Getting Saved vs Staying Saved

[Hekuran]

I not only have scriptures but the entire Bible to support my claims. But what good do they do, you just would qoute your own and fasely use them to support your narrative. God is more powerful than you allow and doesn't need any of your "filthy rags"!

That's the kind of talk that bullies use. I hope you are not in any kind of leadership position or holding authority over others in the church.

 

[B-A-C]

I not only have scriptures but the entire Bible to support my claims. But what good do they do, you just would qoute your own and fasely use them to support your narrative. God is more powerful than you allow and doesn't need any of your "filthy rags"!

Isa 64:5; You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness, Who remembers You in Your ways. Behold, You were angry, for we sinned, We continued in them a long time; And shall we be saved?
Isa 64:6; For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
Isa 64:7; There is no one who calls on Your name, Who arouses himself to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us And have delivered us into the power of our iniquities.

[KJV]
Isa 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isa 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

This verse is for those continue in sin for a long time, and have become unclean. Those who refuse to call on Jesus.

But in the new testament, our good works and righteous deeds are rewarded.

1Cor 3:10; According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
1Cor 3:11; For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Cor 3:12; Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
1Cor 3:13; each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
1Cor 3:14; If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.

2Cor 5:10; For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Heb 11:32; And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets,
Heb 11:33; who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34; quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight.
Heb 11:35; Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;

 

[Born Again 2004]

That's the kind of talk that bullies use. I hope you are not in any kind of leadership position or holding authority over others in the church.

"Sticks and Stones"...all I'm trying to do is help but you just resort to name calling. I am very sorry to witness this!
The scriptures you qoute, again don't mean what you say...like the burning up of works.....that's Man's works not God's, do you credit the Holy Sprit's work in you or your works instead?

 

[Hekuran]

I haven't called you any names, I haven't quoted any scripture in this thread.

The way you are speaking to others is unChristlike. Please do better.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I haven't called you any names, I haven't quoted any scripture in this thread.

The way you are speaking to others is unChristlike. Please do better.

So calling one a Bully is Christ-like and not a name? AND you agree that works of Man is more important than that of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Hekuran]

I've said what needed to be said. I'm not responding to counter accusations.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I've said what needed to be said. I'm not responding to counter accusations.

Needed to BE said, by who's standards? Certainly seems that you can dish out YOUR share of accusations!

 

[Downunder]

Luke 8:14 And what fell among the thorns, these are they that have heard, and while going on are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no perfect fruit.
8:15 And that in the good ground, these are such as in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, hold it fast, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Hebrews 6:11 And we desire that each of you show the same diligence unto the fulness of the hope even to the end:
6:12 that ye be not sluggish, but imitators of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
[works called for here > faithfulness and endurance required from us] here patience is G3115 > forbearance or fortitude

 

[Downunder]

Hebrews 10: ESV
34 For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one.
10:35 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
10:36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
10:37 For, “Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay;
10:38 but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.”
10:39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

 

[B-A-C]

1Tim 4:16; Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.

Php 2:12; So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

1Pet 4:17; For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1Pet 4:18; AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?

1Pet 1:6; In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
1Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pet 1:8; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
1Pet 1:9; obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

 

[Downunder]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
10:27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
10:28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
10:29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
10:30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Waggles]

Jeremiah 17:3 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed; they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

John 7:37 Now on the last, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any thirst, let him come unto me and drink.
7:38 Who believeth unto me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 8:6 And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.
8:7 But when they continued asking him, he lifted himself up, and said to them, Who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

 

[Downunder]

And in every epistle there are gems that sparkle in order to attract our attention; for us to take note of -
this is written to Pentecostal Spirit-filled Christians in the body of Christ:
Galatians 6:
1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Look to yourself, lest you too be tempted.
8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.

 

[Free gift]

Threads like this inevitably lead to OSAS, Calvinism, Armenianism and other unpleasant things.
But it seems like every thread out there has something about works.

You don't have to do much to get saved.
John 3:16; and Eph 2:8-9; are examples of how to get saved.
You can't earn it, you can't work for it. All you can do is accept it. It is up to you to choose to follow Jesus.

But once you are saved, now there are things you have to do.
Most of the New Testament is full of these things you can't do, and things you are expected to do.
You have to work to stay saved. Yes, that flies in the face of OSAS, but it's what the Bible says.

The parable of the talents is a good example of this.

Matt 25:24; "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25; 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27; 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28; 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29; "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There were three servants, two invested their talents and increased the kingdom of God. One did nothing, he hid his talent in the ground.
His talents were taken away from him and he was thrown out. He is called wicked and lazy.

We also have the sheep and the goats.

Matt 25:41; "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Matt 25:42; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
Matt 25:43; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Matt 25:44; "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The sheep fed, clothed, and visited people. The goats didn't. The sheep go to eternal life, the goats go to eternal punishment.

Eph 2:8-9; say we aren't saved by works and so we aren't.

James 2:14-26; say our faith alone can't keep us saved. We better have some works to go along with the faith.
In fact James says faith alone can't save us. ( James 2:24; )

Faith alone doesn't keep people saved... even the demons believe.

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Not everyone who says Jesus is their Lord will make it to heaven. If you're practicing lawlessness (sin) Jesus won't let you in.
Now obeying the commandments isn't really a work per se, but it is something you have to do.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

It doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus or not... good deeds = resurrection of life. Evil deeds = resurrection of judgment.

There are dozens of verses like this. You better do this.. or else.
You better not do that.. or else.

Luke 13:25; "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.'
Luke 13:26; "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets';
Luke 13:27; and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'

You know the Bible, you listened to the words of Jesus? That's great... listening doesn't get you anything.

Rom 2:13; for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Jas 1:22; But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

I know there are churches that preach against this. I've even attended some of them. But the Bible doesn't teach "faith alone". There is no verse in the Bible where "grace" and "alone are in he same verse.
The only verse that has the words "faith" and "alone" both together in the same verse is James 2:24; and it says "not by faith alone".
You claim to be a tree in the masters garden?

Luke 13:7; "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8; "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

You better be bearing some fruit. Even with Jesus watering, fertilizing, and aerating the soil, some trees refuse to bear fruit.

People need to quit confusing what you need to do to "get saved" with what you need to do to "stay saved".

Contrary to what some churches preach, Salvation isn't a "once and done" thing. It's a daily walk, it's a journey. It's trials and testings, it's taking up your cross and dying to self daily.
It's holding on to the love of Christ.

Rev 2:4; 'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.

Oh but I love Jesus... do you? Really?

John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

But the thief on the cross didn't do any works. He didn't sin after he received Jesus either, can you say that?
On top of that Jesus hadn't ascended to heaven until sometime after He was resurrected. ( John 20:17; )
The thief was under the old covenant.

Today once a believer receives Jesus John 1.12 he is SEALED unto the day of redemption. Eph 1.13 . Eph 4.30 . This has to be factor in to your equation . This is clear .

 

[Downunder]

Today once a believer receives Jesus John 1.12 he is SEALED unto the day of redemption. Eph 1.13 . Eph 4.30 . This has to be factor in to your equation . This is clear .

NO not at all
Ephesians 1:13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1:14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
Sealed: G4972 sphragizō From G4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: -
Down payment or earnest: G728 ἀῤῥαβών arrhabōn
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest, down payment [deposit to secure redemption of goods later]

 

[Free gift]

NO not at all
Ephesians 1:13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1:14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
Sealed: G4972 sphragizō From G4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: -
Down payment or earnest: G728 ἀῤῥαβών arrhabōn
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest, down payment [deposit to secure redemption of goods later]

let's not reduce God the Holy Spirit down to analogies that have an earthly temporal notion. This is the Holy Spirit SEALING us with himself ..He is the guarantee, indwelling us ..Predestined by God to the Adoption rom 8.23 .

 

[Downunder]

let's not reduce God the Holy Spirit down to analogies that have an earthly temporal notion. This is the Holy Spirit SEALING us with himself ..He is the guarantee, indwelling us ..Predestined by God to the Adoption rom 8.23 .

let us not invent doctrine in opposition to the truth of God's word and what this teaches us. You are adding to scripture what is not written.

 

[Born Again 2004]

NO not at all
Ephesians 1:13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1:14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
Sealed: G4972 sphragizō From G4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: -
Down payment or earnest: G728 ἀῤῥαβών arrhabōn
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge, that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest, down payment [deposit to secure redemption of goods later]

I think it is safe to say that All the translations have been done already and the basic gospel has not changed from the " original " text.
No matter where you reference it from, the Gospel is the Gospel as coroborated by the Holy Spirit!
God chooses to save and He saves!

 

[JerryfromMass]

Threads like this inevitably lead to OSAS, Calvinism, Armenianism and other unpleasant things.
But it seems like every thread out there has something about works.

You don't have to do much to get saved.
John 3:16; and Eph 2:8-9; are examples of how to get saved.
You can't earn it, you can't work for it. All you can do is accept it. It is up to you to choose to follow Jesus.

But once you are saved, now there are things you have to do.
Most of the New Testament is full of these things you can't do, and things you are expected to do.
You have to work to stay saved. Yes, that flies in the face of OSAS, but it's what the Bible says.

The parable of the talents is a good example of this.

Matt 25:24; "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25; 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27; 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28; 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29; "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

There were three servants, two invested their talents and increased the kingdom of God. One did nothing, he hid his talent in the ground.
His talents were taken away from him and he was thrown out. He is called wicked and lazy.

We also have the sheep and the goats.

Matt 25:41; "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Matt 25:42; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
Matt 25:43; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Matt 25:44; "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The sheep fed, clothed, and visited people. The goats didn't. The sheep go to eternal life, the goats go to eternal punishment.

Eph 2:8-9; say we aren't saved by works and so we aren't.

James 2:14-26; say our faith alone can't keep us saved. We better have some works to go along with the faith.
In fact James says faith alone can't save us. ( James 2:24; )

Faith alone doesn't keep people saved... even the demons believe.

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Not everyone who says Jesus is their Lord will make it to heaven. If you're practicing lawlessness (sin) Jesus won't let you in.
Now obeying the commandments isn't really a work per se, but it is something you have to do.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

It doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus or not... good deeds = resurrection of life. Evil deeds = resurrection of judgment.

There are dozens of verses like this. You better do this.. or else.
You better not do that.. or else.

Luke 13:25; "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.'
Luke 13:26; "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets';
Luke 13:27; and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'

You know the Bible, you listened to the words of Jesus? That's great... listening doesn't get you anything.

Rom 2:13; for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Jas 1:22; But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

I know there are churches that preach against this. I've even attended some of them. But the Bible doesn't teach "faith alone". There is no verse in the Bible where "grace" and "alone are in he same verse.
The only verse that has the words "faith" and "alone" both together in the same verse is James 2:24; and it says "not by faith alone".
You claim to be a tree in the masters garden?

Luke 13:7; "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8; "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

You better be bearing some fruit. Even with Jesus watering, fertilizing, and aerating the soil, some trees refuse to bear fruit.

People need to quit confusing what you need to do to "get saved" with what you need to do to "stay saved".

Contrary to what some churches preach, Salvation isn't a "once and done" thing. It's a daily walk, it's a journey. It's trials and testings, it's taking up your cross and dying to self daily.
It's holding on to the love of Christ.

Rev 2:4; 'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.

Oh but I love Jesus... do you? Really?

John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

But the thief on the cross didn't do any works. He didn't sin after he received Jesus either, can you say that?
On top of that Jesus hadn't ascended to heaven until sometime after He was resurrected. ( John 20:17; )
The thief was under the old covenant.

All that you've written points precisely to the falling short of every believer, which is exactly why we are to pray continually, repent and confess daily our shortcomings, and thank the Lord our God for HIS abundant grace and mercy for saving a sinner like ... me, you, and all others that have put their faith, trust, and rest in the Lord Jesus for salvation.

We are not saved by our good works, but when we are saved we, as light and salt to a blind lost and hurting world, will do good for the glory of God. Amen.