Is selfdefense righteous?

[zeth4500]

Jesus is talking about literal moneybags and knapsacks in Verse 36 so there is no reason to think that he isn't also talking about literal swords. Not to mention that the very fact Simon Peter had a sword at all when the guards came for Jesus suggests that the disciples had swords on them normally, meaning that Jesus did not prohibit swords (means of self defense) before the cutting off of the guard's ear.

ill take it this insinuates the same as the second ammendment not just allowing people to use muskets but also... 80 ton battletanks if they fancy it? very great find.

How can anyone kill you without God's Permission on it?

the jews murdered jesus. there are many other who worked for jesus and god that died
isaiah 54 yes, but we must also do what we can and not rely on god to wipe our ass, to cook potatoes for us. we have hands, so we must use these hands that god has given us- im a welder so im gonna use my knowledge of metallurgy and chemistry to survive the coming judgement day as its the blessing god has given me. everything i know of chemistry and probably metal as well started with one time where god led me to open a drawer in an empty classroom to find a pencil sharperner made out of the unusual metal magnesium, to spark my fascination

the lord will strenghten you with wisdom and ability to defend yourself- we are an extension of god. its with gods permission we are able to learn anything, to craft a knife. for suitable metal to even be available to us. for the knowledge.

there is something Greater for us if we don't "marry". Or rather if we don't enter more of human sinful, wretched existence. As He showed us in Jesus when He never took a human wife for Himself.

sure, but- if you marry then you cannot obviously become a monk and your love for god will be challenged by the love for your wife

matthew 19 is still challenged by what rhema quoted about it being a sin to just give up everything- i guess, it makes sense if you insist on being a monk, but once you have a responsibility in this world you cant just become a bum and rely on the lord to give you everything

as backNforth also explained, even jesus himself had guards that used, by your idea ungodly measures to ensuring jesus' safety
god is in everything. in every atom of mercury. in every atom of carbon, in every little particle of carbon inside a hardened carbon steel blade, if we do whats right then what we use for it is not as significant as the righteousness of the fruit- the conclusion.

 

[Garee]

No need to be sorry, Brother. God is never "sorry" for what He allows to happen with you. Because it is working out His Glory in which you will share. God gave Me a Perfect Marriage in the place of mine. He gave Me Himself as Husband. And He gave Me as His Wife Perfect Children in the place of mine. He gave Me Jesus as My Son. Now I have a Perfect Family Life created by the Perfect Word of God to do exactly this for Him. Where we share in the Joy and Happiness and Purpose and Fulfillment of it. He did say there is something Greater for us if we don't "marry". Or rather if we don't enter more of human sinful, wretched existence. As He showed us in Jesus when He never took a human wife for Himself

He gave you Himself as the Husband. And He gave you as His Wife Perfect Children in the place of yours? Are faithful believers your children. step up to the bar drinks are on the temple or house?

 

[Curtis]

Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,

Rom 13:4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

God has servants that bring about order when evil doers run rampant in society using the sword as God,s wrath upon wrongdoers.

God has delegated authority to defend the good and punish evil, even with capital punishment if required.

 

[MedicBravo]

Not only self-defense but of others who cannot.
Elderly. Babies. Children.
While not optimal, stopping an evil person will include his/her death.
Given the increasing state of evil and evil people in this world we are commanded to fight it.
Last I checked, prayers have not immediately stopped wars, turned bullets into fairy dust, or bombs and missiles into food and medicine for the hungry and sick.

 

[zeth4500]

Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed

thats a bit silly. the authorities will be the ones issuing the mark of the devil, they are the world. james 4:4 a friend to the world is an enemy to god
i must say however that they do punish wrongdoers as well, but it seems its just the lowlevel wrongdoers as they also themselves partake in much sin such as taking confiscated drugs and reselling and really backing up anything the rich are doing

we are commanded to fight it.

fight it, as passively as possible and not take dangerous risks- but be prepared to "fight" it - fight back when necessary

Last I checked, prayers have not immediately stopped wars

you could argue they are pushed on people who are not righteous but naturally the righteous were NEVER in abundance so its just a cycle of .. throwing the weeds into the fire at harvest time and letting them grow again. its a balance of what i take it which concludes at - dont go out and initiate violence but its ok to be fine to overpower someone who comes with violence

 

[MedicBravo]

thats a bit silly. the authorities will be the ones issuing the mark of the devil, they are the world. james 4:4 a friend to the world is an enemy to god
i must say however that they do punish wrongdoers as well, but it seems its just the lowlevel wrongdoers as they also themselves partake in much sin such as taking confiscated drugs and reselling and really backing up anything the rich are doing


fight it, as passively as possible and not take dangerous risks- but be prepared to "fight" it - fight back when necessary


you could argue they are pushed on people who are not righteous but naturally the righteous were NEVER in abundance so its just a cycle of .. throwing the weeds into the fire at harvest time and letting them grow again. its a balance of what i take it which concludes at - dont go out and initiate violence but its ok to be fine to overpower someone who comes with violence

In truth, we're going to be at risk fighting evil.
It is only the action of Good people who'll stop Evil people with the goal of abuse, torture, maiming, and murdering of others.

 

[backNforth]

Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed.

That is a faulty interpretation, and it continues to cause massive hemorrhaging within the body of Christ.

Romans 13 was a favorite passage of Adolph Hitler's, used to justify his brand of submission.

There's only one Lawgiver, and the government is on his shoulders. And this would be GODLY government - not the counterfeit most ignorantly insist we should serve today.

Many stumble with the reality that there is a counterfeit “authority” seeking our obeisance. Satan said, “I will be like the most High” (Isaiah 14:14).

It is Satan’s “higher power” that is behind the merchants, the rich men of the earth, the present temporal “governing authorities."

In reply to the blind opinion that all kings, princes, and governments are "appointed" by God, we will quote the following passage, which is spoken into the ears of Hosea by God Almighty himself. We pray that those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will no longer engage in such opinions:

They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not. (Hosea 8:4)

Also,

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. (Psalm 2:1-3)

There's no Godly ordination there.

When scripture speaks of obeying and submitting ourselves to those who have the rule over us, God’s word is not talking about heathen governments, but those "rulers" within Jesus Christ's assembly. Notice carefully this verse says these rulers (i.e. “them that have the rule over you”) "watch for your souls" (Heb. 13:17). Governments of men cannot govern or watch for anyone's souls, for they can only govern outward acts, not the inward being. But true spiritual leaders do watch for our souls.

Those who "have the rule over you" at Hebrews 13:17 is specifically defined a few verses earlier in Hebrews 13:7, "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation

As we can see, scripture itself defines these "rulers" as those who speak the word of God and have faith. Conversely, secular governments avoid, and often forbid, speaking the word of God within their system through outlawing prayer in their schools and replacing it with such unrighteousness as "the theory of evolution," and by taking down the "Ten Commandments" from their courtrooms. These are not the rulers we are to submit to.

It is noteworthy that modern copyrighted “versions” of The Holy Bible have changed the phrase “higher powers” to merely “governing authorities,” thereby obscuring the necessary distinction between Godly authority and ungodly authority, between God’s kingdom and Satan’s kingdom.

In Romans 13, does verse 1 say, ‘let every soul be subject unto all governments’? Or does it say, "let every soul (including governing authorities such as kings, judges, police, etc.) be subject unto the higher powers"? Who do souls belong to? God says:

Ezekiel 18:4, "Behold, all souls are mine."

And the second part of verse 1 tells us who “the higher powers” is: "...For there is no power but of God".

The souls of the governmental powers belong to God, and they are not the higher powers, the higher powers are held by Christ himself (Matthew 28:18). Is our Lord not the higher power, then, if all power has been committed unto him (John 17:2)? Christ is the governor among the nations (Psalm 22:28). All power over earthly kings has been given unto him (Romans 14:9). All judgment has been given unto him (John 5:22, 27). Notice the separation of power in Romans 13:1. All power comes from, and belongs to, God (Psalm 62:11) and not the one exercising it. And remember that most men, especially those constituting the "governing authorities," usually deny that power given to Jesus (2 Timothy 3:2, 5):

“For men shall be...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

 

[Garee]

That is a faulty interpretation, and it continues to cause massive hemorrhaging within the body of Christ.

Romans 13 was a favorite passage of Adolph Hitler's, used to justify his brand of submission.

There's only one Lawgiver, and the government is on his shoulders. And this would be GODLY government - not the counterfeit most ignorantly insist we should serve today.

Many stumble with the reality that there is a counterfeit “authority” seeking our obeisance. Satan said, “I will be like the most High” (Isaiah 14:14).

It is Satan’s “higher power” that is behind the merchants, the rich men of the earth, the present temporal “governing authorities."

In reply to the blind opinion that all kings, princes, and governments are "appointed" by God, we will quote the following passage, which is spoken into the ears of Hosea by God Almighty himself. We pray that those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will no longer engage in such opinions:

They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not. (Hosea 8:4)

Also,

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. (Psalm 2:1-3)

There's no Godly ordination there.

When scripture speaks of obeying and submitting ourselves to those who have the rule over us, God’s word is not talking about heathen governments, but those "rulers" within Jesus Christ's assembly. Notice carefully this verse says these rulers (i.e. “them that have the rule over you”) "watch for your souls" (Heb. 13:17). Governments of men cannot govern or watch for anyone's souls, for they can only govern outward acts, not the inward being. But true spiritual leaders do watch for our souls.

Those who "have the rule over you" at Hebrews 13:17 is specifically defined a few verses earlier in Hebrews 13:7, "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation

As we can see, scripture itself defines these "rulers" as those who speak the word of God and have faith. Conversely, secular governments avoid, and often forbid, speaking the word of God within their system through outlawing prayer in their schools and replacing it with such unrighteousness as "the theory of evolution," and by taking down the "Ten Commandments" from their courtrooms. These are not the rulers we are to submit to.

It is noteworthy that modern copyrighted “versions” of The Holy Bible have changed the phrase “higher powers” to merely “governing authorities,” thereby obscuring the necessary distinction between Godly authority and ungodly authority, between God’s kingdom and Satan’s kingdom.

In Romans 13, does verse 1 say, ‘let every soul be subject unto all governments’? Or does it say, "let every soul (including governing authorities such as kings, judges, police, etc.) be subject unto the higher powers"? Who do souls belong to? God says:

Ezekiel 18:4, "Behold, all souls are mine."

And the second part of verse 1 tells us who “the higher powers” is: "...For there is no power but of God".

The souls of the governmental powers belong to God, and they are not the higher powers, the higher powers are held by Christ himself (Matthew 28:18). Is our Lord not the higher power, then, if all power has been committed unto him (John 17:2)? Christ is the governor among the nations (Psalm 22:28). All power over earthly kings has been given unto him (Romans 14:9). All judgment has been given unto him (John 5:22, 27). Notice the separation of power in Romans 13:1. All power comes from, and belongs to, God (Psalm 62:11) and not the one exercising it. And remember that most men, especially those constituting the "governing authorities," usually deny that power given to Jesus (2 Timothy 3:2, 5):

“For men shall be...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

The heart of all kings is in the hand of the lord whether they are righteous or not.

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

 

[backNforth]

The heart of all kings is in the hand of the lord whether they are righteous or not.

...which has nothing to do with self-defense OR with the folly of fools who place their trust in Caesar's purported authority instead of God's righteous government OR with the erroneous belief that "whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed."

 

[zeth4500]

It is only the action of Good people who'll stop Evil people

i disagree, jesus will be coming back with a sword after they have been allowed to rule for 2 periods of 42 months
but up until that point they will become more hostile and surely before judgement day it will be forbidden to worship jesus

That is a faulty interpretation, and it continues to cause massive hemorrhaging within the body of Christ.

amen to that, the romans crucified jesus. should he just have stopped? hilarious! the whole idea of christianity is going against anyone evil and oppressive and fight for truth. if you fold you are of the world, and enemy to god james 4:4

governments are "appointed" by God

well, kinda- but only allowed to rule for a while to let the weeds show themselves so they may be taken to the hellfire after the harvest- god created the devil for a reason. its a trap! just like god allowed... was it assyrians to come to babylon and plunder them?

usually deny that power given to Jesus (2 Timothy 3:2, 5):

reminds me of a video where one guy calls for archangel michael and miraculously overpowers 3 cops that are trying to arrest him for nothing and he runs away and theyre just left there confused how
those who take the devil as their boss only do so because its easier and more satisfying to do as the flesh wills, most know theyre in the wrong sinning. why would anyone capable have an inferior boss like the devil

The heart of all kings is in the hand of the lord whether they are righteous or not.

what about the flight logs to epstein island, was it righteous to rape and eat children? i doubt.

 

[Garee]

i disagree, jesus will be coming back with a sword after they have been allowed to rule for 2 periods of 42 months
but up until that point they will become more hostile and surely before judgement day it will be forbidden to worship jesus

Jesus the Son of man in whom the Holy Spirit of Christ dwelt. The son of man Jesus will not be returning others that were here and had the holy Spirit also experienced the invisible work of the Holy Father

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

The return of Christ the Holy Spirit that works in believers was prompted by the first century reformation spoken of in Hebrews 9. Christ restoring order which was given over to the unbelieving Jew in exchange the pagan foundation kings in Isreal. those that walk by sight (no faith)

reminds me of a video where one guy calls for archangel michael and miraculously overpowers 3 cops that are trying to arrest him for nothing and he runs away and theyre just left there confused how
those who take the devil as their boss only do so because its easier and more satisfying to do as the flesh wills, most know theyre in the wrong sinning. why would anyone capable have an inferior boss like the devil

Arch messenger an Apostle like Jesus the Son of man . How beatiful are their feet shod with the gospel of Christ who works in them

Angel a fake word coined in the 10th century. Sounds like the Greek Angelos but has an entirely different understanding.

The meaning of apostles "sent messengers" is taken away and given to a legion of disembodied spirits of the dead. Some call patron saints.

The foundation of Greek and Roman mythology.

The fake creation of shift changers comes when the unredeemed look the temporal things seen and pretend, they are the eternal things of God not seen.

God through the preaching of his gospel demonstrates the power of the gospel raising those who could not walk. . giving them power to leap for joy because of the living powerful words of the gospel.

Those who have no faith that could please God when they see the result of the gospel. . they must attribute it to the works what they call angels.

Calling Barnabus Jupiter the Father of angels. . .disembodied spirit gods men and women gods in the likeness of dying mankind and Paul Mercury the priest sent from the father

Acts14:7;And there they preached the gospel.And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:;The same heard Paul speakthe gospel) who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.;And when the people (unredeemed) saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods (Legion) are come down to us in the likeness of men.;(not the likeness of our invisible Holy F)And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; (father of gods) and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.(preacher)

Copying the true order in Exodus

Exodus 7:1-2And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (Barnabus) to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother( Mercury) shall be thy prophet.; Thou (Barnabus) shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother (Mercury ) shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

Its Christ in us our Emanuel not a legion of lying spirits that some call angels.

 

[MedicBravo]

i disagree, jesus will be coming back with a sword after they have been allowed to rule for 2 periods of 42 months
but up until that point they will become more hostile and surely before judgement day it will be forbidden to worship jesus


amen to that, the romans crucified jesus. should he just have stopped? hilarious! the whole idea of christianity is going against anyone evil and oppressive and fight for truth. if you fold you are of the world, and enemy to god james 4:4


well, kinda- but only allowed to rule for a while to let the weeds show themselves so they may be taken to the hellfire after the harvest- god created the devil for a reason. its a trap! just like god allowed... was it assyrians to come to babylon and plunder them?


reminds me of a video where one guy calls for archangel michael and miraculously overpowers 3 cops that are trying to arrest him for nothing and he runs away and theyre just left there confused how
those who take the devil as their boss only do so because its easier and more satisfying to do as the flesh wills, most know theyre in the wrong sinning. why would anyone capable have an inferior boss like the devil


what about the flight logs to epstein island, was it righteous to rape and eat children? i doubt.

1. Disagree all you want. Last I checked Jesus is NOT back therefore the commandment to defend self and others is legit. My statement was a generalization but only a good person will stop an evil one.
2. Certain things must happen before Jesus returns. SIgn of the end, another topic, will be more frequent, get worse, and will be more visible.
3. The Anti-Christ hasn't appeared nor the full 100% money and global tracking system. Again, Jesus isn't here.

I suggeset all who read here, go to Dr. John Barnett's Youtube page. A pastor for over 40 years and has a lot of good teaching.

 

[zeth4500]

The son of man Jesus will not be returning

im just gonna disagree on that and so will most other christians, revelation might be a worthy read for you - if you disagree with the bible itself then you have a whole other issue

3. The Anti-Christ hasn't appeared nor the full 100% money and global tracking system. Again, Jesus isn't here.

of course not, the antichrist must first rule and that hasnt begun yet - doesnt mean that we dont have to follow the bible up until that point, i mean its kinda the whole point that we have to show that we can act right without our superior staring directly at us in real-time- hm?

 

[MedicBravo]

we dont have to follow the bible up until that point

So, you're in agreement? Of course not. Our superior is always watching.
Common sense: A slap or punch isn't life threatening. Continual abuse and/or attempts to kill someone ARE and one must defend self and others.
If you don't, you don't value the life and body God gave you to throw it away so easily.

 

[Garee]

im just gonna disagree on that and so will most other christians, revelation might be a worthy read for you - if you disagree with the bible itself then you have a whole other issue

I would agree many Christians' to include myself at one time looked to the flesh of the Son of man as if he is God a man as us and there is an infallible fleshly mediator as a umpire called a daysman in Job 9. .One master or Lord that sits between dying mankind and our invisible Holy father calling the balls and strikes.

He warns of those he calls anti christ's another teaching authority other than sola scriptura (Bible) They would try and seduce us we do need dying flesh and blood mankind to teach and not Him. . the one good teaching master

Job 9:32-33;For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.Neither is there any daysman (Pope) betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

The antichrists. . them below

1 John2:26=27;These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. ;But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Be careful what we hear by whom we say we do hear .

Peter the reincarnating Pope is used to define the power of Satan. . the one spirit of the antichrists, the many that were there

The father of lies empowering Peter to rebuke our Holy Father not seen and forbid the Son of man Jesus from doing the will of the Holy Father not seen.

Peter the serial denier was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man Jesus. There is no forgiveness against the unseen Holy Father.

That 33 year window of opportunity is over the body return to dust. When the prophet Jesus said flesh and blood is was in respect to his own dying flesh and blood. He was not saying God is a man as us

The Catholic gospel ends with the misinterpretation of verse 19

Mathew 16:17-19;And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father (Not seen)which is in heaven;And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be first bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be first loosed in heaven.

The lying prophecy

Mathew 16:22-23Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, (The unseen Lord) saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.;But he (the apostle) turned, and (prophesied the words of his Father) said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, (not seen)Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

It would seem to teach walk or understand the Father by faith (invisible) Get behind it as it is written sola scriptura not behind the flesh and blood of Peter the temporal seen.