Heaven after hell?

[B-A-C]

According to Luke 13:28, the most terrifying thing about hell, the thing that causes you to weep and gnash your teeth is separation.

My context of separation is only per Luke 13:28.

Luke 13:28; is only one verse. HI have no problem with that verse, it fits perfectly into my doctrine that agrees with "all" scripture.

Including Matt 13:42; and Matt 13:50;

In order for doctrine about Luke 13:28; to be valid, it has to agree with every other verse, including these two in Matthew 13.
Building a doctrine on a single stand alone verse in dangerous.

 

[KingJ]

Luke 13:28; is only one verse. HI have no problem with that verse, it fits perfectly into my doctrine that agrees with "all" scripture.

Including Matt 13:42; and Matt 13:50;

In order for doctrine about Luke 13:28; to be valid, it has to agree with every other verse, including these two in Matthew 13.
Building a doctrine on a single stand alone verse in dangerous.

Weeping and gnashing of teeth does take place in hell. God says this in so many verses as He wants this fact to sink in. Luke 13:28 is the ''only'' scripture that says exactly why it takes place.

I will not argue that the fire does not help with quenching the ''weeping and gnashing of teeth''. The fire, the sinful environment, your neighbors being evil, this all contributes, sure.

But, we cannot amend scripture to say what it does not and on fire it is very important to get this right. There is no scripture that says '''you are weeping and gnashing your teeth ''When'' or ''Because'' you are on fire. Please try understand this.

Luke 13:28 says '''you will weep and gnash your teeth ''when'' you see you are cast out''.

There is fire and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. That is what your scriptures in Matthew say.

You do not ''weep and gnash'' your teeth if you are thrown into a furnace. I can prove it, if you can find me a volunteer.

 

[B-A-C]

But, we cannot amend scripture to say what it does not and on fire it is very important to get this right. There is no scripture that says '''you are weeping and gnashing your teeth ''When'' or ''Because'' you are on fire. Please try understand this.

Luke 13:28 says '''you will weep and gnash your teeth ''when'' you see you are cast out''.

There is fire and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. That is what your scriptures in Matthew say.

You do not ''weep and gnash'' your teeth if you are thrown into a furnace. I can prove it, if you can find me a volunteer.

Ok, so we have moved from 'they aren't going into the fire', to now 'they are in the fire, but that isn't why they are tormented'.

Let me ask a question here. Whether they are physically tormented by the fire, or whether they are psychologically tormented by guilt and separation, ... is the torment any less real?

 

[B-A-C]

You do not ''weep and gnash'' your teeth if you are thrown into a furnace. I can prove it, if you can find me a volunteer.

Well it seems Meshach, Shadrach and Abednigo didn't.
But remember I'm an ex-fireman. I've been in the flames too.

 

[KingJ]

Ok, so we have moved from 'they aren't going into the fire', to now 'they are in the fire, but that isn't why they are tormented'.

We have not gone from ''no fire'' to ''fire''. I have from post one agreed with fire. It is the type of fire and the reason for the fire we need to get right as fire as we know it makes hell seem like this.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazen_bull...and this suggests God is the height of wickedness whose name is grouped with / put atop of names like, Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, Nero, Ivan the terrible.

Torment is real, we see the rich man was in a torment from the fire.

Let me ask a question here. Whether they are physically tormented by the fire, or whether they are psychologically tormented by guilt and separation, ... is the torment any less real?

I would think so, definitely. If I said you can either be placed in a brazen bull or left alone with your thoughts, which would you choose?

 

[KingJ]

Well it seems Meshach, Shadrach and Abednigo didn't.

Jesus being with them in the fire, causing them to not burn and suffer, is one of the most comforting and powerful truths in scripture.

But remember I'm an ex-fireman. I've been in the flames too.

Nice, you speak with a lot of experience then .

Then you should know the smoke is the real killer. Your lungs are filled with it, you cough, cannot breathe, have this burning and dry sensation and then the poisons like carbon monoxide, cyanide and what not else kills. No weeping, no gnashing of teeth as you noted.

My focus point is on the torture of fire. The brazen bull comparison.

 

[Garee]

I have not clue what you are talking about. Nor this ''minds eye'' you keep speaking of. Where do you get that from?

What are you talking about here? Again, sounds like utter madness. The rich man was on fire and spoke. He was not dead.

You read this as the rich man is enduring a ''slow'' cruel and torturous ''literal death''?

This event is before the white throne judgement. You have just quoted a verse that outright debunks annihilationism. We see a wicked person on fire long before judgement day.

Thanks for the reply Sorry for the misunderstanding. .

We have the mind of Christ or power of God in the earthen bodies of death. We would never assume it . . the power to believe God not seen is of us. . . we have no power of our own .

The mind’s eye are the visions that are revealed as it is written. Some call it the eyes of the heart (our new born again hearts) God’s understanding revealed from God above not from men earthly.

 

[Garee]

Jesus being with them in the fire, causing them to not burn and suffer, is one of the most comforting and powerful truths in scripture.

That parable is simply showing the effects of the letter of the law “death” accompanied with its suffering (hell ) It does not effect the son of God as a believers.

They are yoked with him sharing the suffering empowered by the father. On the last day death according to the law . . .you shall die as in dying the suffering unto death. If one has not receive a new born again spirit .their bodies return to the dust or clay from which they were formed of and the temporal spirit under the letter of the law return to the father of all spiritual life.

The letter of the law death and its sufferings hell .once thrown into the spirit of judgment .They death and hell the suffering will not rise and condemn through corruption another entire creation .The former sufferings will not be remember or ever come to mind .


You could say two deaths that of those decieved (thous shall not surely die) The apointment to all. And the death of death itself . Death never to rise again

 

[Br. Bear]

Well it seems Meshach, Shadrach and Abednigo didn't.
But remember I'm an ex-fireman. I've been in the flames too.

you mean, Mishael, Hananiah and Azariah didn't!

Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.
Daniel 1:7


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Matt 25:46; These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The word "eternal" is in this verse twice, it is the exact same word both times.

It is the exact same length of time, in both instances. If "eternal" punishment is only for a few seconds, then "eternal" life is only for a few seconds.

I think this point has been overlooked and needs revisiting


Bless you ....><>

 

[Garee]

Greetings,






I think this point has been overlooked and needs revisiting


Bless you ....><>

The punishment is they will never rise to new spirit life . There earthen bodies of death return to the clay from where it was formed and the temporal spirit under the judgment of the letter of the law. . "Do not or you will surely die" wil return to the father of all spirit life.

This is unlike those given a new born again spirit of faith all die not recieving the promise of a new body. they wil rise on the last day

Hebrews 11: 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

 

[B-A-C]

This is unlike those given a new born again spirit of faith all die not recieving the promise of a new body. they wil rise on the last day

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Garee]

Greetings,






I think this point has been overlooked and needs revisiting


Bless you ....><>

Eternal punishment is to never rise to etenal life .

Eternal life. . . . . new spirit life given it lasts eternally .


Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

It would seem the I woulds have it