Is 'Free Will' really free will? and if not??

[PloughBoy]

We must also remember there are more that we call “nominal Christians” they out number the true “born from above” in other words “born of God” , adopted of God, purchase and own by God, purchase by the blood of Jesus. We are own by Him and not ourselves , bond slaves. Since, purchase, sealed, and nothing can take us out of His hands and no one can own us anymore. Now if we run away , He the Good ,Shepherd will leave the 99 and come and get us and bring us back to the fold. He promise to never leave nor forsake us because we belong to Him and not ourselves. He forever sitting on the right hand of the Father making intercession For HIS Own. You cannot run away from the Master your salvation has been purchase. Purchase not by a Bulls blood , a heifer’s blood, or a Ram in a bush, it was Jesus’s blood, the Lamb of God. That atonement stands. You have been purchased! You are sealed. Nominal Christian are not.

 

[Samson2020]

If we have faith it is only because God has given that to us but not to all yet. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through FAITH; and THAT NOT of yourselves it is the gift of GOD. The ability to believe comes from the Father. Those who do believe have this faith which is to say they have received it from the Father before others. In an earlier post by Ploughboy he quotes "no man can come to the son except the Father call him" if Jesus' words are true then my will has nothing to do with it. I can only receive what God has for me at that time. The thing is that Free will is used as a tool to condemn the sinner (i.e. the person whom has not been called yet) because that person still has a job to carry out as a sinner. Think about what Jesus said to Peter in the forgiving 7 times 70.
In order to become more like your Father which is in heaven you are commanded to forgive period. Without the sin imposed against you you could not forgive and therefore not become more like your Father (mature). So even sin has its purpose on Earth. If sin had no purpose it wouldn't exist, indeed anything that God has created has meaning for all of us or he wouldn't have made it. And those who sin are simply vessels to dishonor for now and if they knew what we know they would not sin because they would have been moved from a place of condemnation to salvation (received FAITH) in which they would then be the receivers of sin so that they could begin their forgiving in order to become more like their Father and begin the maturation process. To reflect on the sinner as having done the sin willfully is correct as they are driven to do what they do, but Jesus knowing this allowed him to simply say "Father FORGIVE them for they know NOT what they do. Without the vessels to dishonor he would not have been crucified and we would not be having this discussion. Even your Bible says that had they known who he was they would not have done it. But as even Jesus tells us "not my will but your will be done" says explicitly that it was GOD that had him crucified using the hands of sinners. Some day you will be faced with the reality that every day of your life was predetermined by the Father and everything you ever went through or go through was by his design and at that moment that reality hits you your gonna have to say I forgive you Father because even though it was brutal, painful etc... it was designed to bring me to a level of understanding that only the experience could bring. Why else create the classroom (EARTH) but to teach the children.

And as a side note when we condemn someone for not being a believer we do them an injustice because GOD has not given them the faith to believe yet.
But in time he will. Therefore be not deceived that you chose him and they did not and condemn yourself with (SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS). This is so important that it is an overcomer issue discussed in the letters to the 7 churches in the book of Revelation and has a reward or a consequence.

 

[Samson2020]

For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive. But EVERY man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christs at his coming.

In short your "Hope that many will" is addressed by that verse above and its not many its ALL.

 

[PloughBoy]

So in All, means all of those that are “In Christ”. Your quote “For as in Adam ALL die, Even so IN Christ ALL shall be made Alive.” Once saved always saved. He will saved to the fullest, He will birth that child to the fullness!

 

[Samson2020]

Consider this Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam and original sin) judgement came upon ALL men to condemnation (GODS JUDGEMENT OR CHOICE); even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus Christ) THE FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN

 

[Samson2020]

unto justification of life (AGAIN GODS JUDGEMENT OR CHOICE)

 

[Samson2020]

As we see in that last verse God decided to condemn ALL men based on the original transgression, but decided to justify the same ALL men because of the sacrifice of the son. Our free will had nothing to do with his judgements because we were not even born in the flesh yet. The condemnation was the separation of God from man and man falling into a state of mind that was carnal seeing itself as its own god (nothing higher), this mind passes from father to children throughout time so that all are born carnally and separate from GOD. This is by design so that he may have mercy on ALL and disallow anyone from saying that their salvation (and I really wish those who are saved now really understood the breadth and depth of that) was by their own works. The only person ever born of a woman that did not possess a carnal mind was Jesus simply because his Father was GOD and could not give him a carnal mind because he did not have a carnal mind; however in the garden Jesus took upon him this mind as is evidenced by the rebuke of Peter for suggesting he not be crucified, then just hours later he was praying to the father to "remove this cup from me " it was the same request. SELF PRESERVATION a true sign of a carnal mind. Jesus had even said to peter get thee behind me satan for the suggestion, Then he maakes the request to the Father himself. In taking the carnal mind he experentially went through for a short time exactly what we have gone through for decades so that he could make intercession for us knowing from what condition we come from.
PS when I say (GOD decided) it was predetermined before the world was formed that this is the way it was going to workout, it wasn't random or after the fact. He was just following his own original PLAN.

There is a fantastic way of looking at this by interchanging words. In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God.
In the beginning was the PLAN, and the PLAN was with God and the PLAN was God.
The plan is to make GODS (albeit all of them subject to JESUS CHRIST and the FATHER) Jesus Christ being the first of these new Gods. would you agree that in old testament times GOD said over and over that there was no other GOD besides him? But after Jesus Christ's glorification the Father then says what? O GOD THY THRONE IS FOREVER!! speaking to his first born SON. A NEW SPIRITUAL SON that is to be the pattern for us all and was sacrificed in the flesh for us all that some day we could ALL be together again with one mind and incorruptible. I hope this helps!!

 

[Samson2020]

Do not shy away nor be afraid of every gift of the Father; After all perfect love hath no fear. So if you understand the perfect love of GOD you will understand his intentions toward you and everyone else. Didn't say it was easy on the mind at first but it will grow in you.
And with careful consideration you will have pity on the sinner knowing why they are in that fallen state, so that you may be matured!! This helps keep SELF righteousness away and stops you from pointing your finger at anyone ever again for not "accepting" Jesus Christ. Its only a matter of TIME and ALL will come.

 

[Sue D.]

As we see in that last verse God decided to condemn ALL men based on the original transgression, but decided to justify the same ALL men because of the sacrifice of the son. Our free will had nothing to do with his judgements because we were not even born in the flesh yet. The condemnation was the separation of God from man and man falling into a state of mind that was carnal seeing itself as its own god (nothing higher), this mind passes from father to children throughout time so that all are born carnally and separate from GOD. This is by design so that he may have mercy on ALL and disallow anyone from saying that their salvation (and I really wish those who are saved now really understood the breadth and depth of that) was by their own works. The only person ever born of a woman that did not possess a carnal mind was Jesus simply because his Father was GOD and could not give him a carnal mind because he did not have a carnal mind; however in the garden Jesus took upon him this mind as is evidenced by the rebuke of Peter for suggesting he not be crucified, then just hours later he was praying to the father to "remove this cup from me " it was the same request. SELF PRESERVATION a true sign of a carnal mind. Jesus had even said to peter get thee behind me satan for the suggestion, Then he maakes the request to the Father himself. In taking the carnal mind he experentially went through for a short time exactly what we have gone through for decades so that he could make intercession for us knowing from what condition we come from.
PS when I say (GOD decided) it was predetermined before the world was formed that this is the way it was going to workout, it wasn't random or after the fact. He was just following his own original PLAN.

There is a fantastic way of looking at this by interchanging words. In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God.
In the beginning was the PLAN, and the PLAN was with God and the PLAN was God.
The plan is to make GODS (albeit all of them subject to JESUS CHRIST and the FATHER) Jesus Christ being the first of these new Gods. would you agree that in old testament times GOD said over and over that there was no other GOD besides him? But after Jesus Christ's glorification the Father then says what? O GOD THY THRONE IS FOREVER!! speaking to his first born SON. A NEW SPIRITUAL SON that is to be the pattern for us all and was sacrificed in the flesh for us all that some day we could ALL be together again with one mind and incorruptible. I hope this helps!!

Ahhh -- No -- to your last paragraph. There has Never been any plan to make Gods -- Jesus Christ was Not the 1st of these new Gods.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- the 2nd part of the Godhead.

Only new believers become sons and daughters of God -- which is only possible through the death, burial and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[Samson2020]

Then tell me what exactly is Gods plan for you? What shall you become within your existence in the heavenly realm?

 

[Samson2020]

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing MANY SONS UNTO GLORY, to make the captain of their salvation PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERINGS.
Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the FLESH.

If Jesus was a part of the God head all along then why did GOD his Father in the flesh decide that he needed to be PERFECTED through sufferings, prior to his GLORIFICATION?

And in bringing MANY SONS UNTO GLORY, "For he than sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are ALL of ONE: for which cause HE is not ashamed to call them BRETHERN.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, EVEN AS I OVERCAME, AND AM SET DOWN WITH MY FATHER IN HIS THRONE.
SOU

Jesus was just a man until his baptism. At that moment He became Jesus Christ.

 

[Samson2020]

Sounds like the same throne. His Fathers throne that he sets in he then gives place for the overcomers to sit in?
Why was it necessary for him to overcome in order to be allowed to sit in his fathers throne if he was already part of the Godhead?

 

[Sue D.]

God's plan for me ? well -- I've accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior -- which means I'm a daughter of God. And God Does have things He has for me to do while here on this earth. Just as He has a plan for Each of His children.

Believers do Not become part of the God head.

The Godhead = God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son and the Holy Spirit.

God is Spirit -- no biological children. To have biological children God would have had to have a wife to have children with. But that's not in Scripture.

Scripture gives 'us' the Godhead.

But I see where it Could sound confusing. Jesus Christ being the Son of God. And born-again believers becoming sons and daughters of God. But 'we' never become deity.

In the heavenly realm -- I will have a glorified body.

Jesus Christ , the Son of God --Did come to this world -- born of a virgin with an Earthly ministry to point mankind to the Father in heaven.

I'm just reading your other posts.

 

[Sue D.]

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing MANY SONS UNTO GLORY, to make the captain of their salvation PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERINGS.
Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the FLESH.

If Jesus was a part of the God head all along then why did GOD his Father in the flesh decide that he needed to be PERFECTED through sufferings, prior to his GLORIFICATION?

And in bringing MANY SONS UNTO GLORY, "For he than sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are ALL of ONE: for which cause HE is not ashamed to call them BRETHERN.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, EVEN AS I OVERCAME, AND AM SET DOWN WITH MY FATHER IN HIS THRONE.
SOU

Jesus was just a man until his baptism. At that moment He became Jesus Christ.

What's the passage for that. Book - chapter so I can see the context.

 

[Samson2020]

HEBREWS 2:10

 

[Sue D.]

Sounds like the same throne. His Fathers throne that he sets in he then gives place for the overcomers to sit in?
Why was it necessary for him to overcome in order to be allowed to sit in his fathers throne if he was already part of the Godhead?

Jesus Christ earned a special place when He ascended back up to heaven -- at the right hand of God the Father. Because He willingly died on the cross for our sins. Jesus Christ was here as immanuel = God with us.

In the Old Testament -- Isaiah 7:14 -- " Therefore the Lord, Himself, will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel." Literally meaning 'God with us'. And Matthew 1:21 - 24
"And she wil bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins. vs 22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying : vs 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, Which is translated, "God with us."

After the death, burial and bodily resurrection -- Acts 1 :9 "Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, he was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight vs 10 ..... two men stood by them in white apparel...
"Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing into heaven? this same Jesus , who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

Jesus Christ was Not being 'perfect' by going to the cross in our place -- and that is what He Was doing -- as deity -- He was taking our sins upon Himself and dying with them. He went to hell in our place and rose again. The only reason that That would make a difference is that He was / still is Deity. If any of Us died on a cross, it wouldn't make any difference. We'd still be dead in our sins. But Jesus Christ was the Perfect Lamb of God. the perfect sacrifice -- He became 100 % man and was still 100% deity.

 

[Sue D.]

Okay -- Hebrew 2:10 -- "For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. "

One thing I'm noticing -- 'in bringing many sons to glory' -- small 's' are people. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Capital 'S'. Capital 'S' signifies deity.

Does that make sense to you?

And I saw I miss-typed earlier -- "Jesus Christ was Not being -- should have been "perfectED" not 'perfect' -- by going to the cross in our place. It should have read "Jesus Christ was Not being 'perfected' by going to the cross in our place. "

that's why He came to earth in the first place. He knew what He was going to have to endure in His being beaten within an inch of His life and on the cross. He was going to be taking the sins of this world on Himself. And God the Father would be taking His eyes off of Him. And then He would be dying, in our place, with our sins. He would go to hell -- in our place -- and rise again from the dead. For us. so Now - No one has to die in their own sins. We CAN accept God's gift of salvation -- accept Christ as our Personal Lord and Savior -- thank Him for His gift. That is a heart-belief / acceptance. Jesus Christ did all that was necessary for our salvation on the cross.

Does all of 'this' make sense to you.

 

[Samson2020]

"Behold the Virgin shall CONCEIVE and bare a son." How is it that her son was to be of the lineage of David unless GOD used one of her eggs and fertilized it?
I'm only saying that the genetic material necessary to form a zygote in the womb was deposited into one of her eggs. And as this genetic material was from the Father it could not pass a carnal mind to the child which is why he remained sinless his entire life. But when he took to himself our sin he took the carnal mind as evidenced by his asking the Father to "remove this cup from me" which is exactly what he had just hours earlier rebuked Peter for suggesting, even saying to him "get thee behind me Satan for thou lovest not the things that be of GOD."
All i'm saying at this time is that he was born a flesh man and was the Son of God because that masculine genetic material was from the Father, but he was also the SON OF MAN simply because GOD used one of her eggs to produce the body that he existed in.

 

[Samson2020]

So your saying that the things that he suffered in order to perfect him as HEBREWS 2:10 specifically states is a LIE?

 

[Samson2020]

I can make sense of the fact that your twisting scripture to fit your narrative.