If you’re a Christian and you support the modern geopolitical state of Israel, you deny that Christ is the Messiah. It's that simple.

[Johanabrahams]

Jesus was never interested in the Roman Empire ruling over the Jews in His time to make them slaves. He had a Greater Message to shook the world. And to raise up His Kids in Spiritual Power and not political power. Of course the Jews were used to God being a Political Power om physically saving the nation of Israel. But then He became a Spiritual Savior of all mankind. And showed us that His Manifestation of who He was a Savior in a Physical Saving of His Physical Child Israel is now just the shadow of what He Revealed to us in Jesus as a Spiritual Power to rule the World in The Spirit of Wisdom. Where we all enter being Judges and Kings. When we are Old Enough and finished our Milk and Meat of course.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

I do believe history is divided by the coming of Yashuah in flesh, making me a Dispensationalist, and the Protestants I fellowship among believe Yashuah fulfilled over 300 First Testament prophecies. And this monologue gets no better as it descends.

I’m glad you affirm Christ came in the flesh and fulfilled prophecy — that’s the heart of the Gospel. But just to be clear: that alone isn’t what defines Dispensationalism.

Dispensationalism teaches that Christ’s Kingdom is postponed, that national Israel must be politically restored for God’s plan to resume, and that the Church is a kind of detour.

That’s what I was calling out — not belief in Jesus.

If you reject that system and believe Christ fulfilled the promises to Israel through His life, death, resurrection, and ascension — then we may agree more than you think.

But if you still believe God has a separate, geopolitical plan for Israel apart from the Cross, that’s what I meant when I said Dispensationalism contradicts the Gospel.

Jesus didn’t leave prophecy half-finished —
He said ‘It is finished.’ (John 19:30)"

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Jesus was never interested in the Roman Empire ruling over the Jews in His time to make them slaves. He had a Greater Message to shook the world. And to raise up His Kids in Spiritual Power and not political power. Of course the Jews were used to God being a Political Power om physically saving the nation of Israel. But then He became a Spiritual Savior of all mankind. And showed us that His Manifestation of who He was a Savior in a Physical Saving of His Physical Child Israel is now just the shadow of what He Revealed to us in Jesus as a Spiritual Power to rule the World in The Spirit of Wisdom. Where we all enter being Judges and Kings. When we are Old Enough and finished our Milk and Meat of course.

Brother, I agree with almost everything you just said — and it’s exactly what I’ve been saying.

Jesus wasn’t about political empires or restoring an earthly throne. He revealed the spiritual Kingdom that transcends borders, bloodlines, and timelines — and invited us into it through the Cross.

What you described — a shift from shadow to substance, from national deliverance to eternal salvation — that’s the heartbeat of the New Covenant.

But here’s the thing:
That truth contradicts Dispensationalism.
Because that system teaches the opposite — that we’re still waiting on national Israel to be restored politically, and that Jesus' Kingdom is postponed.

So if you truly believe what you just said, you might want to reconsider the label.
Because what you wrote sounds a lot more like the Gospel of the Kingdom than the timelines of Scofield.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

I think it's important to approach difficult theological topics with both truth and grace. Jesus did call us to bold faith, but also to love our neighbors.

I've noticed how easy it is for people to create "us vs. them" thinking. Our brains naturally categorize things, but this can sometimes lead to harmful generalizations. Not all Jews follow the Talmud exactly as described here, just as not all Christians interpret Scripture the same way.

Looking at history, the relationship between Christianity and Judaism has been complex. Jesus himself was Jewish, as were all the apostles. The early church struggled with questions about Gentile inclusion, not Jewish exclusion.

The Gospel of John, especially chapter 8, does contain strong language. Jesus was addressing specific religious leaders who opposed him, not making blanket statements about all Jewish people across all time. Context matters when reading these passages.

When we talk about "true Israel" or "God's chosen people," Scripture does point to faith in Jesus as the key factor rather than bloodlines. Paul explains this in Romans 9:6 when he says "not all who are descended from Israel are Israel." Salvation comes through faith in Christ for everyone - Jew or Gentile.

I believe we should stand firm on biblical truth while avoiding language that might fuel hatred or prejudice. After all, Jesus came to reconcile all people to God through his sacrifice.

You're right to remind us to walk in grace — but grace without truth isn't grace at all.
Love doesn’t ignore blasphemy against Christ or pretend all faiths lead to the same God.

Yes, Jesus was Jewish — and so were His apostles. But what matters isn’t ethnicity — it's what you do with Jesus.

I never said all ethnic Jews follow the Talmud. I said Talmudic Judaism — the dominant religious form after the Temple fell — openly and violently rejects Jesus Christ. That’s not a generalization. That’s a documented fact, and it’s foundational to this discussion.

Jesus did speak directly to Jewish leaders in John 8, calling them sons of the devil — and that wasn’t about personality conflicts. It was because they rejected Him. And He wasn’t just speaking to a moment in time. He was exposing the spirit that rejects the Messiah — a spirit still present in any system, religious or political, that denies the Son.

Paul said, 'They are not all Israel who are of Israel.' (Rom. 9:6)
Exactly. And that was my point — true Israel is found in Christ.

Dispensationalism tries to resurrect a nation that rejected its King, as if salvation is still by race or by timeline.
But the Cross made it clear — there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)

That’s not hatred. That’s the Gospel.

And if people hate that truth — they hated Him first." (John 15:18)

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

I agree with all you quoted from the Scriptures and with most all, if not all of your conclusions. This is a subject I regularly teach on, as well, but it is not well received by most people. I have been called a heretic more than once and told that I deserve to be burned at a stake because I teach the truth of what the Scriptures teach on this subject. Do you have all of this in a blog somewhere? I would like to be able to share it, if that is possible.

I really appreciate that, brother — it’s rare to find someone who not only sees it but is willing to teach it, knowing the backlash it brings.

Most people want their theology to be comfortable and culturally safe — not confrontational to religious systems. But the Gospel offends false foundations. Always has.

I haven’t posted this in blog form yet, but I’ve been compiling a lot of this for a larger project — possibly a book. I’d be glad to clean it up and share it as a shareable post or doc if that would be helpful.

Appreciate your courage, your discernment, and your willingness to stand in the fire. You’re not alone — there are more of us than they realize.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Yes, Previously named Jabob the deceiver. The new born again name Israel "He who wrestles with God and man and overcomes because of Christ (Genesis 32:28) Christ our husband working in those born-again Isreal.

Not all Isarel is born again Isreal in the same way a Jew is not one outwardly (DNA) but one by faith the unseen invisible

Romans 2:28-29For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Revelation 2:9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
I
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

In that was the new name the Holy Father promised to name the church of all the nations of the world Christian. literally with no other meaning added .Residents of the heavenly city of Christ named after Christ the husband prepared for his bride "Christian" a more befitting name to name the bride of all the nations .Some of the Jew turned it into a derogatory words like bible thumpers, or brain dead, the fishy group .

We can hope that Mr. Trump in humility makes the name "Christian" great again. The new 4th of July

Isaiah 6262 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.;And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Israel will be doing the same battle that began with Ishamel. just as with Cain two nation from one family. Two different kinds of blessings. One forever or until the last day under the Sun end of time .

The other eternal is forever and ever. It is used both ways. In that way we should protect the parable of Israel until the last day under the Sun as a sign to the unbelieving nations

You’re speaking a lot of truth here — especially about who true Israel is.

You nailed it with Romans 2:28–29 and Revelation 2:9 — there’s no such thing as a Jew in God’s eyes apart from Christ. Those born of the Spirit are the true Israel, the Bride, the ones with circumcised hearts.

You’re also right to say the Church is given a new name, not tied to bloodline, but to the risen Christ — and that name is Christian, citizens of the heavenly Zion. I love how you tied that to Isaiah 62 — that our righteousness shines as a light to the nations.

Where I’d encourage caution is this idea that we must “protect the parable of Israel” until the last day. If by that you mean protecting the witness of the Church as the fulfillment of Israel, amen. But if it means continuing to view geopolitical Israel as a prophetic signpost, that risks dragging us back into the shadows — the very shadows Christ fulfilled.

Also — I get the symbolic nod to Trump and the idea of making 'Christian' a name of honor again. But our hope isn’t in any politician or nationalism. The name 'Christian' was always glorious — because it bears the Name above all names.

Let’s keep lifting His name high — not attaching it to nations, timelines, or parties.
The Lamb wins. Not Babylon. Not Rome. Not D.C.

 

[Sue J Love]

I really appreciate that, brother — it’s rare to find someone who not only sees it but is willing to teach it, knowing the backlash it brings.

Most people want their theology to be comfortable and culturally safe — not confrontational to religious systems. But the Gospel offends false foundations. Always has.

I haven’t posted this in blog form yet, but I’ve been compiling a lot of this for a larger project — possibly a book. I’d be glad to clean it up and share it as a shareable post or doc if that would be helpful.

Appreciate your courage, your discernment, and your willingness to stand in the fire. You’re not alone — there are more of us than they realize.

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful response. However, I am a sister, not a brother. I am a 75 year old wife of 52 years to my husband Rick, a mother of 4 (plus 3 in-law children), and a grandmother of 16, and a great-grandmother of one. The Lord called me 21 years ago to write down what he is teaching me from his word each day and to post these writings on the internet, so that is what I have been doing since 2004. And it is the Lord who taught me these things about Israel, and it does take a lot of courage to speak these things, for it appears the majority think otherwise. Thank you for speaking the truth. It did encourage my heart to read what you wrote. And thank you for responding to me. Much appreciated. Sue Love

Yes, if you could put all of what you wrote in this post (not including your responses to people) in a shareable document, I would appreciate that.

 

[KingJ]

For over 100 years, Dispensationalism has led Christians to believe that Christ did not fulfill the prophecies of the Old Testament, thus making the modern state of Israel a required piece in God’s unfinished plan — a doctrine completely at odds with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Incorrect. Dispensationalists merely recognize different dispensations. You are adding in your assumptions.

They’ve been led to believe that Christians and Jews worship the same God

We do.

— as if the only difference is that Jews just don’t accept Jesus as the Messiah. But that’s not a small difference — that’s the defining line between truth and total rejection of Christ.

As is the case with all of the unsaved, religious people in the world. What's the point?

The god of modern Judaism explicitly rejects Christ, making it impossible to claim we worship the same God.

Incorrect. We all serve the same God. The God the prophets taught us to. The same prophets in the OT are in the Hebrew bible.

Than, many Jews convert to Christianity as a result of seeing the ties between the Messiah and Jesu in their Hebrew bible.

The Talmud says that Christ was a “sorcerer who is now burning in hell in a cauldron of boiling human excrement” (Gittin 57a). So they, Talmudic Jews, are openly anti-Christ. Their god doesn’t like Jesus Christ — in fact, he loathes him and everything he represents. These aren’t minor theological disagreements — they’re explicit rejections and blasphemies against Christ. Judaism doesn’t just deny Jesus as the Messiah; it curses him and teaches that his eternal punishment is absolutely justified.

The Talmud is not a part of the Hebrew bible.

They worship the antithesis of Jesus Christ — which would be THE ANTICHRIST, whose father is SATAN.

The antichrist is not yet around to be worshipped.

If we both follow the religion of Abraham, and you think that my God is “burning in hell,” then who is your god? It sure as damnation itself isn’t the Christian God. No — that would be impossible. It’s the opposite of the Christian God. And he who is the opposite of the Christian God, is the devil.

You have included the Talmud in your evaluation of the Hebrew bible. That is a very novice mistake to make.

Jesus called the Jews “the children of the devil” (John 8:44) and to a Christian

It is braindead discernment to isolate the Jews with John 8:44. Anyone of us could be guilty of having crucified Jesus. This is why Jesus said ''forgive them, they know not what they do''. The point Jesus makes in John 8:44 is better explained to us by Paul when he talks about walking in the flesh.

Let’s stop pretending. If you reject Jesus Christ and wait for another messiah, you're not neutral — you're preparing the world for the Antichrist, the son of Satan.

What utter croc. You must have been smoking something when you wrote this.

Jews practice and try their best to live by the laws of the OT. ANYONE doing this is a GOOD person. This is really a DUH fact.

Imagine finding fault with a person avoiding all mortal sins and trying their best to deal with venial sins. You seem to think being a Christian is purely about faith in Jesus. Please read here for a proper explanation of what a Christian is:

Thread 'What is a Christian and how do you become one?'

Nov 15, 2022

A Christian is best defined by John 3:16

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

A Christian is the 'whomsoever' will believe in Jesus. Now, nobody can believe a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is the Messiah, God of the universe Isa 9:6, without some help. The bible tells us in Matt 16:16-17 and 1 Cor 12:3, that a revelation from above / the Holy Spirit is necessary. It is completely impossible to believe Jesus is Lord without a revelation from the Holy Spirit 1...

• KingJ
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Bible Study

Thread 'So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is!'

Oct 29, 2024

This OP consists of:

Section 1 - Venting
Section 2 - Explaining what a Christian is
Section 3 - Concluding argument

Section 1 - Venting:

I am so tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is! It has been suggested that Judas was a Christian. That a Christian can lose their salvation if they make mistakes just before they die. Or that God cherry picks some humans and makes them Christians.

When these statements are made it is crystal clear to me that A - The individual has no clue as to what a Christian is and B - The individual has no clue as to who God is.

Now, none of...

• KingJ
• Replies: 178
• Forum: Questions about Christianity

And if you're a Christian who defends that (and the Rothschilds' manufactured state of Israel), you're not courageous or compassionate — you're spiritually sedated and complicit in betrayal.

You are overly demonizing the Jews. I am guessing you read ''they believe Jesus is in hell being tortured'' in the Talmud and now hate all Jews. Wow, very deep discernment.

According to Scripture, the true "Israel" is made up of those who follow Jesus Christ.

Incorrect. Israel is a land that God gave to the Hebrews when He miraculously freed them from 400 years of slavery.

God still has plans for the Jews, they are and will always be His 'chosen' race for the purpose of being an example of His laws and the bloodline of God the Son, the Messiah. Gentiles are added to the fold and the plan of redemption.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

----------------------

The rest of your posts are just further emotional drivel. Overly demonizing the Jews for no actual valid reasons. Seemingly completely oblivious to the curse upon them from God and hatred from the devil. I feel that the bible is flying over your head.

Your thread title is 100% false, ignorant and simply braindead. Jews are under attack in literally every location and by everyone. Now a 'Christian' decides to type a thread like this? I am surprised mods have not deleted this thread. You are embarrassing Christianity.

 

[Johanabrahams]

we’re still waiting on national Israel to be restored politically, and that Jesus' Kingdom is postponed.

We are waiting on nobody, Brother. We are growing up in the Word of Jesus of the Creator, Jehovah, who became our "Abba Father/Daddy" and raising us in the Life of Jesus to enter Judgment and Ruling when we are Adults. This existed from always. Jesus in His Kingdom Authority of Ruling in Wisdom existed from the beginning. It is just a question of becoming an Adult and be Anointed with the Wisdom of our Daddy. Then we start Judging and Ruling in Wisdom which is Gods Ruling as oppose to human ruling in laws.

Mat. 16:
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And you will see that the Word of Jesus's Creation in Fullness is already Existing and Creating it. The last of Revelations is now being Revealed. The time to enter is now here. The Bridegroom is finally here. But some are still sleeping. And missing out.

 

[Garee]

We are waiting on nobody, Brother. We are growing up in the Word of Jesus of the Creator, Jehovah, who became our "Abba Father/Daddy" and raising us in the Life of Jesus to enter Judgment and Ruling when we are Adults. This existed from always. Jesus in His Kingdom Authority of Ruling in Wisdom existed from the beginning. It is just a question of becoming an Adult and be Anointed with the Wisdom of our Daddy. Then we start Judging and Ruling in Wisdom which is Gods Ruling as oppose to human ruling in laws.

Mat. 16:
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And you will see that the Word of Jesus's Creation in Fullness is already Existing and Creating it. The last of Revelations is now being Revealed. The time to enter is now here. The Bridegroom is finally here. But some are still sleeping. And missing out.

Be careful how you judge our Father alone can rebuke a lying spirit or raise one dead to new spirit life.

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
Rom 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
Rom 11:27 "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
Rom 11:28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
Rom 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

 

[Johanabrahams]

Be careful how you judge

Sure. Humans have no Wisdom to Judge. They do accusations and are then Judged by the Living God.

our Father alone can rebuke a lying spirit

Amen. That is Him doing the Judgment from Me as His Temple. That is how all who have Judgment Authority is doing it. By Him speaking the Judgments and giving the Words of Fire to burn what needs to be burned, Brother. Only He is the Judge and King. But from our Bodies where we enjoy being Judge and King with Him. Because He is Judging and Ruling from the Adult Kids who are His Sons in Adulthood.

 

[Dylan569]

But if some of the branches(Physical Jews) were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot(Elect Gentiles), were grafted in their place to share the richness/rich root (Jesus the Christ) of the olive tree(God's people), do not boast over the branches(Physical Jews). If you do boast, remember it is not you that support the root(Christ), but the root(Christ) that supports you. You will say, “Branches(Physical Jews) were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. For if God did not spare the natural branches(Physical Jews), neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off. And even the others(Physical Jews), if they do not persist in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree(Gentiles), and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree(God's people), how much more will these natural branches(Elect Jews) be grafted back into their own olive tree(God's people). Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel(Physical Jews), until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel(elect Jews & elect Gentiles) will be saved; as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” (Rom 11:17-27 RSV)

Keep in mind, the same exact word can be used in the very same verse with two different meanings - "But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." (Matt 8:22, KJV)

But it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his descendants; but “Through Isaac shall your descendants be named.” (Rom 9:6-7 RSV)

For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal. His praise is not from men but from God. (Rom 2:28-29 RSV)

But far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. Peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God. (Gal 6:14-16 RSV)

 

[th1bill]

I’m glad you affirm Christ came in the flesh and fulfilled prophecy — that’s the heart of the Gospel. But just to be clear: that alone isn’t what defines Dispensationalism.

Dispensationalism teaches that Christ’s Kingdom is postponed, that national Israel must be politically restored for God’s plan to resume, and that the Church is a kind of detour.

That’s what I was calling out — not belief in Jesus.

If you reject that system and believe Christ fulfilled the promises to Israel through His life, death, resurrection, and ascension — then we may agree more than you think.

But if you still believe God has a separate, geopolitical plan for Israel apart from the Cross, that’s what I meant when I said Dispensationalism contradicts the Gospel.

Jesus didn’t leave prophecy half-finished —
He said ‘It is finished.’ (John 19:30)"

I am doing a Church Doctrine study this year and we just defined the Dispensationalist position and there is not even a hint of the garbage you are spewing here. Dispositionalists have aways held fast to Salvation through the Messiah only. You need to educate yourself and not spew trash like this.