Gender Roles from God

[oldhermit]

Context shows what is being said. It shows what is happening. It gives the entire picture...For example...You and I are sitting in your backyard talking and putting a few uh coffees under our belt. You're telling me about something you just read. "One single explosion! Thirty thousand people dead, the city leveled, and twenty-five ships sunk!" We're talking quietly but the neighbor on the other side of the fence who is busy pruning his roses only heard you say about the explosion. All of a sudden we're surrounded by cops and we're arrested for plotting a terrorist attack. Stupid right? We were talking about My Pelee erupting in 1902.
The neighbor heard one sentence, one verse, and built an entire doctrine on it...and things went to hell.

I understand what context is. What I want, since you claim that we are abusing the context, is for YOU to explain the context of 1 Cor 14 to us. If you think we are not properly representing the context then please explain the context to us.

 

[Hadsa]

Context shows what is being said. It shows what is happening. It gives the entire picture...For example...You and I are sitting in your backyard talking and putting a few uh coffees under our belt. You're telling me about something you just read. "One single explosion! Thirty thousand people dead, the city leveled, and twenty-five ships sunk!" We're talking quietly but the neighbor on the other side of the fence who is busy pruning his roses only heard you say about the explosion. All of a sudden we're surrounded by cops and we're arrested for plotting a terrorist attack. Stupid right? We were talking about My Pelee erupting in 1902.
The neighbor heard one sentence, one verse, and built an entire doctrine on it...and things went to hell.

That made me laugh. Well put and in good humor. God Bless!

 

[Hadsa]

1 Tim 2:9-12

Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

What exactly do you think the context here is?

1 Cor 14 is about rules in the church concerning spiritual gifts.
1 Cor 14:23; Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
1 Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

What exactly is the reason these verses are invalid?

To take authority over a man is exactly the context spoken of but, this is talking about the assembly wherever are gathered the faithful. Those men who desire to be presbyters desire a NOBLE task. Their authority IN CHRIST, (not all men are in Christ) must not be usurped by their wives before their children= the assembly of the home. Nor before a collective gathering of seekers, wherever the presbyter chooses to speak and teach. In Christ God has placed an ANOINTED presbyter as overseer of an assembly. His wife does not have AUTHORITY over him BEFORE the assembly to teach the assembly. Again, this does NOT mean she is NOT allowed between her and her husband to discuss what God has put upon her heart to tell her husband.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.
Let them ask their husbands at home if they desire to learn anything, exactly . For instance , if before the assembly a husband said something that the wife questions, she should question his doctrine at home to him and not before the assembly. A man truly for God's will understands her questioning- if he is wrong or if she just needs more clarification. A woman can help a man to remain humble, but she herself too must be obedient to the Lord. B-A-C what exactly is your concern about women?

Do you attend an assembly lead by a woman, or are you concerned about any assembly lead by a woman? If so, are you saying that men need to stop attending assemblies lead by women? Lastly, based on what you believe concerning these verses and what they say- do you believe ALL SILENCE is what they say or silence at a particular place and time? After all timing is everything. Do these verses speak more on time and place for everything or women must be silent in everything and everywhere? In that case it would mean there is no time for a woman at all to speak, and many biblical stories would be contradicted if you believe (AT NO TIME , IN NO PLACE). I believe the verses are saying there is a time and place for every woman in God. If married then subject to her husband and if he be a presbyter then there is a time and place to talk with him and speak the truth. Lastly if a woman has MORE wisdom than a man it is wise for a man to recognize that. And she then has made fulfilled " Those who do the will of my Father in heaven are MY MOTHER, my sister. Mother meaning in likeness and likened to his mother. It is therefore , okay for a man to be guided as Mary guided Christ in his nurturing stage as by a mother type of Mary . But a full grown man (IN SPIRIT) lets go of the mothers hand at the appropriate time and leads. My sons do that.

So, I believe women who do the WILL of the Father in heaven , are called Mother others sister. This suggests ranking , being a Mother or sister. For it is clear a mother nurtures and a sister is akin to. For a mother guides both brothers and sisters, The one called mother is therefore,the one who nurtures the Christ man within like Mary. A woman called to this kind of discipleship as MOTHER is blessed among women- meaning other women who are in discipleship- those who are called to be akin to the Christ man (inner man)
as sister only. A sister does not teach the brother but is akin to. But a MOTHER teaches both. What do the women in this forum think themselves to be- a mother , or a sister?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Things to Remember.
Old Covenant Laws are invalid to the New Testament Believer.

Even under the OT if you were not a jew you were not invited or a part of this law.

In these first or early church's , those in charge such as Timothy had their hands full.

Trying to teach and put forth order within the church. Old laws had to be removed from some of their thinking and also incorporate order within this new church.

Take into consideration that within the pages of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John not everything in Red or the words of Jesus are words for us to live by.

Jesus was walking as a Prophet and was still under and teaching about God within the old covenant.
He had to for He was a Jew and there was no New Covenant yet.

If we pay attention within these 4 books of the Bible we can find where Jesus talked about or hinted of things to come which is written in the new covenant.

The big problem stems from Christians not understanding the old covenant and incorporating understanding of today's thinking.
It has placed bondage and confusion into the NT Church.

Blessings
Wired

 

[Hadsa]

To take authority over a man is exactly the context spoken of but, this is talking about the assembly wherever are gathered the faithful. Those men who desire to be presbyters desire a NOBLE task. Their authority IN CHRIST, (not all men are in Christ) must not be usurped by their wives before their children= the assembly of the home. Nor before a collective gathering of seekers, wherever the presbyter chooses to speak and teach. In Christ God has placed an ANOINTED presbyter as overseer of an assembly. His wife does not have AUTHORITY over him BEFORE the assembly to teach the assembly. Again, this does NOT mean she is NOT allowed between her and her husband to discuss what God has put upon her heart to tell her husband.
1 Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.
Let them ask their husbands at home if they desire to learn anything, exactly . For instance , if before the assembly a husband said something that the wife questions, she should question his doctrine at home to him and not before the assembly. A man truly for God's will understands her questioning- if he is wrong or if she just needs more clarification. A woman can help a man to remain humble, but she herself too must be obedient to the Lord. B-A-C what exactly is your concern about women?

Do you attend an assembly lead by a woman, or are you concerned about any assembly lead by a woman? If so, are you saying that men need to stop attending assemblies lead by women? Lastly, based on what you believe concerning these verses and what they say- do you believe ALL SILENCE is what they say or silence at a particular place and time? After all timing is everything. Do these verses speak more on time and place for everything or women must be silent in everything and everywhere? In that case it would mean there is no time for a woman at all to speak, and many biblical stories would be contradicted if you believe (AT NO TIME , IN NO PLACE). I believe the verses are saying there is a time and place for every woman in God. If married then subject to her husband and if he be a presbyter then there is a time and place to talk with him and speak the truth. Lastly if a woman has MORE wisdom than a man it is wise for a man to recognize that. And she then has made fulfilled " Those who do the will of my Father in heaven are MY MOTHER, my sister. Mother meaning in likeness and likened to his mother. It is therefore , okay for a man to be guided as Mary guided Christ in his nurturing stage as by a mother type of Mary . But a full grown man (IN SPIRIT) lets go of the mothers hand at the appropriate time and leads. My sons do that.

So, I believe women who do the WILL of the Father in heaven , are called Mother others sister. This suggests ranking , being a Mother or sister. For it is clear a mother nurtures and a sister is akin to. For a mother guides both brothers and sisters, The one called mother is therefore,the one who nurtures the Christ man within like Mary. A woman called to this kind of discipleship as MOTHER is blessed among women- meaning other women who are in discipleship- those who are called to be akin to the Christ man (inner man)
as sister only. A sister does not teach the brother but is akin to. But a MOTHER teaches both. What do the women in this forum think themselves to be- a mother , or a sister?

Matthew 12:49-50
…49Pointing to His disciples, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers. 50For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”
Did you notice in this verse Christ does NOT say- ARE MY FATHER? Also , He is speaking to HIS DISCIPLES, a disciple is NOT an apostle. A disciple is a perpetual student an apostle is whose names are written in the foundation, and is a teacher sent out to make disciples of all nations, NOT MAKE OTHER APOSTLES.

Those of the foundation=those who are written in the NT as matriarchs and patriarchs of the NC. The disciples are all who are witnesses to what is OF the foundation. NO ONE comes before the NC patriarchs and matriarchs , they are an example to us- we are then conformed in Christ- as like in image of . Hence are my mother ,sister, brother. NEVER FATHER. Therefore I am correct to say that HIS MOTHER(MATRIARCH) of the NC, is the image that all called to be a mother in the assembly are fashioned after. And sister would be like Elisabeth in as being akin to, brother therefore means LIKE as the apostles. But none of us EVER usurps the foundation! And all in the foundation are of the image of Christ= what His image is for His people, what they should be like in Him. In accepting your image in Him is to be like Him(Christ) concerning His obedience to the Father, and all who do the will of His FATHER IN HEAVEN are his mother=in likeness, His sister= Elisabeth in likeness, His brother= the apostles in likeness.Think about this? And remember NO ONE IS CALLED FATHER. God Bless!

 

[Bendito]

I understand what context is. What I want, since you claim that we are abusing the context, is for YOU to explain the context of 1 Cor 14 to us. If you think we are not properly representing the context then please explain the context to us.

I already did that...read post 16

 

[Bendito]

My friend, context! In this case, as with many other places in the bible, the context is not two verses before and Marne one after. Back up. Chapter 1. Paul comes to Corinth Nondenominational Church. He addresses a few problems. Whom do we follow. They were divided over that. Sexual sin among them I dealt with. Then the taking of the brethren to secular courts. Don't do that! Chapter 7. Oh wow! you guys do have a lot of questions, don't you? Paul starts answering questions. Husband wife relationship. Single peoples problems with uh. Lbido. Eating of food sacrificed. And so on. He looks at the questions. Some he answers directly and others he repeats the question then answers. So look at the question here he is... Speaking about tongues, and I believe the question caught his eye and he reacted to it. "women need to shut up in church. Just like the Torah says". Guess what my friend. That was not Paul speaking there. He simply read the question. Paul was a very learned man. He KNEW the Torah and he would never have said that the Torah said women should keep quiet. Why? Simply. The Torah says no sub thing! Then Paul answers the man vs 36. Then he returns to his previous topic to finish it. So you see Paul does not forbid women to preach, teach, or anything else. Back to the other verse quoted on this this thread. There is neither male nor female... All are equal

Wow! That's the last time I use my phone to type a post!

 

[oldhermit]

I already did that...read post 16

No, you didn't. I read the post and you offered no explanation of the context. Not only that, but you completely misrepresented what Paul said. Paul never said that the Law command the women to be silent. What he said was that they were to be in submission just as the Law also said. If you are having trouble with the context of the chapter I would be happy to help you with it if you are not too proud to accept the help.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Let's look at some scriptures i

No, you didn't. I read the post and you offered no explanation of the context. Not only that, but you completely misrepresented what Paul said. Paul never said that the Law command the women to be silent. What he said was that they were to be in submission just as the Law also said. If you are having trouble with the context of the chapter I would be happy to help you with it if you are not too proud to accept the help.

Greetings
If you really are wanting to help others then it would be wise to lose the insults which only produces offensive words.
Once you offend someone, you are done ministering unto them.
Blessings
Wired

 

[Fragrant Grace]

So, I believe women who do the WILL of the Father in heaven , are called Mother others sister. This suggests ranking , being a Mother or sister. For it is clear a mother nurtures and a sister is akin to. For a mother guides both brothers and sisters, The one called mother is therefore,the one who nurtures the Christ man within like Mary. A woman called to this kind of discipleship as MOTHER is blessed among women- meaning other women who are in discipleship- those who are called to be akin to the Christ man (inner man)
as sister only. A sister does not teach the brother but is akin to. But a MOTHER teaches both. What do the women in this forum think themselves to be- a mother , or a sister?

@Hadsa

Please can you provide scripture to back up what you are saying here.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

There is so much contention between the brethren concerning 1corinthians11.

I want to bring to Light 2 areas at this time.

First let's look at v11:16
But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Even within this thread believers are in contention over shaved heads and covered heads and woman submitted unto men and who can talk or teach....

First clue.....there is No teaching, Rule or Law in the New Testament Church. These things stem from CUSTOMS found there in Corinth.

OK to start with let's look at something.....

The temple of Aphrodite, the goddess of love was there in Corinth.
Within there customs they had temple prostitutes.
So how does a man know for sure who is or is not?

So these temple prostitutes SHAVED THEIR HEADS.
Now a shaved head woman does not look that good. So they had to adorn these woman with paint and trim. Lol seductive makeup and clothing.

Now as we see in the books of Acts, Paul shook up that area with his teaching of Jesus Christ.
Now some of these temple prostitutes were being saved. So now they are a new creature in Christ. But if they show up at church, everyone will see a TEMPLE PROSTITUTE. So something had to be done.

A new custom is born. Woman shall cover their heads . This way no one could tell who once was a temple prostitute which also kept these woman hid until their hair grew out.

Next I will shed truth on this other old covenant custom contention of woman being silent and under man.

Know your Covenant and Enjoy Your Salvation.
Blessings in Christ
Wired

 

[Hadsa]

@Hadsa

Please can you provide scripture to back up what you are saying here.

I did. I have a question for you, can you usurp the foundation?
Matthew 12:49-50
…49Pointing to His disciples, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers. 50For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”

 

[Hadsa]

@Hadsa

Please can you provide scripture to back up what you are saying here.

Matthew 12:49-50
…49Pointing to His disciples, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers. 50For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”
Did you notice in this verse Christ does NOT say- ARE MY FATHER? Also , He is speaking to HIS DISCIPLES, a disciple is NOT an apostle. A disciple is a perpetual student an apostle is whose names are written in the foundation, and is a teacher sent out to make disciples of all nations, NOT MAKE OTHER APOSTLES.

Those of the foundation=those who are written in the NT as matriarchs and patriarchs of the NC. The disciples are all who are witnesses to what is OF the foundation. NO ONE comes before the NC patriarchs and matriarchs , they are an example to us- we are then conformed in Christ- as like in image of . Hence are my mother ,sister, brother. NEVER FATHER. Therefore I am correct to say that HIS MOTHER(MATRIARCH) of the NC, is the image that all called to be a mother in the assembly are fashioned after. And sister would be like Elisabeth in as being akin to, brother therefore means LIKE as the apostles. But none of us EVER usurps the foundation! And all in the foundation are of the image of Christ= what His image is for His people, what they should be like in Him. In accepting your image in Him is to be like Him(Christ) concerning His obedience to the Father, and all who do the will of His FATHER IN HEAVEN are his mother=in likeness, His sister= Elisabeth in likeness, His brother= the apostles in likeness.Think about this? And remember NO ONE IS CALLED FATHER. God Bless!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Add on to my post #31
All this fuss over makeup and jewelry and pants and tattoo etc is all OT customs.

Woman...if you feel better with make up then please do.

Men if you like rings, watches, necklaces and so forth then enjoy.

Woman if you have a dress on or slacks it makes no difference pertaining unto your salvation.

There are no such rules within this New Covenant we are to live under.

Know Your Covenant
Enjoy your Salvation
Blessings in Christ
Wired

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Matthew 12:49-50
…49Pointing to His disciples, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers. 50For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.”
Did you notice in this verse Christ does NOT say- ARE MY FATHER? Also , He is speaking to HIS DISCIPLES, a disciple is NOT an apostle. A disciple is a perpetual student an apostle is whose names are written in the foundation, and is a teacher sent out to make disciples of all nations, NOT MAKE OTHER APOSTLES.

Left out of this is v46 and 47
While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Jesus was simply answering their question.
We must be careful to not read into scripture but to read out of.
Disciples or Discipline
One who is under a teacher or student learning.

Apostle is one who is sent.

Know your Covenant
Enjoy your Salvation
Blessings in Christ
Wired

 

[Hadsa]

Left out of this is v46 and 47
While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Jesus was simply answering their question.
We must be careful to not read into scripture but to read out of.
Disciples or Discipline
One who is under a teacher or student learning.

Apostle is one who is sent.

Know your Covenant
Enjoy your Salvation
Blessings in Christ
Wired

That is RIGHT ONE WHO IS SENT and what were the apostles sent to do? TEACH. Do you teach them? And all you know concerning Christ is by whom?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

That is RIGHT ONE WHO IS SENT and what were the apostles sent to do? TEACH. Do you teach them? And all you know concerning Christ is by whom?

Greetings,
Not sure what you are driving at here but all I know concerning Christ is ultimately by the Holy Spirit.

Blessings

 

[Curtis]

Luke 6:40 No pupils are greater than their teacher; but all pupils, when they have completed their training, will be like their teacher. (GNB)

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Luke 6:40 No pupils are greater than their teacher; but all pupils, when they have completed their training, will be like their teacher. (GNB)

Watch out for Psalm 119
God can and does teach His people in which do become wiser then their instructer, other wise no one could grow in knowledge of God's Word beyond what some already know.

 

[Hadsa]

Greetings,
Not sure what you are driving at here but all I know concerning Christ is ultimately by the Holy Spirit.

Blessings

Really????Did you know something concerning Christ before them? And are you saying they spoke outside of this-THE HOLY SPIRIT? And are you saying you do not need them THE APOSTLES and all of the foundation, to know something about Christ?