Gay Or Homosexual

[B-A-C]

Did Paul himself murder them? Perhaps not, but he does seem to be guilty by association.

Acts 7:57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse.
Acts 7:58 When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
Acts 7:59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"

1Tim 1:13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief;
1Tim 1:14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus.
1Tim 1:15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.

Acts 22:3 "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated under Gamaliel, strictly according to the law of our fathers, being zealous for God just as you all are today.
Acts 22:4 "I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and putting both men and women into prisons,
Acts 22:5 as also the high priest and all the Council of the elders can testify. From them I also received letters to the brethren, and started off for Damascus in order to bring even those who were there to Jerusalem as prisoners to be punished.

 

[MedicBravo]

There are no LGB+ Christians as some say nor can any Christian support them in those sins no matter who they are.

 

[Rhema]

Did Paul himself murder them? Perhaps not, but he does seem to be guilty by association.

There were many at the stoning of Stephen. I am glad that you proved Paul did not lift his own hand with a stone.

Acts 22:4 "I persecuted this Way to the death,

αχρι (UP TO THE POINT) θανατου (OF DEATH - genitive)

I provide a LINK to the Liddell Scott Lexicon forαχρι

II. Prep. with gen., even to, as far as,​

3. of Measure or Degree, ἄχρι τούτου up to this point​

I persecuted this Way up to the point of death by binding both men and women and putting them in prison,​

(Acts 22:4 NRSV)

Paul most certainly put them in prison, but was it for the purpose of killing them? No. But good things don't happen in prison, even to this day. But Paul never murdered anybody.

In peace,
Rhema
Never really thought about the Jews having their own prison system, though. They certainly didn't in Corinth as Gallio would have none of it.

 

[Dave M]

You need to understand that when you teach that all sin is the same, you are teaching a half truth.

interesting I asked for scripture and you say I am teaching I do not understand that?? please show me whear I was teaching. I actually agree with you to a extent.

 

[Twistie]

There will be some gay Christians for after being brow-beat with religious homophobia, cannot shake the feeling, or the belief, that their gayness is sinful. If that guilt cannot be removed, there are writings to consider in their Christian life.

"But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good. So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not. For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise. But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. I find then the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death." (Rom 7:16-25; 8:1-2 ASV) *Don't let anyone try to tell you Paul is using the present tense to speak of himself prior to the new birth!

The Westminster Confession of Faith, 1647, from section on Original Sin -
"This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; and although it be through Christ pardoned and mortified, yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin." This is repeated in the 1689 Baptist Confession and the 2000 Confession of the SBC

From the Puritan Thomas Brooks, in Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices -
"God has nowhere engaged himself by any particular promise, that souls converted and united to Christ shall not fall again and again into the same sin after conversion. I cannot find in the whole book of God where he has promised any such strength or power against this or that particular sin, as that the soul should be forever, in this life, put out of a possibility of falling again and again into the same sins. And where God has not a mouth to speak, I must not have a heart to believe. God will graciously pardon those sins to his people, which he will not in this life totally subdue in his people. I have never seen a promise in Scripture, which says that when our sorrow and grief has been so great, or so much, for this or that sin—that then God will preserve us from ever falling into the same sin. The sight of such a promise would be as life from the dead to many a precious soul, who desires nothing more than to keep close to Christ, and fears nothing more than backsliding from Christ." from page 106

https://www.preachtheword.com/bookstore/remedies.pdf

From the late Dr. Lewis B. Smedes, Fuller Theological Seminary -
"I think that homosexual people are not responsible for their sexual orientation toward loving people of their own gender.
I think that, as a class, homosexual people are as moral, as spiritual, as decent and good, as creative, and as much in need of the grace of God as heterosexual people are.
I think that homosexuality is not the sexual orientation that God intended in creation. It is a genetic lapse. It is nature gone awry. There is tragedy in it. And homosexual people are called to live as morally within their tragedy as the rest of us are called to live within whatever may be ours.
I think that homosexual people merit the same rights and bear the same responsibilities within society that anyone else does.
I think that, if celibacy is not possible, it is better for homosexual people to live together in committed monogamous relationships of love than not. Homosexual partnerships that are committed offer the best moral option available." page 243 of "Sex for Christians" Revised Edition 1994 ... Dr. Smedes (1921-2002) was professor emeritus of theology and ethics at Fuller Theological Seminary, Pasadena, California

A final word, there will be some who seek out a "Christian psychologist", and that could be an unwise move. Such a counselor probably gives lousy psychological instruction and lousy theological advice. Seek out a qualified psychologist or theologian, but do not mix the two in one counselor.

I'll let my posts stand as written, and the readers can judge for themselves if my posts on this topic are sound biblically. I'll not spend time answering the various challenges raised, because from what I see, my posts have already answered them. The hateful and nasty replies are not worth my time to respond, period. My posts are for that family who is devastated spiritually by a family member who is gay, and they need some scholarly input to help them understand. My prayer is that God the Holy Spirit uses the posts for his purposes, giving some comfort for those in need.

It's pride they r filled with Lust of the flesh is what leads them for God is Love and in Him their is NO DARKNESS
Let God be True and you be the liar..

Best get off that fine line you r walking for Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable in this life and the Next..

We have been given free will we can either do as we want n choose or we can follow the Word..

Feelings are not the actions it is the acts one commits that brings sin to it's full circle

ಠ⁠ಗ⁠ಠ

 

[KingJ]

Did Paul himself murder them? Perhaps not, but he does seem to be guilty by association.

Acts 7:57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one impulse.
Acts 7:58 When they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him; and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
Acts 7:59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"

1Tim 1:13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief;
1Tim 1:14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus.
1Tim 1:15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.

Acts 22:3 "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated under Gamaliel, strictly according to the law of our fathers, being zealous for God just as you all are today.
Acts 22:4 "I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and putting both men and women into prisons,
Acts 22:5 as also the high priest and all the Council of the elders can testify. From them I also received letters to the brethren, and started off for Damascus in order to bring even those who were there to Jerusalem as prisoners to be punished.

He is more than guilty by association. He obtained a mandate to arrest Christians with the intent of murdering them. At their trial he approved of the death penalty. Guilty of nothing but being a Christian.

Acts 26:10 And that is just what I did in Jerusalem. On the authority of the chief priests I put many of the Lord’s people in prison, and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them.

There is debate on the historical records of deaths at the time. Some say he is behind the deaths of dozens and others say hundreds.

 

[Twistie]

There are no LGB+ Christians as some say nor can any Christian support them in those sins no matter who they ar

Your post is so silly, it does not deserve a response.

This poor forum, you, @Dylan569 and @Brightfame52 all on one site. Imagine that.

He is more than guilty by association. He obtained a mandate to arrest Christians with the intent of murdering them. At their trial he approved of the death penalty. Guilty of nothing but being a Christian.

Acts 26:10 And that is just what I did in Jerusalem. On the authority of the chief priests I put many of the Lord’s people in prison, and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them.

There is debate on the historical records of deaths at the time. Some say he is behind the deaths of dozens and others say hundreds.

They hate him cause He's proof Jesus was still in charge after death . We are shown it is Jesus that picks His followers not man..

(⁠o⁠´⁠･⁠_⁠･⁠)⁠っ

 

[KingJ]

interesting I asked for scripture and you say I am teaching I do not understand that?? please show me whear I was teaching. I actually agree with you to a extent.

I am glad you 'kind of' agree now. I would think you either agree or disagree, either there are degrees of sin or there are not.

You have previously disagreed.

 

[Rhema]

Acts 26:10 And that is just what I did in Jerusalem. On the authority of the chief priests I put many of the Lord’s people in prison, and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them.

I stand corrected.

 

[KingJ]

They hate him cause He's proof Jesus was still in charge after death . We are shown it is Jesus that picks His followers not man..

(⁠o⁠´⁠･⁠_⁠･⁠)⁠っ

We need to be careful of what we insinuate when stating phrases like 'God picks His followers'.

Paul had true remorse and repented of his sins. God saw his heart and that is why he was picked / God appeared to him on the way to Damascus.

God appearing to someone does not by default turn them into a good person that suddenly changes their lives and makes them serve Him. We see this with Pharoah. He saw a red sea part in two and still pursued to kill the Hebrews.

 

[B-A-C]

We need to be careful of what we insinuate when stating phrases like 'God picks His followers'.

I think what Twistie meant here was, God decides who is saved. Not in the sense that He chose them, but
rather in the sense He knows who chose Him.

Some men, think they can decide who is saved and who isn't. For example someone might make the statement
that there are gay Christians. It would seem they are trying to be God here and decide who is saved.

 

[B-A-C]

John 16:2 "They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.
John 16:3 "These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me.

Acts 26:9 "So then, I thought to myself that I had to do many things hostile to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

The Bible says there are people that will come against us... thinking they are doing God a favor.
Even Paul says he thought fighting against Jesus and Christians was what God wanted him to do.

Since I've been on this forum over the last sixteen years, I have seen a lot of this. They aren't necessarily trying to kill us.
But they are fighting against us, thinking that they are doing what God wants.
I think they truly believe in their hearts that gays are saved.

We've had other debates over the years about people living in fornication, Mormons, and even whether Muslims and
Buddhists are saved. It's hard to imagine Christians thinking some of these things, but I assure you there entire
denominations who believe some of these things and they are willing to argue with you, because they "are doing God's work".
..or, so they believe.

2Thes 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Thes 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Supporting homosexuality can be a dangerous thing.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

I can't help but think this has already happened to some people. Women with women doing "that which is unnatural", and men with men "committing indecent acts". Burning with lust and desire for one another. When people do not repent, and they will not change, it says God
eventually gives them over to "degrading passions" and "a depraved mind". Once God gives your mind over to sin and you start believing the lie, that's a very dangerous place to be.

The Bible says God Himself will send a deluding influence on people who did not believe the truth. ( but took pleasure in wickedness ).

You can get so carried away by your sin, that you don't even know it's sin anymore. You spend a lot of time and effort trying to convince others that it isn't sin.

1Tim 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
1Tim 4:2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
1Tim 4:3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

The conscience is seared over, they no longer feel guilt. The Bible says marriage can only be between and man and a woman, but
some "Christians" insist marriage no longer matters, if you "love" each other.

 

[B-A-C]

Gen 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."

During creation, five times God said "it is good". But finally God says "it is NOT good for..."

Gen 2:20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him.
Gen 2:21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place.
Gen 2:22 The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
Gen 2:23 The man said, "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man."
Gen 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

Out of all the millions of creatures on the earth, the only suitable helper for man, was a woman. God specifically created women
to be man's helper.

Gen 5:2 He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.

Matt 19:4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
Matt 19:5 and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?

1Cor 7:2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE.
Mark 10:7 "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,
Mark 10:8 AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.

Lev 18:22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

 

[Twistie]

We need to be careful of what we insinuate when stating phrases like 'God picks His followers'.

Paul had true remorse and repented of his sins. God saw his heart and that is why he was picked / God appeared to him on the way to Damascus.

God appearing to someone does not by default turn them into a good person that suddenly changes their lives and makes them serve Him. We see this with Pharoah. He saw a red sea part in two and still pursued to kill the Hebrews.

Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. [20] Remember the word

I'll stand on the Word

(⁠づ⁠｡⁠◕⁠‿⁠‿⁠◕⁠｡⁠)⁠づ

 

[Rhema]

There is no condemnation in the entire Bible that condemns a male who is in a same-sex relationship, and the churches should study to see how to give support to these young men. The shallow studies the churches present to condemn all gay relationships, will come back on them one day, maybe on the last day.

From the GARBC Resolution – Ministering to the LGBTQ+ Community

As Regular Baptists, we affirm the following from Scripture:

• Homosexual desire and practice are sin (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, Matthew 5:28).​

https://cdn.garbc.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/06103350/Ministering-to-the-LGBTQ-Community.pdf

I do not expect to see any agreement on this Forum, but it will be of help to a family who is dealing with this complex situation if they happen upon this thread.

How about you deal with the issue inside your own church instead of dumping on the members of this forum?

Rhema