Is Church Tithing an Abomination to God, or Unbiblical?

KingJ said:
Nothing wrong with tithing. God ensured tithing was harshly enforced OT with the Levites as He wanted them to be taken care of. He did not want the Levites begging.

The only time we should have an issue with tithing is firstly, if we see the staff are living above average. Moderation is Christianity 101. Secondly, any teaching of testing God and scaring people with the OT curses are insane errors. Jews were not children of God. Children should give 0-100%. I am ok with 10% only as it is a fair / reasonable %.

11 tribes giving 10% equated to the Levites living on par with all the other tribes.
Click to expand...
Thre
KingJ said:
Nothing wrong with tithing. God ensured tithing was harshly enforced OT with the Levites as He wanted them to be taken care of. He did not want the Levites begging.

The only time we should have an issue with tithing is firstly, if we see the staff are living above average. Moderation is Christianity 101. Secondly, any teaching of testing God and scaring people with the OT curses are insane errors. Jews were not children of God. Children should give 0-100%. I am ok with 10% only as it is a fair / reasonable %.

11 tribes giving 10% equated to the Levites living on par with all the other tribes.
Click to expand...
There are loads of things wrong with tithing. You clearly have not read the thread or you may have at least addressed some of the issues instead of offering clichéd... I'll stop here.

The levites were never going to go begging. They had full time secular jobs, only working at the temple about 7 days a year. Which is one reason only land owners and flocks owners, a small minority of the population, tithed.

There is no biblical evidence that anyone gave 10% of their income. This is a lie perpetuated by modern pastors.


Simon
 
Greetings Simon,

Simon said:
This is a lie perpetuated by modern pastors.
Click to expand...

do you mean modern shepherds? There is good reason why Jesus is the good Shepherd especially in the light of the shepherds who care for their own life above the flock, who fleece them regularly but protect themselves instead of the lambs and sheep.

I don't think many people realize that the priest only worked those few days each year.
I am also quite sure that if it was sin for Christians to not tithe, they would have been told so and we would read such in Scripture.

Unfortunately too many preach tithing in direct or indirect ways and preach little of true righteousness, often practicing unrighteousness themselves.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving to those in need but regularly giving 10% becomes a work and sadly a boasting.
None in the body should have less or more but the love of money deceives many. Many claim that the LORD has blessed them, some even that He has rewarded them, and of them, many claim themselves to be God's possession yet they hold on tightly to that which the LORD has given them for the Body. It is sad.

Why in a congregation are there those who try not to pray for food and ability to pay rent or bills while in the same congregation there are those who have much much more than they need and only give 10% for the treasurer to count? How often I have heard the condemnation of a Godly man who has financial difficulties by those who have it in their hands to help them? The poor need to learn how to handle their finances, to get a job, to learn to prioritize ... rather than to learn of the love of God demonstrated by selfless saints.
And how many poor become bitter because they see the hypocrisy of the self righteous.

The doctrine of tithing leads many astray and because the shepherds preach it they do not care.

And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not My flock;

Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds;

Ezekiel 34:1-10a

Jesus Christ has shown us a better way - follow Him.

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 13:35

Bless you ....><>
 
Br. Bear said:
Greetings Simon,



do you mean modern shepherds? There is good reason why Jesus is the good Shepherd especially in the light of the shepherds who care for their own life above the flock, who fleece them regularly but protect themselves instead of the lambs and sheep.

I don't think many people realize that the priest only worked those few days each year.
I am also quite sure that if it was sin for Christians to not tithe, they would have been told so and we would read such in Scripture.

Unfortunately too many preach tithing in direct or indirect ways and preach little of true righteousness, often practicing unrighteousness themselves.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving to those in need but regularly giving 10% becomes a work and sadly a boasting.
None in the body should have less or more but the love of money deceives many. Many claim that the LORD has blessed them, some even that He has rewarded them, and of them, many claim themselves to be God's possession yet they hold on tightly to that which the LORD has given them for the Body. It is sad.

Why in a congregation are there those who try not to pray for food and ability to pay rent or bills while in the same congregation there are those who have much much more than they need and only give 10% for the treasurer to count? How often I have heard the condemnation of a Godly man who has financial difficulties by those who have it in their hands to help them? The poor need to learn how to handle their finances, to get a job, to learn to prioritize ... rather than to learn of the love of God demonstrated by selfless saints.
And how many poor become bitter because they see the hypocrisy of the self righteous.

The doctrine of tithing leads many astray and because the shepherds preach it they do not care.

And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did My shepherds search for My flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not My flock;

Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds;

Ezekiel 34:1-10a

Jesus Christ has shown us a better way - follow Him.

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are My disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 13:35

Bless you ....><>
Click to expand...


I think this is the best post on the whole thread!
Better than anything I have written.
If you read nothing else, read Bear's post.

Simon
 
Simon said:
Thre

1There are loads of things wrong with tithing. You clearly have not read the thread or you may have at least addressed some of the issues instead of offering clichéd... I'll stop here.

The levites were never going to go begging. They had full time secular jobs, only working at the temple about 7 days a year. Which is one reason only land owners and flocks owners, a small minority of the population, tithed.

There is no biblical evidence that anyone gave 10% of their income. This is a lie perpetuated by modern pastors.

Simon
Click to expand...

Numbers 18:21-24 “I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the tent of meeting. From now on the Israelites must not go near the tent of meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. It is the Levites who are to do the work at the tent of meeting and bear the responsibility for any offenses they commit against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the Lord. That is why I said concerning them: ‘They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.

This scripture is pretty crystal clear. Yes the Levites owned land outside of Israel. Yes they were able to perform other occupations. You are using that argument completely out of context though. Their primary duty was to be in service to God.


As for the ''no scripture on 10%'', are you being serious?
 
KingJ said:
Numbers 18:21-24 “I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the tent of meeting. From now on the Israelites must not go near the tent of meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. It is the Levites who are to do the work at the tent of meeting and bear the responsibility for any offenses they commit against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the Lord. That is why I said concerning them: ‘They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.

This scripture is pretty crystal clear. Yes the Levites owned land outside of Israel. Yes they were able to perform other occupations. You are using that argument completely out of context though. Their primary duty was to be in service to God.


As for the ''no scripture on 10%'', are you being serious?
Click to expand...


It's well documented that the Levites worked about 5 to 10 days a year at the temple.
But if you're unable to research this yourself, consider that Levites made up approximately one-twelfth of the population; yet you contend one-twelfth of the population worked at the Temple?

Levites were given cities and suburbs, they were not allowed to own land like the other tribes; read about this in the book of Numbers; you've even quoted some of it yourself...
God was to be their inheritance, and this is why they were given the Tithe, along with their service, because they had no land inheritance.

What I said was:
There is no biblical evidence that anyone gave 10% of their income. This is a lie perpetuated by modern pastors.
People were only to tithe on the tenth animal born to a flock, and a tenth of the fruit of the land (crops).
This was appropriate compensation for Levites who were restricted in the land they could own.

Stone masons, fishermen, tax collectors, workmen, scribes, soldiers, carpenters and merchants did not tithe.
Only flock owners (not their herders) and land owners (not their workmen) were eligible to tithe, according to the law.


Simon
 
Simon said:
Can anyone tell me why it costs 10% of your income for church 'membership', but only about 1% of your income for gym membership?
Serious question.

Thank you,

Simon
Click to expand...
Some church memberships may cost 10% and perhaps we should reconsider such memberships. But Church membership costs everything we have and that everything must be given back to God who gave it to us rather than to any man.
 
Yes, we should give back to God, but that may not mean giving to pay for a church mortgage and a salaried staff.
It may mean helping out a neighbour, or a relative in need.

My question about the gym, is more of a business question.
A gym can survive and flourish, with building and staff 7 days a week, on about 1% of members incomes.
A church wants 10% of members incomes...

Simon
 
Simon said:
Yes, we should give back to God, but that may not mean giving to pay for a church mortgage and a salaried staff.
It may mean helping out a neighbour, or a relative in need.
Click to expand...

Does it not mean what God says it means at the moment to the person to whom He is speaking? Always following preconceived or pre-defined black and white rules instead of listening to God in the moment often will get people into trouble with the Master. Do we hear His voice?

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:27

My question about the gym, is more of a business question.
A gym can survive and flourish, with building and staff 7 days a week, on about 1% of members incomes.
Click to expand...

If you say so.

A church wants 10% of members incomes...

Simon
Click to expand...

Likely that is true in some places, but if we are with God on His side all of the time, we shouldn't worry about it, should we?
 
Simon said:
1. It's well documented that the Levites worked about 5 to 10 days a year at the temple.
But if you're unable to research this yourself, consider that Levites made up approximately one-twelfth of the population; yet you contend one-twelfth of the population worked at the Temple?

Levites were given cities and suburbs, they were not allowed to own land like the other tribes; read about this in the book of Numbers; you've even quoted some of it yourself...
God was to be their inheritance, and this is why they were given the Tithe, along with their service, because they had no land inheritance.

3. What I said was:
There is no biblical evidence that anyone gave 10% of their income. This is a lie perpetuated by modern pastors.
People were only to tithe on the tenth animal born to a flock, and a tenth of the fruit of the land (crops).
This was appropriate compensation for Levites who were restricted in the land they could own.

4. Stone masons, fishermen, tax collectors, workmen, scribes, soldiers, carpenters and merchants did not tithe.
Only flock owners (not their herders) and land owners (not their workmen) were eligible to tithe, according to the law.


Simon
Click to expand...

1. Levites were the priesthood. Stop harping on those few chosen to work the two weeks a year at the temple.

3. Lev 27:30 ''Every tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land (money) or of the fruit of the trees'',

4. Seems kind of insanely unfair to demand and threaten farmers with a tithe and not others... wouldn't you say? Produce is also ambigious.
 
I think some greedy pastors or false shepherds (i.e wolves) have distorted what the tithe is and placed a burden thats unnecessary on church members, if you belong to a church like this, talk to the pastor or leave.

Its not wrong to give money but for those of us who dont have much of it, to be asked money all the time by those who are rich already is crazy.

God never asks our money. he wants all of us. Jesus made an example of a widow and her mite because she gave..All of her LIVING. He wants our lives. We are living sacrifices. It doesnt matter how much we earn, what our earnings are is not importsnt to God. He doesnt put a price on us according to how much salary we get. We are all precious to Him.


Yes pay your taxes...unfortunately taxes are a fact of life and when you work in most economic systems you have to pay anyway. Sometimes taxes are more than 10% and I certainly dont blame people for resenting paying more esp when tax collectors, as it was then and still is now, can be so greedy and ask for more and spend it on themselves instead of what its meant for. Jesus had harsh words with greedy people like this!!!

I do think its a real church if you pray to go.
Its a false church if you need to pay to go. Keep the wolf from the door. And dont let them in the church. Its obvious what they are about.
 
@Simon
You spoke
(There are loads of things wrong with tithing. You clearly have not read the thread or you may have at least addressed some of the issues instead of offering clichéd... I'll stop here.)

If you your self are against God's Tithe then that's between you and the Father.

Why do you try to influence others to your own personal belief on tithing?

The views you have shown do not line up with scripture nor any church I have ever been a part of.

It's easy to create flow charts in your own thinking but it's another thing to know how the Father has directed His Own Servant to handle the Tithe and offerings.

I pray that the Father would grant you the gift of repentance and you humbly seek the Father and gain wisdom and understanding in the things of God. In the Name of Jesus I pray.
Amen!
God Bless
Jim
 
1. Levites were the priesthood. Stop harping on those few chosen to work the two weeks a year at the temple.
1. Priests were a sub-group chosen from among the Levites, the Kohanim. Very few Levites were even eligible to be priests because they were not descended from Aaron.
Also, Jesus did away with the priestly class (who were robbing God) and made us all priests. Perhaps you should send your tithe to me...

3. Lev 27:30 ''Every tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land (money) or of the fruit of the trees'',
3. If you can translate the words "seed of the land" to "money" then words in the Bible have no meaning and we can just choose what words mean.
OT law did not allow money to be tithed. If you lived far away from the temple you were allowed to convert your crops or flocks into money, but then had to convert the money back into crops/flocks when you arrived.

4. Seems kind of insanely unfair to demand and threaten farmers with a tithe and not others... wouldn't you say? Produce is also ambigious.
4. It was more 'fair' than a straight 10% tithe for all, the flocks and crops provision burdened wealthier land owners and flock owners not their workers.
It was also because the land of Israel was a God given inheritance, not money.

If you your self are against God's Tithe then that's between you and the Father.
Why do you try to influence others to your own personal belief on tithing?
I you believe we should not try to influence others with our beliefs why are you posting here and trying to influence others?

Simon
 
Simon said:
1. Levites were the priesthood. Stop harping on those few chosen to work the two weeks a year at the temple.
1. Priests were a sub-group chosen from among the Levites, the Kohanim. Very few Levites were even eligible to be priests because they were not descended from Aaron.
Also, Jesus did away with the priestly class (who were robbing God) and made us all priests. Perhaps you should send your tithe to me...

3. Lev 27:30 ''Every tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land (money) or of the fruit of the trees'',
3. If you can translate the words "seed of the land" to "money" then words in the Bible have no meaning and we can just choose what words mean.
OT law did not allow money to be tithed. If you lived far away from the temple you were allowed to convert your crops or flocks into money, but then had to convert the money back into crops/flocks when you arrived.

4. Seems kind of insanely unfair to demand and threaten farmers with a tithe and not others... wouldn't you say? Produce is also ambigious.
4. It was more 'fair' than a straight 10% tithe for all, the flocks and crops provision burdened wealthier land owners and flock owners not their workers.
It was also because the land of Israel was a God given inheritance, not money.

If you your self are against God's Tithe then that's between you and the Father.
Why do you try to influence others to your own personal belief on tithing?
I you believe we should not try to influence others with our beliefs why are you posting here and trying to influence others?

Simon
Click to expand...

Brother Simon,
I pray that you do some thorough research on the "Tithe" both new and old Testament.

Your reasoning does not match scripture 100 percent.

There is a difference between sharing what one believes and pushing personal beliefs in a forum. One is done in a Godly Spirit in which the Holy Spirit Can Work and the other one is done in the flesh and causes strife which brings all sorts of evil.

Blessings
W4F
 
2 Corinthians 9:7
You must each decide in your heart how much to give. And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure. "For God loves a person who gives cheerfully."
 
Greetings Friends,
There seems to be a lot of confusion about Biblical Giving and the Tithe.

Tithing was around from the beginning, even before the law of Moses.
Being redeemed from the curse of the law or not being under the law Does Not Excuse, Throw out or destroy the Tithe.
The tithe has Not Ever been apart of the law.

Now with that said, I am going to clear the air as they say and Distinguish the Different Biblical Giving.

1. Tithe
2. Offerings
3. First Fruits
4. Alms

1. Tithe has and always will be 10 percent of your earnings.
The tithe carries a different promise with it. Malachi 3:10-12

2. Offerings are an additional form of giving and have nothing to do with the tithe.

Offerings carry different promise all together separate from the Tithe Promise.
Such As Luke 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Scriptures such as 2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

This Does Not Say Anything about Taking away the tithe nor Does it Say It is Ok to Determine if you want to give 10 percent or not.

This is Dealing With Offerings
However........Giving Tithe out of duty or a heart grumbling is Not Acceptable either.

3. First Fruits.
This is Not the tithe as many believe
No the First Fruits are to be Given Once A Year. It is of your Increase.

Example.
Starting January 1st you are getting a 1 dollar an hour Raise.
So on a given 40 hour work week you would now be making 40 dollars more each paycheck.
First Fruit is simply taking the First Extra 40 Dollars (just once) and Adding it with your giving that week.
This does not cancel out your tithe.

Folks act like this is too much.
Let's think about this for a moment,
For the prior 52 weeks you lived with out the extra 40 dollars a week.
So why would one more week hurt you?

The next 51 weeks you keep the 40 extra dollars each week.
The thing I want you to see is this.
Do You Love and Respect God so much that You Will Keep Him First in your life including Your Finances.

If you think God does Not Notice.....
You are not thinking correctly.

4. Alms....
This is totally separate from the other three and Is The Only One You Are Giving To Man. The other three are unto God.

Example giving to some one in need.
Helping out some one etc.

Matthew 6:3
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

This is the only Giving where God tells us to keep it quiet and do not make a big show of it.
It's not about the giver but Protecting the ones in need. Why draw attention to them or their need.

This is only a simple example of True Biblical Giving. One can dig deep into this.

I pray this has helped some and brought a clearer understanding of True Biblical Giving.

Blessings
W4F
 
Wired 4 Fishen said:
Brother Simon,
I pray that you do some thorough research on the "Tithe" both new and old Testament.

Your reasoning does not match scripture 100 percent.

There is a difference between sharing what one believes and pushing personal beliefs in a forum. One is done in a Godly Spirit in which the Holy Spirit Can Work and the other one is done in the flesh and causes strife which brings all sorts of evil.

Blessings
W4F
Click to expand...

Dear W4F,

I find it interesting that you have not reprimanded other people on this thread who have 'pushed their pro-tithing personal beliefs'.
It makes it seem like your true agenda is to muzzle my point of view...

Peace,
Simon
 
Simon said:
1. Levites were the priesthood. Stop harping on those few chosen to work the two weeks a year at the temple.
1. Priests were a sub-group chosen from among the Levites, the Kohanim. Very few Levites were even eligible to be priests because they were not descended from Aaron.
Also, Jesus did away with the priestly class (who were robbing God) and made us all priests. Perhaps you should send your tithe to me...

3. Lev 27:30 ''Every tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land (money) or of the fruit of the trees'',
3. If you can translate the words "seed of the land" to "money" then words in the Bible have no meaning and we can just choose what words mean.
OT law did not allow money to be tithed. If you lived far away from the temple you were allowed to convert your crops or flocks into money, but then had to convert the money back into crops/flocks when you arrived.

4. Seems kind of insanely unfair to demand and threaten farmers with a tithe and not others... wouldn't you say? Produce is also ambigious.
4. It was more 'fair' than a straight 10% tithe for all, the flocks and crops provision burdened wealthier land owners and flock owners not their workers.
It was also because the land of Israel was a God given inheritance, not money.

If you your self are against God's Tithe then that's between you and the Father.
Why do you try to influence others to your own personal belief on tithing?
I you believe we should not try to influence others with our beliefs why are you posting here and trying to influence others?

Simon
Click to expand...
Simon, you are making good arguments. I feel like I need to read up on all this again :wink:.

The last point was not a quote from me by the way.
 
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