God Creating Hardships

[Bill]

This is a continuation of a back and forth type conversation, and i invite everyone else. Please join.

I believe my opponents view is God isnt causing situations for His own Glory.

I used the scripture of Jesus curing a blind man. Jesus was asked whose sin caused him to be blind, And Jesus responded by saying, no ones sin caused his blindness. It is for the Glory of God.

I do understand, i think, that my opponents is stating that God isnt an egotist. And i agree with that.

But i believe what is perfect to Gods eyes is not what we deem perfect in our own.

My example is a person born handicap. If everyone in the world was always perfect at birth, we would have limited compassion for those who are handicap.

A person born this way, experiences hardships. A type i will never have to endure. It can be said. God created this person for us to learn love.

 

[Dave M]

In the OT it is very clear that God punishes the Israelite for disobedience. And rewards them for obedience.

 

[B-A-C]

I'm not sure I understand the question here.

It's possible that some people have bad things happen to them because of sin.
But in the case of Job, bad things happen even to people who don't sin.

In the case of the blind man ( John 9:1-3; ) it seems God knew in advance that Jesus would pass this way.
It's also possible God doesn't heal us because of sin in our life. ( Psa 32:3; James 5:16; )

But are you saying there are some people God doesn't want to heal at all..... just so we can learn something from them?
Is it God's desire that some people never be healed?

Is this the question?

 

[Bill]

I'm not sure I understand the question here.

It's possible that some people have bad things happen to them because of sin.
But in the case of Job, bad things happen even to people who don't sin.

In the case of the blind man ( John 9:1-3; ) it seems God knew in advance that Jesus would pass this way.
It's also possible God doesn't heal us because of sin in our life. ( Psa 32:3; James 5:16; )

But are you saying there are some people God doesn't want to heal at all..... just so we can learn something from them?
Is it God's desire that some people never be healed?

Is this the question?

I believe there are some people who are born imperfect in our mind, they are already perfect as God created them.

A person born with one leg, simeas twins, and so on.

These are created for the rest of us. To learn compassion for, and for those who are inspired to make artifical limbs, and all the other things that come about from these who God has chosen.

 

[Hekuran]

I believe there are some people who are born imperfect in our mind, they are already perfect as God created them.

A person born with one leg, simeas twins, and so on.

These are created for the rest of us. To learn compassion for, and for those who are inspired to make artifical limbs, and all the other things that come about from these who God has chosen.

My body is healthy and functions as it should.

But if I were born with disability, limited physical movement, entirely dependent on others, and in constant pain, I would feel aggrieved at the idea that all this was so that others could learn how to be compassionate.

 

[HisFollower]

"Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, (2 Timothy 1:18-19)

 

[Bill]

My body is healthy and functions as it should.

But if I were born with disability, limited physical movement, entirely dependent on others, and in constant pain, I would feel aggrieved at the idea that all this was so that others could learn how to be compassionate.

You are only thinking that perfection is what you have now.

I have worked with many handicap people over the years. Many dont see themselves as hadicapped, just different. I dated a girl that was deaf, she really opened my eyes to her world.

 

[Bill]

"Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, (2 Timothy 1:18-19)

Thank you.

His own purpose and grace. Amen bro.

 

[Dave M]

I was born with a club foot and my birth parents did not want me for what ever reason, I thank God the way it all worked out. My parents who adopted me knowing the I was crippled took on the responsibility of taking me to the doctor every week and having a cast put on foot to turn it around. There dedication and love was why I walk normal today. The worst things in my life always end up being the best things possible. Like hitting rock bottom with drugs was the main reason I found the Lord. I do believe he uses hardships to help us although we do not see at the time it turns out to be a blessing when we look back IMO


James 1:2-4
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Psalm 115:3
Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

 

[Bill]

I was born with a club foot and my birth parents did not want me for what ever reason, I thank God the way it all worked out. My parents who adopted me knowing the I was crippled took on the responsibility of taking me to the doctor every week and having a cast put on foot to turn it around. There dedication and love was why I walk normal today. The worst things in my life always end up being the best things possible. Like hitting rock bottom with drugs was the main reason I found the Lord. I do believe he uses hardships to help us although we do not see at the time it turns out to be a blessing when we look back IMO


James 1:2-4
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Psalm 115:3
Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

I hate to sound rash. But your birth parents didnt love you for you. (Gods gift). They wanted only what was perfect in thier minds.

Your adopted parents gave love, from thier hearts. Christ within. And God brought you home as you are now.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

"Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, (2 Timothy 1:18-19)

To use these scriptures to go with this thread is out of context.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

And it does not please Him when any of His Children are afflicted.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

James 1:2-4
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

This is How we are to handle things. This does not say God gives them to you.

Jesus told us in this world we will have persecution which is again not from God.
Persecution is also trials and such. It comes from the curse and all the evil in this world.

Also....not directed to this Quote..BUT to the thread itself.
I can't believe a thread such as this would even be posted by a rooted and grounded Christian.

Blessings

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

My example is a person born handicap. If everyone in the world was always perfect at birth, we would have limited compassion for those who are handicap.

You can not be serious here.
Its like a trick question.

Its like saying if we were all healthy we would not have compassion for the sick.

Or if we all were bald we would have no compassion for the barber.

This is right up there with unconditional ways to be born again.

 

[Dave M]

Jim are you saying God does not or has not ever punished people for disobedient ??

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Jim are you saying God does not or has not ever punished people for disobedient ??

Hi Dave,
Actually Neither!
The O.P is claiming God causes these things so His Glory can be seen.

We are in a season of Grace.
This will end and we can see this in the Revelation of Jesus.

If God were punishing people for disobedience , then all the evil people would be taken out, but His Grace is Holding Him back for now.

When His People get involved according to How He has stated in His Word, then He can and will get involved.

Now with that said - there is always Consequences for Disobedience for the Believer.

We miss out on God.
We put ourselves in an unprotected AREA.
It gives satan legal right into your life that he should not have had.
It hinders and stops God's power from working and our prayers from producing.

For the believer, thank God for Grace and 1John1:9. Just as fast as we repent we are forgiven and can get back on track.

Under this new covenant with God, He has made Himself accountable to His Word and Will NOT go against it.

Look at Psalm 115:16
The heavens belong to the LORD, but he has given the earth to all humanity.

Adam gave it away and Jesus Got it back for us.

The church is responsible to remove, overcome and take authority over things but has failed in doing so.

The government does more then the church and that's a slap in Jesus face.

No Sir this thread is so far off its scary thinking a rooted in Christ believer would even think such a thing.

No Sir, it's not God but this evil in this world from the curse FROM DISOBEDIENCE in the first place.

Ask your self this. Who benefits to these type of statements?

God makes people sick.
God uses bad to teach you.
It's a sin to be a wealthy Christian.
Those who teach we can rise above poverty and so called middle class are false teachers.

Now think
What does satan use to attract people.
Wealth
Success
Power
Fun

So painting God to be an unpredictability God who uses sickness and tragedies and so forth to show He is God is yet another avenue satan uses. Sad thing is he has more Christians helping him then you might believe.

Church fights over doctrine and Christians putting down on one another- ask your self this ..... would you want to give up your life doing as you please for that? Hardly.

No my Brother, God is not behind this junk.
Blessings to you

 

[Bendito]

I'm not sure I understand the question here.

It's possible that some people have bad things happen to them because of sin.
But in the case of Job, bad things happen even to people who don't sin.

In the case of the blind man ( John 9:1-3; ) it seems God knew in advance that Jesus would pass this way.
It's also possible God doesn't heal us because of sin in our life. ( Psa 32:3; James 5:16; )

But are you saying there are some people God doesn't want to heal at all..... just so we can learn something

Hmmm....Job..."That which I greatly feared has come upon me." Was Job walking in faith? No....Romans 14:23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Romans 14:23 So then...Job was walking in sin, and his attack was a result.

The curse of sin is brought on by sin...and the ugly thing is...Its not always our sin that causes it...Many curses are generational. For example...My ancestors were into witchcraft, which has a generational curse. I could get hit by that curse, through no fault of my own...The curse could also cause decendents of the original witch to be drawn into witchcraft and thus perpetuate the curse. So here's my walking in perfect faith, never sinning in any way, and bang! I get hit by some strange and deadly disease. See what I mean? The blind man may not have sinned to be born blind, his parents may not have but somewhere along the line, someone probably did. Now God uses it to His glory...The man ges his sight and everybody wins.

 

[B-A-C]

Job 1:1; There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.

Job 1:8; The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

Job 2:3; The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause.”

 

[Bendito]

Job 1:1; There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.

Job 1:8; The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

Job 2:3; The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause.”

Job 1:1 Perfect is the problem...We read it as he did not sin but the word means; tâm, tawm; from H8552; complete; usually (morally) pious; specifically, gentle, dear:—coupled together, perfect, plain, undefiled, upright
That does not say that he did not sin... He walked, seeking to Lord, to please the Lord. Like all of us though he slipped once in a while.

 

[Dave M]

John 9:1-41
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”