as human beings, there are always the doers and let doers, and the doers then take on to much, getting there priorities wrong with God, not giving themselves the God given time to spend with their creator.

I am aware of your pm time on another subject, God's speed I will rely my friend.

Bless you

There is nothing to forgive my brother.

To everyone . Isnt God a little off the wall ( i say this light heartedly ) sometimes . Look at all goofy things he sets up with us.

We are His created works , yet God ( Jesus ) gives the " keys " of the kingdom to Peter . " whatever you allow on earth will be allowed in Heaven etc "

God ( Jesus ) asks us to carry the burden given to us, but when it gets too heavy, to give it back. Lol ( this one i learned the hard way )

I know there was a third one , but i cant think of it off hand .

But you see what im saying . God has a good sense of humor

 

[Brother-Paul]

There is nothing to forgive my brother.

To everyone . Isnt God a little off the wall ( i say this light heartedly ) sometimes . Look at all goofy things he sets up with us.

We are His created works , yet God ( Jesus ) gives the " keys " of the kingdom to Peter . " whatever you allow on earth will be allowed in Heaven etc "

God ( Jesus ) asks us to carry the burden given to us, but when it gets too heavy, to give it back. Lol ( this one i learned the hard way )

I know there was a third one , but i cant think of it off hand .

But you see what im saying . God has a good sense of humor

Greetings Bill

I personally would never say, God is off the wall my friend, He is my creator, He is omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, He is all nowing and all powerful, we are to Fear the Lord.

Matthew 16:13-20 (NKJV)
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Verse 18 you are mis-reading, you are sharing the Catholic view.

v18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, (comma)
and on this rock I (Jesus) will build My church, (comma at end, no comma in middle)
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Psalm 18:1-3 (NKJV)
1 I will love You, O LORD, my strength.
2 The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; My God, my strength, in whom I will trust; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised; So shall I be saved from my enemies.

1 Peter 2:7 (NKJV)
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, "The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,"

Psalm 118:22-23 (NKJV)
22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This was the LORD'S doing; It is marvelous in our eyes.

Matthew 21:42 (NKJV)
Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD'S doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'?

Acts 4:10-12 (NKJV)
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.
11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Isaiah 28:16 (NKJV)
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation, A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; Whoever believes will not act hastily.

It is very clear Jesus was referring to himself here.

 

[Bill]

Greetings Bill

I personally would never say, God is off the wall my friend, He is my creator, He is omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, He is all nowing and all powerful, we are to Fear the Lord.

Matthew 16:13-20 (NKJV)
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Verse 18 you are mis-reading, you are sharing the Catholic view.

v18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, (comma)
and on this rock I (Jesus) will build My church, (comma at end, no comma in middle)
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Psalm 18:1-3 (NKJV)
1 I will love You, O LORD, my strength.
2 The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; My God, my strength, in whom I will trust; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised; So shall I be saved from my enemies.

1 Peter 2:7 (NKJV)
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, "The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,"

Psalm 118:22-23 (NKJV)
22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This was the LORD'S doing; It is marvelous in our eyes.

Matthew 21:42 (NKJV)
Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD'S doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'?

Acts 4:10-12 (NKJV)
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.
11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Isaiah 28:16 (NKJV)
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation, A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; Whoever believes will not act hastily.

It is very clear Jesus was referring to himself here.

Why fear what you love. I dont fear God . If i did something to piiss Him off , then yes i would fear Him .

Jesus says to follow Him . Clearly He wasnt fearful of the Father.

In the story of Jonah. You can see how God and Jonah were kibitzing. Jonah clearly didnt " fear " God.

What is even more interesting about Jonah's story. It Is part of Scripture , so the Word , aka Jesus , wants us to see this relationship between God and man

 

[Bill]

Greetings Bill

I personally would never say, God is off the wall my friend, He is my creator, He is omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, He is all nowing and all powerful, we are to Fear the Lord.

Matthew 16:13-20 (NKJV)
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Verse 18 you are mis-reading, you are sharing the Catholic view.

v18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, (comma)
and on this rock I (Jesus) will build My church, (comma at end, no comma in middle)
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Psalm 18:1-3 (NKJV)
1 I will love You, O LORD, my strength.
2 The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; My God, my strength, in whom I will trust; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised; So shall I be saved from my enemies.

1 Peter 2:7 (NKJV)
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, "The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,"

Psalm 118:22-23 (NKJV)
22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This was the LORD'S doing; It is marvelous in our eyes.

Matthew 21:42 (NKJV)
Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD'S doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'?

Acts 4:10-12 (NKJV)
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.
11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Isaiah 28:16 (NKJV)
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation, A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; Whoever believes will not act hastily.

It is very clear Jesus was referring to himself here.

On the C B ( a means of communication between truck drivers ) i was talking about God . And the 4 of us ran into a bad thunderstorm .

I had been talking with them about having a personal relationship with Jesus.

At some point in the storm . I was teasing them and God , saying . You missed me ( lightning strikes all around us ) . Another strike and i said, is that all you got . ( i was laughing ) The other drivers started backing off, i noticed a long gap between us . I asked , whats up guys. They responded with " Just in case " lol

 

[Bill]

Greetings Bill

I personally would never say, God is off the wall my friend, He is my creator, He is omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, He is all nowing and all powerful, we are to Fear the Lord.

Matthew 16:13-20 (NKJV)
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Verse 18 you are mis-reading, you are sharing the Catholic view.

v18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, (comma)
and on this rock I (Jesus) will build My church, (comma at end, no comma in middle)
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Psalm 18:1-3 (NKJV)
1 I will love You, O LORD, my strength.
2 The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; My God, my strength, in whom I will trust; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
3 I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised; So shall I be saved from my enemies.

1 Peter 2:7 (NKJV)
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, "The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone,"

Psalm 118:22-23 (NKJV)
22 The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.
23 This was the LORD'S doing; It is marvelous in our eyes.

Matthew 21:42 (NKJV)
Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD'S doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'?

Acts 4:10-12 (NKJV)
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.
11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Isaiah 28:16 (NKJV)
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation, A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; Whoever believes will not act hastily.

It is very clear Jesus was referring to himself here.

In my wanderings. As a truck dtiver , ive been to many churches.

One thing i have noticed. Many dont know how to talk with God. Just to chat.

Everyone beseaches Him for healings and what not, they Praise Him and so on. And of course that is all great . But they dont know how to just talk with God like talking to a friend

 

[Born Again 2004]

In my wanderings. As a truck dtiver , ive been to many churches.

One thing i have noticed. Many dont know how to talk with God. Just to chat.

Everyone beseaches Him for healings and what not, they Praise Him and so on. And of course that is all great . But they dont know how to just talk with God like talking to a friend

Yes there is nothing to fear, not as in being scared of! Respect, now that's it! How do you not respect absolute perfection? I am not worthy but yet there is no condemnation for me. How simple can it get: " I have a friend in Jesus"....I sang that years ago....I am now 72, maybe I should sing it again! Maybe that was : "What A Friend We Have In Jesus".

 

[Bill]

Yes there is nothing to fear, not as in being scared of! Respect, now that's it! How do you not respect absolute perfection? I am not worthy but yet there is no condemnation for me. How simple can it get: " I have a friend in Jesus"....I sang that years ago....I am now 72, maybe I should sing it again! Maybe that was : "What A Friend We Have In Jesus".

You are plenty worthy. ( im not saying it is ok to get a big head and all that. Lol ) You and I and all of our brothers and sisters , need to see . It is God who says we are worthy. Now if God says it, then why do we think we know more than God.

Simply, if we were not worthy, if God felt at any time we were not worthy, then He would never have sent Jesus to us.

 

[Bill]

Yes there is nothing to fear, not as in being scared of! Respect, now that's it! How do you not respect absolute perfection? I am not worthy but yet there is no condemnation for me. How simple can it get: " I have a friend in Jesus"....I sang that years ago....I am now 72, maybe I should sing it again! Maybe that was : "What A Friend We Have In Jesus".

Sure i respect God. Just like i respect my wife. ( no God is not female . Lol ) but i honestly Love God more than i love my wife . It is really a little hard to explain. As i love my wife deeply. 30 yrs this past May 12.

But it is true . My Love for God is center in my heart

 

[Dave M]

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Psalm 111:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!

 

[Bill]

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Psalm 111:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!

Sorry Brother . I am not afraid of God . My mind isnt wired that way .
I am in God and God is in me. I love God and God loves me.

I worship God and God trusts me.

But i do not fear God.

If i walk in the ways of the Lord, what need have i for fear.

Maybe the fear you speak of is respect, as i have tons of respect for the Lord

 

[Brother-Paul]

Yes there is nothing to fear, not as in being scared of! Respect, now that's it! How do you not respect absolute perfection? I am not worthy but yet there is no condemnation for me. How simple can it get: " I have a friend in Jesus"....I sang that years ago....I am now 72, maybe I should sing it again! Maybe that was : "What A Friend We Have In Jesus".

Sing it again brother, Let us sing His praises. \o/ \o/ \o/

 

[Brother-Paul]

Yes there is nothing to fear, not as in being scared of! Respect, now that's it! How do you not respect absolute perfection? I am not worthy but yet there is no condemnation for me. How simple can it get: " I have a friend in Jesus"....I sang that years ago....I am now 72, maybe I should sing it again! Maybe that was : "What A Friend We Have In Jesus".

Fear God, is so often misunderstood.

To fear God means to stand in awe of Him. He is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient

Psalm 33:8
Let all the earth FEAR the Lord; let all the inhabitants of the world STAND IN AWE OF HIM!

The 'fear' that brings God pleasure is not being afraid of him, as in worldly fear, but having a high and exalted, reverential view of him.

We are wee morsels, we are nothing without Him, but in Him we are more than conquerors.

If anyone should fear God it is the lost souls, not the saved souls.

 

[Brother-Paul]

On the C B ( a means of communication between truck drivers ) i was talking about God . And the 4 of us ran into a bad thunderstorm .

I hope you apologised for running into it brother.

I had been talking with them about having a personal relationship with Jesus.

That's the best bit Bill... your on the home straight now my friend.

At some point in the storm . I was teasing them and God , saying . You missed me ( lightning strikes all around us ) . Another strike and i said, is that all you got . ( i was laughing ) The other drivers started backing off, i noticed a long gap between us . I asked , whats up guys. They responded with " Just in case " lol

Now let me get this clear in my head Bill, there were four of you, plus there was a bright spark. Say no more Bill.

ROFL

 

[Brother-Paul]

In my wanderings. As a truck dtiver , ive been to many churches.

One thing i have noticed. Many dont know how to talk with God. Just to chat.

Everyone beseaches Him for healings and what not, they Praise Him and so on. And of course that is all great . But they dont know how to just talk with God like talking to a friend

May be its the world and time we live in Bill, to many chat facilities online, people loosing the art of conversation. I can understand that with the young ones today, shutting themselves in their rooms playing games and using social networking, I don't use those sites, I prefer social distancing to social networking.

Yes we have a friend in Jesus, we don't need a phone to speak with him, we can come to God anytime without a message 'Sorry I am not able to answer the phone right now, but please don't ring off, leave your name and number and I will get back to you as soon as possible'

In the UK, some years ago, giving my age away again, their was an advert run by BT, British Telecom, its message was clear, 'It's Good to Talk'

It is good to talk with the Lord any time and as many times as we wish, under the breath or out loud, it is wonderful that He know what we are going to say before we say it Bill.

Shalom

 

[Born Again 2004]

You are plenty worthy. ( im not saying it is ok to get a big head and all that. Lol ) You and I and all of our brothers and sisters , need to see . It is God who says we are worthy. Now if God says it, then why do we think we know more than God.

Simply, if we were not worthy, if God felt at any time we were not worthy, then He would never have sent Jesus to us.

Like I said: Romans 8:1

 

[Born Again 2004]

Faith is not produced by us but a gift of God, otherwise we could boast. Our Faith grows through the reading and hearing the word of God!

 

[Dave M]

Our Faith grows through the reading and hearing the word of God!

and doing the word of God

 

[Born Again 2004]

Why does God save sinful humans?

Part of the answer is 'so we can do good works'.

Here's what Paul says in ephesians 2. Note God's purpose stated very clearly in the last line. Paul is much more balanced than many of us who claim to preach Paul.


But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

At the heart of this problem, I believe, is that most of us have an understanding of the gospel that is different to the Bible's teaching.

We commonly think that the essential gospel message is 'Jesus saves'. But the new testament gospel message is 'Jesus is Lord'.

and doing the word of God

As best I can but , in the mean time, I suppose I have to rely on Romans 8:1