How Do You "Fall Away" From Such A God?

[james1523]

I believe "fall away" means experientially not positionally.

Positionally we are sons of God through Jesus Christ. That is our position that we are seated in the heavenlies with Christ. God is our Father forever. We cannot lose this position. Our positional salvation is secure. Practically, our spirit is regenerated and cannot be unregenerated. The Spirit and our spirit have become one spirit. We cannot become "unborn". We will not go to the lake of fire.
But experientially we may not walk and live as sons of God. This is our condition. This is something we can gain or lose. Our experiential salvation is not secure. Practically, this is the experience of our soul. Is our thoughts, feelings and will in Christ or in ourselves? The consequence for disobedience is temporary punishment on this earth, or in the future in outer darkness. Only to be restored later with the overcoming believers - the rewards for overcoming believers are detailed in Revelation.
God never gives up His children - they are His forever. But He does discipline and correct them, either in this life or the next (1 Cor 5:5).

I can prove once and for all that falling away is not loss of salvation.
Here Paul says they have been alienated from Christ, fallen from grace:
Gal 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Then a few verses later, Paul calls these same people brethren:
Gal 5:11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.

and previously he called them children of God:

Gal 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,

This proves that their positional salvation as Christians and members of Christ's Body has not been lost. They have not been alienated from Christ in the sense that they have lost their position as sons of God. Falling away from grace and being alienated from Christ, means they have stopped experiencing God's grace, their fellowship with Christ has been lost - their soul, is not filled with the Spirit, their soul has died. But their regenerated spirit still lives - the Spirit has not forsaken them, they are still children of God. It does not mean that their positional status as sons of God has been lost.

Looking to the Old Testament types - there is the Temple, with the outer court, the holy place and holy of holies. This represents our body, soul and spirit (our bodies are temples). If God dwells in our spirit, He always remains there. But God may also dwell in our soul (mind, emotions, will), the holy place. But if He is not welcome there, He will withdraw back to the holy of holies. God can also dwell in our body to give us life (Rom 8:11). But He cannot dwell in our body in a full way - there is still the future glorification of the body when Christ returns. So positional salvation is about having God in your spirit, or "Christ in you". If He's there you're safe from hellfire. But experiential salvation is about how much of God is in your soul and your body - are you in Christ? Full salvation is about Christ living in us, and then us living in Christ. Christ coming to live in us is a free gift, without merit. But us living in Christ requires our own effort - we need to align our soul with the spirit, by choosing what we set our mind on (Col 3:2). God does not want to dwell just in the holy of holies, He wants to fill the whole temple with His glory:

2 Chr 5:14 "and the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the temple of God."

This means God wants to fill our whole being, spirit, soul and body, with His glory.

1 Thess 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What is God's glory? God's glory is the expression of His virtues, which are the fruit of the Spirit:

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

God's Glory is also Christ as a light to the nations, and the shining light in us:
Luke 2:32 He is a light to reveal God to the nations, and he is the glory of your people Israel!"

Col 1:27 To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

 

[RJ]

I would ask... Have you ever sinned since you have been saved?
Do you think it was God's (Holy Spirit) will that you do this sin?
Can an unsaved person who doesn't have the Holy Spirit resist what they don't have?

Acts 7:51; Jas 1:13;

• I would ask... Have you ever sinned since you have been saved?
  Not on purpose with no regard because I was already saved
• Do you think it was God's (Holy Spirit) will that you do this sin?
  No offense but, don't you think that is a bit absurd!
• Can an unsaved person who doesn't have the Holy Spirit resist what they don't have?
  Of course not and I have been talking only about the saved.

 

[B-A-C]

I would ask... Have you ever sinned since you have been saved?
Not on purpose with no regard because I was already saved

So all of your sins have been spontaneous? None of them have been contemplated?
You've never thought "I know I shouldn't do this, but..." ??

 

[RJ]

So all of your sins have been spontaneous? None of them have been contemplated?
You've never thought "I know I shouldn't do this, but..." ??

I am sure I have so, what is your point B-A-C ?

 

[farout]

So all of your sins have been spontaneous? None of them have been contemplated?
You've never thought "I know I shouldn't do this, but..." ??

B-A-C I believe many of us have. I and very ashamed to admit that I have. It has bothered me very much afterwards. The same and anger at myself are hardest of all to deal with. Confession seems so difficult to deal with. There have been times that I did not know at the time I was doing a sin until I thought about it. For example, I was sure a fishing reel that was defective came from Walmart. The person in Sporting Goods assured me it was not from Walmart. But gave me a replacement that was close to what I brought in. When I got home I thought about it, and I then remembered it was from Bass Pro. I did not say anything for a long time. By then it was too late to do anything about it and no one would or could accept it back. Now everytime I use that reel I am reminded of that. I do not feel good about it. I think I will try again to try and see If Walmart would like me to pay for it. The cost was under $ 12. bit it bothers me. After writing this I am sure I will try to do something about it one more time. Wow this sorta got me thinking.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

I think its important to look at the story of Adam and Eve when judging whether or not folks are saved. Had there been other witnesses, wouldn't those people have been certain that Adam and Eve were saved? After all, they walked personally with God in the garden. Yet they allowed the snake to make them think they could be equal with God (Gen 3:4).

SLE

 

[B-A-C]

I am sure I have so, what is your point B-A-C ?

As a child I watched cartoons on television. Every once in a while there would be someone trying to make a moral decision.
The cartoon animators pictured this as a little devil with horns and a pitchfork on one shoulder and a little angel with wings and a harp on the other shoulder.
The two sides would debate until the person made a decision. (Usually bad it seems )
In a way this isn't so far off. Satan is whispering in our ear.. do this, do that, eat the fruit, it's ok, no one will know.
The Holy Spirit is "whispering" in our other ear, convicting us of what we should do and not do. This is also called a conscious sometimes.
The point is, every time we hear this little voice reminding us not to sin, and we sin anyway.. we are actually "resisting" the Holy Spirit.

Yes, the good news is, we can be forgiven.

 

[RJ]

As a child I watched cartoons on television. Every once in a while there would be someone trying to make a moral decision.
The cartoon animators pictured this as a little devil with horns and a pitchfork on one shoulder and a little angel with wings and a harp on the other shoulder.
The two sides would debate until the person made a decision. (Usually bad it seems )
In a way this isn't so far off. Satan is whispering in our ear.. do this, do that, eat the fruit, it's ok, no one will know.
The Holy Spirit is "whispering" in our other ear, convicting us of what we should do and not do. This is also called a conscious sometimes.
The point is, every time we hear this little voice reminding us not to sin, and we sin anyway.. we are actually "resisting" the Holy Spirit.

Yes, the good news is, we can be forgiven.

Yes, we all do that to some degree, I will let God be the judge of that.
Your right but, I think a better way of saying it is, in Christ we are forgiven.

 

[james1523]

As a child I watched cartoons on television. Every once in a while there would be someone trying to make a moral decision.
The cartoon animators pictured this as a little devil with horns and a pitchfork on one shoulder and a little angel with wings and a harp on the other shoulder.
The two sides would debate until the person made a decision. (Usually bad it seems )
In a way this isn't so far off. Satan is whispering in our ear.. do this, do that, eat the fruit, it's ok, no one will know.
The Holy Spirit is "whispering" in our other ear, convicting us of what we should do and not do. This is also called a conscious sometimes.
The point is, every time we hear this little voice reminding us not to sin, and we sin anyway.. we are actually "resisting" the Holy Spirit.

Yes, the good news is, we can be forgiven.

On a very small note and hopefully an encouragement, the Holy Spirit's speaking and the conscience are actually slightly different things. The Holy Spirit speaks to us from within, from our spirit. The conscience is that part of the spirit that was activated after man fell. God spoke to Adam and Eve before the conscience was activated. After they fell, the conscience became the primary way mankind could know the difference between good and evil. God let his people fall, but not completely! He gave them a way to know His ways - by the conscience. Imagine if people did not have a conscience, how much more evil there would be in the world? Unbelievers, who do not have the Spirit, can still know good from evil by following the conscience. (Romans 2:14). However as Christians, God does not want us to be led by our conscience, God primarily wants to speak to us and guide us by His Spirit in our spirit. The conscience, being weak and defiled, has a tendency to condemn us, but with the Spirit is no condemnation.
If we have Jewish background, the conscience may say "you must not eat pork", (the conscience is often weak and defiled, 1 Cor 10:29) but the Spirit in our spirit (and as confirmed by the Word of God), deep within, will say "all things are clean, you can eat the pork". Suppose this person obeyed their conscience - they would not be listening to the Spirit. This is a clear example that resisting the conscience, and resisting the Spirit, are actually two different things.