Where in the "Old" Testament, is Jesus, specifically predicted or "foreshadowed?" Many times in the Torah, the Messiah is spoken of. But we are also told that the Messiah will bring world peace to all the nations, Jesus wasn't able to do that, so how is he the Messiah? Please note that I am not trying to bash any belief system, but I am searching for guidance in better worshipping and following the God of Abraham.
Is Jesus truly the Messiah?
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The Unprofitable Servant
Member
It is interesting, a lot of "Christians" will go to Isaiah to point out the characteristics and fulfillment of the Messiah (which are very spot on in describing Jesus as the Christ); but there is only one place specifically in the Old Testament that specifically mentions Messiah by name, which is in Daniel 9:24-27.
There is a lot of backstory and verses to type out but I think for the sake of fatigue on both our parts I'll share this to hopefully give you a better understanding of why the Daniel 9 prophecy about the Messiah is so unique and amazing!
In peace and Love.
oldhermit
Member
John had asked Jesus this same question, “Are You the Expected One, or shall we look for someone else?” In order to appreciate John's question about Jesus it is important that we understand the circumstances out of which this question arises. John is in prison awaiting death.
1. He had seen the heavens open.
2. He had seen the Spirit descend upon Jesus.
3. He had heard the declaration of heaven itself saying, “This is My Beloved Son...”
4. He had heard the teachings of the Master.
5. He had seen the marvelous works of his glory. He saw his miracles.
6. He had seen the words of the prophets fulfilled in this One.
But now, face-to-face with death, John searches himself asking the inevitable question, “Was I right; is this really the one who is the hope of Israel, or did I make a mistake?” John did not want his life to end unassured in himself so he sent his disciples to Jesus with the question, “Are you the One or shall we look for another?”
Jesus' response
1. “Go and report to John what you hear and see: the blind receive sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.” 4-5, Isaiah 35:5-6. Jesus sent John right back to the prophets and told him to consider the things he as seen and heard with what Isaiah had said about him. As Jesus told the Pharisees in John 5:39, “These testify of me.” Thus, Jesus is assuring John that he is the one of whom Isaiah had spoken. There would be no other.
2. “Don't stumble over me.” Isaiah 8:14
This is the danger for some when the time comes to put it all on the line. John was to listen to the prophets, not those who have put him in prison. They had stumbled over Jesus. They had rejected him as the Messiah. Confidence comes from knowing the voice of the prophets.
Was Jesus the Messiah? Jesus said he was, and he confirmed it through his miracles,, his teaching, and the testimony of the prophet Isaiah.
David Young
Member
Most Christians have never read the Tanakh (what Protestant Christians refer to as the Old Testament), or the Septuagint either (the Catholic Old Testament).
The minority who do read it from the perspective of Christianity, expecting to find Jesus as they read.
Few read it from the, even hypothetical, standpoint that it might not be talking about Jesus at all.
If you ask just about any rabbi, they will be more than happy to tell you what any given part of their scriptures, cited as predicting Jesus of Nazareth, means in its original context. However, reading it in its original context should make it obvious anyway.
The minority who do read it from the perspective of Christianity, expecting to find Jesus as they read.
Few read it from the, even hypothetical, standpoint that it might not be talking about Jesus at all.
If you ask just about any rabbi, they will be more than happy to tell you what any given part of their scriptures, cited as predicting Jesus of Nazareth, means in its original context. However, reading it in its original context should make it obvious anyway.
Hello rf9661
I'm curious about something. The Jewish Faith awaits the arrival of the Messiah. However, I've never seen where the prophecies in what we Gentile Christians consider the Old Testament are identified completely concerning Him. Care to share them with us?
As to Jesus not being able to bring world peace. I would answer that as "not yet". :smile: One has to remember that Jesus overcame death, and is still alive and so, it's not that He couldn't bring peace, but as in everything. In His time not ours.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><
I also came across a site you might find interesting concerning "The Way".
HaDerech: Evidence of THE WAY in Acts
Khirbet (=ruins of) Qumran Yesterday, the topic of who penned the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) was explored. Today, a deeper dive will be taken into where the “sect” called The Way (Heb. HaDe…
haderech813935171.wordpress.com
Hello rf9661
I'm curious about something. The Jewish Faith awaits the arrival of the Messiah. However, I've never seen where the prophecies in what we Gentile Christians consider the Old Testament are identified completely concerning Him. Care to share them with us?
As to Jesus not being able to bring world peace. I would answer that as "not yet". :smile: One has to remember that Jesus overcame death, and is still alive and so, it's not that He couldn't bring peace, but as in everything. In His time not ours.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><
I also came across a site you might find interesting concerning "The Way".
HaDerech: Evidence of THE WAY in Acts
Khirbet (=ruins of) Qumran Yesterday, the topic of who penned the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) was explored. Today, a deeper dive will be taken into where the “sect” called The Way (Heb. HaDe…
I appreciate your response.
I actually just recently made a post about this (earlier today) in response to someone else who had a similar question. Here's the link: Do Jews in Israel who don’t believe Jesus as the Messiah read different bible as Christians do?
Hello rf9661,
I appreciate the redirect, but I had already read the thread up to this point where it's at. Which is why I looked to see what else you had posted that I hadn't had a chance to look at and came across this thread. Which left me the question I asked. I know of the prophecies that are acknowledged by Christendom concerning the Messiah, but have yet to see which ones are used by the Jewish faith besides the one used to reject Jesus as being him "peace on earth/overthrow of Romans".
I realize that you are new to the Jewish faith, and it has been told me whether true or not, that many don't actually know what parts of the Tanakh do concern the coming of the Messiah. So, if you don't know that's okay. I was curious to see what you knew concerning them.
Anyway, thanks for getting back to me.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><
KingJ
Loyal
The day Abraham was asked to sacrifice his own son? The Jews are a 'chosen' race for the purpose of a Messiah.
You have to more carefully re-read whatever you are reading that speaks to '''world peace''. How can you have world peace when humans have free will? Over riding free will is wicked. God is not wicked. Jews were expecting the Messiah to set them free from the Romans. But God is impartial Acts 10:34. He planned the Messiah for all mankind John 3:16. To set them free from sin / death / excommunication from God Luke 5:32 [BIBLE]I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance[/BIBLE].
In the millennium when we saints reign with Jesus Rev 20:4-6, there will still not be ''world peace''. The only time there is world peace is when Hades is cast into the lake of fire with all the wicked, devil and fallen angels Rev 20:14.
You need to read the four gospels. They will convince you that Jesus is the Messiah. Look at this verse for example: John 5:18 [BIBLE]Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.[/BIBLE] As they all knew of Isa 9:6.
Conversion to Christianity does not come from any person or your own understanding. People can lead you to the water and your brain's discernment can make you grasp something like Napoleon did on Jesus Napoleon's Testimony to Christ at St. Helena ''I know men, and I tell you that Jesus Christ is not a man, Every thing in Him astonishes me. His Spirit overawes me, and His will confounds me. Between Him and everyone else in the world there is no possible term of comparison. He is truly a being by Himself. His ideas and His sentiments, the truths which He announces, His manner of convincing, are not explained either by human organization or by the nature of things. His birth, and the history of His life; the profundity of His doctrines which grapples the mightiest difficulties, and which is, of those difficulties, the most admirable solution; His gospel, His apparition, His empire, His march across the ages and the realms, everything is to me a prodigy, a mystery insoluble, which plunges me into a reverie from which I cannot escape, a mystery which is there before my eyes, a mystery which I can neither deny nor explain. Here I see nothing human. '' But ultimately, God gives us the revelation of Jesus.
Peter, the only disciple with the faith to walk on water needed it and received it in Matt 16:16-17 ''[BIBLE]flesh and blood has not revealed this to you[/BIBLE]''. Then in 1 Cor 12:3 Paul says ''[BIBLE]nobody can call Jesus Lord, except by the Holy Spirit'[/BIBLE]'.
So, now the issue is, how do we get God to reveal Himself / Jesus to us? We have to be after His heart like David was. We need to listen carefully to these scriptures:
Psalm 51:17 [BIBLE]My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise[/BIBLE].
Matt 16:24 [BIBLE]Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me[/BIBLE].
James 1:27 [BIBLE]Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.[/BIBLE]
...and probably one of the most direct verses: James 4:8 [BIBLE]Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.[/BIBLE]
Brother-Paul
Loyal
The New Testament applies the title kurios (Lord) to Christ (e.g., Heb. 1:10; 1 Pet. 3:15). That Greek term, used in the Septuagint version of the Old Testament to translate "Yahweh," became the short designation of the Lord Jesus Christ. Both the Old Testament and the New also use the term "Lord" to designate "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," as in Peter's quotation of Psalm 2 in Acts 4:26 (NKJV):
Acts 4:26 (NKJV)
The kings of the earth took their stand,
And the rulers were gathered together
Against the LORD and against His Christ.
When we look for Jesus in the OT, we tend initially to look for Him by Name. Jesus is Lord, He is the promised Messiah, He was there in the beginning, He is God.
John 1:1-5 (NKJV)
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Most of the designations of God in the Old Testament refer to the living God with no distinction of the persons of the Trinity. But the Second Person of the Trinity appears as the "Lord" in many passages. John's Gospel shows that this is the case when John quotes Isaiah 6 and adds, "These things said Isaiah, because he saw his glory; and he spake of him" (John 12:41, ASV). Since the quotation is from Isaiah's vision of God's glory in the temple, it is clear that John views that glory of the Lord enthroned as the glory of Christ.
Paul does the same in Ephesians 4:8 when he quotes from Psalm 68:18 (NKJV), applying to Christ's ascension words spoken of the Lord's exaltation:
When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.
The living God revealed in the Old Testament is the triune God. To be sure, the Incarnation brought to light Old Testament teaching that had still been in shadow
Christ is in all scriptures, we do not tend to look for Him, the Psalm below is clear, Isaiah's comments above are not searchable but are there in the OT.
Psalm 110:1 (NKJV)
1 The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."
Hekuran
Faithful Brother in Christ
Theres a very good exploration - with videos here
thebibleproject.com
The Messiah Jesus | BibleProject™
Thanks to the Messiah Jesus, we have been given victory over sin and death. Read on to learn what Messiah means and how Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of the Messiah.
thebibleproject.com
Curtis
Loyal
We must remember that although the four Gospels are in the New Testament, they were written while under the Old Testament.
Peter under a revelation from God the Father declared Jesus to be the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Under the Old testament it was prophesied....
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The "child born" was the body in which the "Son is given" which was Christ the Lord the Messiah!
As others have already mentioned Jesus Christ's soon return to this earth which will result in Jesus setting up his Kingdom that will rein for a thousand years.
Hello @rf9661
To go along with what many of the brothers here have spoken of. As you read the New Testament, you should notice that when the Gospel was spoken of to the different cities, it would always be presented in the context of the Old Testament, or the Scriptures available to the Jewish people of the day. They always started there, and then led through Scripture to the Christ/Messiah that is Jesus, or Yeshua.
It was not presented as stand alone, meaning that they knew it was important to show them that He the Messiah who was prophesied about had come, been killed, and rose again. Doing this through the Scriptures the Jewish people had available to them in that day. Understanding that this message was always presented to the Jews first and then the Gentiles, whether rejected or not. So, it is today, if not as well by those of us who are Gentiles, because we were not brought up in Jewish faith, and don't study the OT probably as much as we should in order to do so.
Remember the Apostles were Jewish, had grown up in the faith, observed all the requirements of the Law, as did Jesus. He understood it better than those who accused Him, and had Him Crucified.
So, just because from your Catholic upbringing you, and probably like most Gentiles, me included, did not or were not taught the OT. Don't judge the truth of it, by Catholicism, because they are usually the least likely to tell you about Jesus, and when they do, it's about how it relates to the "church". It doesn't mean that what happened those many years ago did not happen and wasn't true. Which means each of us, including you, being able to have a personal relationship with Him. Paul talked to (Jews), that had acquired their freedom in Jesus Christ, from the Law, and were attempting to be bound by the Law again. Don't be like them. You will not find freedom there, but only bondage.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><
To go along with what many of the brothers here have spoken of. As you read the New Testament, you should notice that when the Gospel was spoken of to the different cities, it would always be presented in the context of the Old Testament, or the Scriptures available to the Jewish people of the day. They always started there, and then led through Scripture to the Christ/Messiah that is Jesus, or Yeshua.
It was not presented as stand alone, meaning that they knew it was important to show them that He the Messiah who was prophesied about had come, been killed, and rose again. Doing this through the Scriptures the Jewish people had available to them in that day. Understanding that this message was always presented to the Jews first and then the Gentiles, whether rejected or not. So, it is today, if not as well by those of us who are Gentiles, because we were not brought up in Jewish faith, and don't study the OT probably as much as we should in order to do so.
Remember the Apostles were Jewish, had grown up in the faith, observed all the requirements of the Law, as did Jesus. He understood it better than those who accused Him, and had Him Crucified.
So, just because from your Catholic upbringing you, and probably like most Gentiles, me included, did not or were not taught the OT. Don't judge the truth of it, by Catholicism, because they are usually the least likely to tell you about Jesus, and when they do, it's about how it relates to the "church". It doesn't mean that what happened those many years ago did not happen and wasn't true. Which means each of us, including you, being able to have a personal relationship with Him. Paul talked to (Jews), that had acquired their freedom in Jesus Christ, from the Law, and were attempting to be bound by the Law again. Don't be like them. You will not find freedom there, but only bondage.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><