Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

He Who Lets

Back to the topic..

What is taken out so that lawlessness is unrestrained?

It seems you believe that it can not be The Holy Spirit because some folks are saved during the tribulation.

So what are your thoughts on what is taken out so that lawlessness is no longer restrained?
 
There is a verse or are verses in the book of Revelations which says approximately the same. For now, Satan is limited by the Holy Spirit. When the latter steps back and allows the former a freer reign, literally all hell breaks loose for a period of time. My opinion is that action will occur toward the end of the reign of the Antichrist when the armies are gathered for that great battle. That too, will be limited in its destructive power by the return of Jesus.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bendito said:
This verse talks of the apostasy that is coming upon the Earth. Do you know anything about that? As in...We're in the beginnings of it now.
Click to expand...
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
Now, where does it talk about Apostasy?
 
Born Again 2004 said:
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
Now, where does it talk about Apostasy?
Click to expand...

The verse you quoted uses the words 'the rebellion' Other versions use 'falling away'. My favorite version uses 'apostasy'. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (CJB)
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way.

For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom.

apostasy

[uh-pos-tuh-see]


See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun, plural apostasies.
1.
a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party, cause, etc.

Your word 'rebellion' would fit as would falling away, abandonment, estrangement, disaffection or other similar words
 
Strypes said:
Back to the topic..

What is taken out so that lawlessness is unrestrained?

It seems you believe that it can not be The Holy Spirit because some folks are saved during the tribulation.

So what are your thoughts on what is taken out so that lawlessness is no longer restrained?
Click to expand...

The bride is taken out. It's the bride with her God given authority and prayer that holds back the evil one..She is, at present, doing battle, not with flesh and blood, but against the rulers, authorities and cosmic powers governing this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm.
In respect of the woman giving birth to the manchild.....The manchild comes out of the church..The bride comes out of the church...The bride, the manchild is the One New Man spoken of in Ephesians 2:15.
 
Bendito said:
The verse you quoted uses the words 'the rebellion' Other versions use 'falling away'. My favorite version uses 'apostasy'. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (CJB)
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way.

For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom.

apostasy

[uh-pos-tuh-see]


See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun, plural apostasies.
1.
a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party, cause, etc.

Your word 'rebellion' would fit as would falling away, abandonment, estrangement, disaffection or other similar words
Click to expand...
Yes well, thanks for the lesson on Apostates but, I was answering your original question on :"Who is he that lets?.....I was answering that it was the devil and that is further explained in verse 3 and not that Apostasy would also be prevalent or not.
 
Born Again 2004 said:
Yes well, thanks for the lesson on I Apostates but, I was answering your original question on :"Who is he that lets?.....I was answering that it was the devil and that is further explained in verse 3 and not that Apostasy would also be prevalent or not.[/QUOT




I understand...Still Its not the devil that is taken out.
Click to expand...
 
Bendito said:
In a sense, yes it is. Confess with my mouth is covenant though...refuse the mark is an action of my will..MY will. It's not covenant.
So it's not the Holy Spirit that is taken out. If He was taken out nobody could be saved during the tribulation period....It is the bride however...Revelation 12 talks about the One New Man being caught up...The man child birthed by the church.
Click to expand...

The restrainer is the Holy Spirit. The devil cannot have his way if God is on earth with him. Christians can also stop the devil. So I agree with you there. We also need to go.

We don't need the Holy Spirit to be saved. Getting saved after the rapture occurs as it did before the Holy Spirit was sent.
 
Bendito said:
One is not saved by action, but by the empowering PRESENCE OF God by faith in Him
Click to expand...
Salvation is a ticket to heaven. Only God can give it to us. But, we only get it if we are truly after His heart. We have to open the door to Jesus Rev 3:20. So your statement is true, but only half the truth.

Everyone in Abraham's bosom OT was eventually saved. It will be something similar for those in the tribulation.

I have also heard we need the Holy Spirit to convict us of sin. We don't, we only need a working brain.

Bendito said:
Romans 10:9 (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
8 For by grace (the empowering PRESENCE of God) are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Refusing the mark is nothing but a work. It takes no faith but an act of will

Keep in mind that God says one cannot be saved without the Holy Spirit draws him.
Click to expand...

God shows no partiality in who He decides to draw. So again, a half truth. God draws the whomsoever decides to let Him in. The whomsoever decides to hate what is evil and cling to what is good. The whomsoever decides to make a stand for Him.

These scriptures explain it clearly. James 4:8, Rom 12:9, Jer 17:10-11, Psalm 51:17, Rev 22:17, Acts 10:34.
 
Strypes said:
For clarity... ALL born again believers will be with Jesus and those folks that rejected Him prior to His coming for His Bride but realize their error will wise up and refuse to worship the the beast and refuse the mark. In the passage I quoted in my last post from Revelation chapter 20 it says John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded... Souls not Spirit... Those who are born again (prior to the Bride being taken out of the way) are born of spirit. We all have bodies. We all have souls. But you must be born of Spirit to be the Bride of Christ.
Click to expand...

Hi. I agree with most of what you writing. Just, we have souls, bodies and spirits. That is a human being. A Christian is adopted Eph 1:5 and sanctified / washed clean by the blood of Jesus.

Every single person that chooses to hate what is evil and cling to what is good will find Jesus. From Adam to the last person in the tribulation.

Rom 12:9 Genuine love is to hate what is evil and cling to what is good.
 
KingJ said:
The restrainer is the Holy Spirit. The devil cannot have his way if God is on earth with him. Christians can also stop the devil. So I agree with you there. We also need to go.

We don't need the Holy Spirit to be saved. Getting saved after the rapture occurs as it did before the Holy Spirit was sent.
Click to expand...


You said that we don't need the Holy Spirit in order to be saved...How does that line up with John 6:44-45 (CJB) 44 No one can come to me unless the Father — the One who sent me — draws him. And I will raise him up on the Last Day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘They will all be taught by Adonai.’a]">[a] Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
I'm afraid it does not line up at all...


The tribulation saints will not be saved without they are drawn....That is 'they will be shown their need and shown the how to get that need met'. By the Holy Spirit

As to 'he who lets' Who has been given dominion in the Earth? We have. Who has been given the authority to rule over demons? We have... Who lets or allows demons to run amok in the Earth? We do...Christians! We have been given that authority...So who is he that lets? We are.
 
Bendito said:
LOL Its the same thing...One is from the KJV and one is from the CJB...Look at the KJV


What would you base that conclusion on? If Satan was taken out then sin would probably diminish in the Earth, but we know that it increases from that point. Am I right?

BTW....Happy belated birthday...
Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit restrains the Devil and the Devil is eventually "taken out" by the Holy Spirit!
 
Bendito said:
1. You said that we don't need the Holy Spirit in order to be saved...How does that line up with John 6:44-45 (CJB) 44 No one can come to me unless the Father — the One who sent me — draws him. And I will raise him up on the Last Day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘They will all be taught by Adonai.’a]">[a]

2. Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
I'm afraid it does not line up at all...


3. The tribulation saints will not be saved without they are drawn....That is 'they will be shown their need and shown the how to get that need met'. By the Holy Spirit

4. As to 'he who lets' Who has been given dominion in the Earth? We have. Who has been given the authority to rule over demons? We have... Who lets or allows demons to run amok in the Earth? We do...Christians! We have been given that authority...So who is he that lets? We are.
Click to expand...

Hey Bendito. I just don't fully agree with you on this. I feel you are applying only have half the scripture.

1. Jesus is making it clear that God draws us to Him. Now the entirety of scripture makes it clear who in fact God does draw near to Him. As I said the 'whomsoever will'. Nobody has an excuse for not being drawn by God. God draws every human that is after His heart. That guy on an island that decides to hate what is evil will be paid a visit by God. How do you think Abraham was chosen? God did not randomly choose him. Same with every prophet ever chosen.

Mankind needed a Savior because mankind is accountable for their sins. Mankind is only accountable for their sins because they are a creation with working brains far above monkeys and just beneath angels. We are currently privileged to have the Holy Spirit with us as He is.

2. Jesus is solving the religion puzzle in that sentence. Why Christianity over Islam? Well if you are truly after God's heart you will inevitably run into Jesus. Everyone who got themselevs into AB in the OT and everyone who endures hell for Him in the tribulation is after His heart.

3. When we love what is good and hate what is evil we feel drawn. God has made our brains and emotions work that way. God has empowered us to come to Him just from the creation we are. We just '''''know'''''' that God is good and is pleased with us when we are too. He is. He judges us Jer 17:10-11 and if we pass OT, NT or tribulation James 4:8 and Rev 3:20 applies. The follow up to this / phase 2 is 1 Cor 12:3 / being able to truly call Jesus, Lord / being saved. Christians today are privileged in that they can enter eternal life now / confidently call a man who walked the earth and rose from the dead 2000 years ago, Lord.

4. I don't disagree. We have got power to bind and rebuke. The anti - christ cannot do as he wishes with us here. Same thing though with the Holy Spirit. We both have to go.
 
KingJ said:
Hey Bendito. I just don't fully agree with you on this. I feel you are applying only have half the scripture.

1. Jesus is making it clear that God draws us to Him. Now the entirety of scripture makes it clear who in fact God does draw near to Him. As I said the 'whomsoever will'. Nobody has an excuse for not being drawn by God. God draws every human that is after His heart. That guy on an island that decides to hate what is evil will be paid a visit by God. How do you think Abraham was chosen? God did not randomly choose him. Same with every prophet ever chosen.

Mankind needed a Savior because mankind is accountable for their sins. Mankind is only accountable for their sins because they are a creation with working brains far above monkeys and just beneath angels. We are currently privileged to have the Holy Spirit with us as He is.

2. Jesus is solving the religion puzzle in that sentence. Why Christianity over Islam? Well if you are truly after God's heart you will inevitably run into Jesus. Everyone who got themselevs into AB in the OT and everyone who endures hell for Him in the tribulation is after His heart.

3. When we love what is good and hate what is evil we feel drawn. God has made our brains and emotions work that way. God has empowered us to come to Him just from the creation we are. We just '''''know'''''' that God is good and is pleased with us when we are too. He is. He judges us Jer 17:10-11 and if we pass OT, NT or tribulation James 4:8 and Rev 3:20 applies. The follow up to this / phase 2 is 1 Cor 12:3 / being able to truly call Jesus, Lord / being saved. Christians today are privileged in that they can enter eternal life now / confidently call a man who walked the earth and rose from the dead 2000 years ago, Lord.

4. I don't disagree. We have got power to bind and rebuke. The anti - christ cannot do as he wishes with us here. Same thing though with the Holy Spirit. We both have to go.
Click to expand...

Well my dear friend....You can think that if you want...Its part of that free choice that God gave to us. You can argue with Gods Word all you want. I won't It's obvious that we will not agree today.....I will stay out of strife ...Hugs on you
 
I would say it's the reversal of the Day of Pentecost. The Body of Christ is a single entity composed of all the living and dead believers from Acts 2 until the Rapture, and will be "removed" from the earth simultaneously.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Members Online

Members online
2
Guests online
1,922
Total visitors
1,924
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Trending content

Newest members

Community Stats

Threads
79,927
Messages
471,776
Members
12,988
Latest Member
BnB4all
Active members today
16
New members today
0
New threads today
8
New posts today
11
Back
Top