Is God considered a "just God" if he created man knowing that man would fall?

[KingJ]

I believe God did create Lucifer knowing he would fall even though there is no salvation for angels. Angels were not given the right to obey or not obey Even though they had the ability not obey. only man was given the right to choose between life or death.

If God created hell, a place of eternal torment for the wicked + God created a being (Lucifer) who He knew from day one would choose to be sold out to a love of what is evil, how is God just?

There is absolutely no way to defend God as just if the above two items are true. One has to be false for Him to be just. 1 + 1 = 2.

Hell is a fact, Him being just is a fact, thus the item that needs to be re-visited is His omniscience (knowing from day one that Lucifer would be evil).

As I explain here Free will, I propose that the only logical belief is that God limits His omniscience to uphold being good.

-------------------------------------------

We are created just beneath the angels Psalm 8:5. We are intelligent beings who know right and wrong just as they do Gen 3:22. There is no partiality in God Acts 10:34. We are not ''more'' favored in that we have Jesus.

God chose mankind to be sons and daughters in His household. For that, a blood covenant with a creation was needed. Jesus and the cross was thus part and parcel of our creation.

Make no mistake, if Jesus did not die, it would not mean that all be damned to hell.

Also, don't for one second think that only the fallen angels are guilty of sin. We will judge angels in heaven oneday 1 Cor 6:3. All humans and angels sin. Only God is good Mark 10:18.

God distinguishes between angels and humans that are sold out to a love of what is evil from those who are not. With humans, we can clearly see a difference between those who are able to truthfully repent of their sins from those who do not. Jesus is 'NOT' a get out of jail free card for humans. People in the OT got themselves into Abrahams bosom by repenting of their sins Psalm 51:17. Jesus gifts those who repent of their sins with eternal life / reconciliation with God as their father.

----------------------------------------

You need to properly think on this topic Curtis. I feel the statement you made here implies God is evil. God is as good as He is great. He does not know which angels or humans will be completely sold out to a love of what is evil. If He does, since a hell of eternal torment exists for both, He would be 100% unjust and evil.

 

[Curtis]

If God created hell, a place of eternal torment for the wicked + God created a being (Lucifer) who He knew from day one would choose to be sold out to a love of what is evil, how is God just?

There is absolutely no way to defend God as just if the above two items are true. One has to be false for Him to be just. 1 + 1 = 2.

Hell is a fact, Him being just is a fact, thus the item that needs to be re-visited is His omniscience (knowing from day one that Lucifer would be evil).

As I explain here Free will, I propose that the only logical belief is that God limits His omniscience to uphold being good.

-------------------------------------------

We are created just beneath the angels Psalm 8:5. We are intelligent beings who know right and wrong just as they do Gen 3:22. There is no partiality in God Acts 10:34. We are not ''more'' favored in that we have Jesus.

God chose mankind to be sons and daughters in His household. For that, a blood covenant with a creation was needed. Jesus and the cross was thus part and parcel of our creation.

Make no mistake, if Jesus did not die, it would not mean that all be damned to hell.

Also, don't for one second think that only the fallen angels are guilty of sin. We will judge angels in heaven oneday 1 Cor 6:3. All humans and angels sin. Only God is good Mark 10:18.

God distinguishes between angels and humans that are sold out to a love of what is evil from those who are not. With humans, we can clearly see a difference between those who are able to truthfully repent of their sins from those who do not. Jesus is 'NOT' a get out of jail free card for humans. People in the OT got themselves into Abrahams bosom by repenting of their sins Psalm 51:17. Jesus gifts those who repent of their sins with eternal life / reconciliation with God as their father.

----------------------------------------

You need to properly think on this topic Curtis. I feel the statement you made here implies God is evil. God is as good as He is great. He does not know which angels or humans will be completely sold out to a love of what is evil. If He does, since a hell of eternal torment exists for both, He would be 100% unjust and evil.

Sorry I disagree with you as God knows all things that will happen before they happen, if not then that God you speak of is not the God of the Bible.

 

[KingJ]

Sorry I disagree with you as God knows all things that will happen before they happen, if not then that God you speak of is not the God of the Bible.

God does not have to know all things before they happen to be God. That is a very ignorant statement.

Your understanding of God is restricted to a dictionary understanding of the word 'omniscient'. You cannot believe in true free will if you hold to this view of omniscience with God.

I have really tried to simplify the equation for you. Please understand the following, it is really a simple equation. You show me where it is incorrect. You cannot state 'God is just' when the facts you present show otherwise. That is naivety and potential false teaching.

1 = God is the creator of all
2 = God is going to send all the wicked to eternal torment
3 = God knows from birth who will go to eternal hell

1 + 2 + 3 = Evil and unjust God.

If you don't agree, better hope you are not the individual born, destined for eternal torment. As long as that is not ''you'' God is just, right?

 

[B-A-C]

1 = God is the creator of all
2 = God is going to send all the wicked to eternal torment
3 = God knows from birth who will go to eternal hell

1 + 2 + 3 = Evil and unjust God.

There is a difference between God knowing what decisions people will make, and Him making the decisions for them.
God doesn't choose for anyone to go to the lake of Fire. They choose that for themselves.

Just because God knew what you were going to do, doesn't mean He made you do it.

 

[KingJ]

There is a difference between God knowing what decisions people will make, and Him making the decisions for them.

If God is the creator and chooses to know from birth who will be created for hell and who will not. No. Your statement is false.

God doesn't choose for anyone to go to the lake of Fire. They choose that for themselves.

Not if God created them for hell.

Just because God knew what you were going to do, doesn't mean He made you do it.

It does. He is the Creator of all.

_______________________

If you worked at Boeing and you knew you did not properly build the wings of an aircraft. The aircraft crashes. You are 100% responsible.

Your statement suggests the pilot is because he happened to fly into a storm.

_____________________

Please go back to my equation in post # 23 and tell me where it is wrong. This is basic math, basic logic. Your statements are illogical. Please better explain them if you think they are not.

 

[twcstp]

God is just.

You'e missed the points already accounted for.

1. "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all".

2. "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love". 1 John 4:16 states, "And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him".

3. “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”

4. "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the Spirit."


You say God is not just, but indeed He is just in all that He does...



“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’