For Deep Thinkers

[lentz]

Again, the idea of an immaterial essence of a person inhabiting a physical body comes from Greek Philosophy (Plato). It's not a biblical concept at all.

The Bible word translated "soul" just means a living, breathing creature.

So...what part of you goes into eternity? Your soul maybe?

 

[lentz]

Again, the idea of an immaterial essence of a person inhabiting a physical body comes from Greek Philosophy (Plato). It's not a biblical concept at all.

The Bible word translated "soul" just means a living, breathing creature.

Please explain immaterial essence to me. Thanks

 

[lentz]

@

Greetings @lentz



could you please explain this for me?

Any Scripture would be helpful, too.


Bless you ....><>

Also i would like to point out,while i dont understand Hebrew,Greek,etc.
When it comes to schooling and education,the most fun filled five years of my life was spent in the second grade.

 

[Hekuran]

So...what part of you goes into eternity? Your soul maybe?

That's why the resurrection of the body is so important. 1 Corinthians 15: 1-58 Our bodies are raised from the dead, renewed, glorified and fit to live in perfect harmony with God for ever.

In the Genesis creation account, God made man a living creature from dust and his life-giving breath. We will be the same after the resurrection, yet released from death and decay.

 

[B-A-C]

1Cor 15:44; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Cor 15:45; So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Cor 15:46; However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
1Cor 15:47; The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.
1Cor 15:48; As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.
1Cor 15:49; Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

 

[lentz]

That's why the resurrection of the body is so important. 1 Corinthians 15: 1-58 Our bodies are raised from the dead, renewed, glorified and fit to live in perfect harmony with God for ever.

In the Genesis creation account, God made man a living creature from dust and his life-giving breath. We will be the same after the resurrection, yet released from death and decay.

Sorry. I disagree. But will give it more thought on those lines. Cant jump to quick conclusion.

But....
What will be housed in that body. And where is the person whom is dead,at during death?

 

[Hekuran]

Sorry. I disagree. But will give it more thought on those lines. Cant jump to quick conclusion.

But....
What will be housed in that body. And where is the person whom is dead,at during death?

Yes, right conclusions are better than quick conclusions. Here's a 5 minute explainer video.

What happens between death and resurrection is not very clearly described in the Bible: some believe we "sleep", are completely unconscious until the last day; others that we are with Jesus in spirit, but apart from the body.

 

[lentz]

Yes, right conclusions are better than quick conclusions. Here's a 5 minute explainer video.

What happens between death and resurrection is not very clearly described in the Bible: some believe we "sleep", are completely unconscious until the last day; others that we are with Jesus in spirit, but apart from the body.

I believe i will go along with Paul. Absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord.

But see how you g
Make things confusing? First you say there is no 'immaterial essence". Then there is,but you dont know where it is during death.
You are hard to follow.
Again,what will house new body and where is the person at death if there is no soul seperate from the body?

 

[Hekuran]

I believe i will go along with Paul. Absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord.

But see how you g
Make things confusing? First you say there is no 'immaterial essence". Then there is,but you dont know where it is during death.
You are hard to follow.
Again,what will house new body and where is the person at death if there is no soul seperate from the body?

I think the word Peter or Paul might use would be "Spirit". For example, 1 Peter 3:19 speaks of Jesus preaching to imprisoned spirits.

 

[lentz]

I think the word Peter or Paul might use would be "Spirit". For example, 1 Peter 3:19 speaks of Jesus preaching to imprisoned spirits.

Peter was speaking of Noah preaching before the flood. You have to really look and read that slow in order to see whats being said.
Jesus never preached during those 3 days.

 

[Hekuran]

Peter was speaking of Noah preaching before the flood. You have to really look and read that slow in order to see whats being said.
Jesus never preached during those 3 days.

I hesitated before refering to that verse because there's so much confusion about what it means and is potentially a thread derailer. But it indicates, I think, people's spirits continuing after death and before resurrection.

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive,d he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spiritsl—to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Lol. I dont remember the exact verse. But "niether male nor female"

Dear lentz,
I am glad that Br. Bear made mention of this to you, for I was curious as well, and believed that it might be a mistype of some kind!

What you are referencing but not explaining the why of is found in Galatians 3:28 "There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus."

If you go to Galatians 2:12 you will see the reasoning for what followed: "When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile Christians, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn't eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision."

Sadly, Peter's behavior was different towards believers, depending on whether they were Gentile or Jew, because of the Law. Paul called him on it, and then wanted all believers to know that in Christ Jesus, that treating each other different because of the law for whatever reason was wrong.

It had nothing to do with their being neither male nor female in heaven. To be honest I'd never heard that before!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[lentz]

Dear lentz,
I am glad that Br. Bear made mention of this to you, for I was curious as well, and believed that it might be a mistype of some kind!

What you are referencing but not explaining the why of is found in Galatians 3:28 "There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus."

If you go to Galatians 2:12 you will see the reasoning for what followed: "When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile Christians, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn't eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision."

Sadly, Peter's behavior was different towards believers, depending on whether they were Gentile or Jew, because of the Law. Paul called him on it, and then wanted all believers to know that in Christ Jesus, that treating each other different because of the law for whatever reason was wrong.

It had nothing to do with their being neither male nor female in heaven. To be honest I'd never heard that before!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

I never heard of it before either. Just getting a rise out of poster.
Petty i know

 

[Waggles]

can you please tell me where I can find reference to this in Scripture?


Bless you ....><>

ps... please try a little harder to communicate with others with kindness and less insulting talk.

Hhhmmm that should be addresses to @lentz who is condescending to all here on TalkJesus

Eccles 3:21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?
Job 33:28 He has redeemed my soul from going down into the pit, and my life shall look upon the light.’

soul > H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): -
any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality,
one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it. < Strong Concordance

Psalm 49:14 Like sheep they are appointed for Sheol; death shall be their shepherd, and the upright shall rule over them in the morning. Their form shall be consumed in Sheol, with no place to dwell.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings @Waggles ,

thank you for your feedback. Appreciated.

Hhhmmm that should be addresses to @lentz who is condescending to all here on TalkJesus

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Galatians 6:1


Bless you ....><>

 

[Rhema]

soul is our consciousness or inner being

Hi Waggles.

The term "Hellenistic Jew" exists for a reason.

Within the framework of the Hebrew Bible (and forgive the shorthand)...

YOU = SOUL = Body + Spirit​

The Body returns to the dust, and the Spirit is subsumed back into God from whence the breath came; and there is no you anymore. And yes, this view was applied to animals as well.

Not so within the works of Paul, who did indeed adopt a Greek perspective, but such was quite popular back then since the continuation of what you call "consciousness or inner being" after death became quite a concern for both Jew and Gentile (everybody wants to live forever). To them (and again forgive the shorthand)...

YOU = Soul + Body + Spirit.​

The two different viewpoints exist side by side in the Bible. However, due to continued influence by what can be termed Spiritism or "New Age" most Christians have adopted the following viewpoint (once more, forgive the shorthand)...

YOU = Soul (Physical Body | Spirit body); ​

... whereby the soul (or conscious sentience of a person) inhabits both a physical body and a spirit-body at the same time until the physical body dies.

Not sure if any of that helps, but, ... there it is.

Rhema

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna.​

(Matthew 10:28 KJV~)​

 

[Rhema]

body + spirit = soul.

HA !!!

I should have read further down.

Thanks,
Rhema

but he was also conceived by Mary and Joseph through two particular messianic bloodlines

well that's extremely debatable, but I guess we'll need to put a pin in it.

 

[Rhema]

Animals do not have immortal souls.

Dear Lentz,

Neither do humans...

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna.​

(Matthew 10:28 KJV~)​

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

The body is just an object that houses the soul.
In the op,i only asked could a person,or soul,(however you see it),have been placed in another body(house),if the original parents never gave birth.
Another way to put it....was that soul going to be born,or placed in an earthly body no matter what?

Dear Lentz,

There is no you that existed before you were born. (Lucky you. Rejoice.)

Now are you thinking of the Pre-existing soul as taught by the Mormons? Or the belief of reincarnation as taught by the Hindus?

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

It had nothing to do with their being neither male nor female in heaven. To be honest I'd never heard that before!

Ahem.... here?

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.​

(Matthew 22:29-30 KJV)​

So... is it that there shall be what is tantamount to a free-for-all orgy? Or...

Or does gender not exist? (Hence no women... or men for that matter.)


Rhema
(who skipped the second grade )