Once again, you are clearly showing that my point is correct that you have a problem with the bible. You believe the O.T. is harsh and something that is hard for you to accept, so you attempt to reinterpret it to your satisfaction or dismiss parts, our disparage parts of it. :shock:
Deuteronomy 27:16
"Cursed is the man who dishonors his father or his mother." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!"
If you think God is harsh or unjust, you need to humble yourself towards Him and ask Him to reveal things to you, rather than attack the bible.
Exodus 21:15And he who smiteth his father or his mother is certainly put to death.
Sorry, but the Hebrew does not say 'kill' the parent. 'Struck' and kill are two different things and Hebrew is based purely on context. In this context, it does NOT say they were attacking him physically.
So, are you saying it's NOT harsh to kill a 5 year old that struck or cussed at it's parent?
Are you a child abuser? A murderer? Does the bible not speak against such things?
Show me where the bible says its an 'adolescent' or young adult. It makes NO mention of the age of the child whatsoever. So, yes, I consider killing a child harsh for simply cussing or striking a parent IN COMPARISON TO FORGIVENESS. It doesn't mean I don't follow God, it simply means he is 'mysterious' and certain story are confusing in comparison to others.
Likewise, even if they WERE full grown adults....would it be moral to kill adults for calling someone bald??? <table style="width: 463px; height: 264px;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" class="btext" height="20">
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Do you also say it is physically impossible and illogical that a donkey talked to Baalam? Was it impossible for Samson to kill 1000 men with a jawbone? Your statements are suggesting you don't believe in and/or trust all of the bible!!
Yeah, I hate to break it to you, but donkeys don't talk. Nor do snakes.
Do you also hear voices? Does your dog speak to you in English?
If so, perhaps you need a bit of therapy.
Could God place the 'words' in someone's head...sure. But does the bible say that's what happened? NO. Does it say God made the animals talk as to be understood by humans? NO.
Therefore, the scripture actually agrees with my perspective, Not yours. Clearly, the story is
metaphorical.
ONCE AGAIN, you prove that you have serious problems with and skepticism towards the bible. You are saying the bible is illogical.
When has faith ever been logical??
Do you even understand the definition of 'logical'?
Christians must accept that their faith is not logical,
otherwise there would be no need for faith if these things were proven as 100% true for all eyes to see. Your
assumption that the bible is 'logical' actually contradicts the entire NEED for FAITH.
It's obvious you don't like or trust parts of it and that's why you attack it. What bible are you reading, the Skeptic's Annotated Bible? That's a real book (I have read it) and your questions are very similar to their's.
So, are you a skeptic, or do you trust in the veracity, goodness and perfectly revealed word of God in the bible?
Can you be honest enough to answer that question???
I'm not attacking the bible at all, just trying to understand it on a deeper level. Big difference...so you can put aside your hateful accusations. Just because I think certain commandments are harsh (ie killing innocent children, homosexuals, astrologers, etc.) doesn't mean I am 'attacking' it. It just means there are parts of the bible that are metaphorical, mysterious, and that's we need to study further, and why I try to learn more about it.
The fact is, killing people for such petty reasons as calling them bald is NOT moral, nor righteous. Killing people for petty reasons makes you a psychopath...a murderer. You supposed to love your enemy.
Would
you kill someone for calling
YOU bald?
Why, or why not?
Would it even really bother you at all if they did? LOL
So why would it bother a holy man of supreme character??
Or, would it be more moral to forgive them
as what Jesus teaches?
So, to ME, these are legitimate questions to ask as a Christian in trying to understand a DEEPER meaning. Are you claiming it is WRONG to try to understand the deeper meanings of the bible as a Christian??? That would be purely hypocritical.
So, despite your beliefs and my beliefs, the indisputable fact is that Christianity is a learned process. For example, if we had never been told of Jesus, we would have never known him in the sense we do now. (ie a learned process). The bible is no different. We must learn it, and that's what I'm trying to do.
In case you don't already realize this, the reason Elisha called down a curse from heaven on the young adults, was because they were mocking GOD, not just him. And God dealt with it and protected Elisha because they were mocking Him and attacking one of His prophets.
And they were not little angels, they were more than likely threatening Elisha's life.
You should not add things to the bible. It
never ONCE states they threatened his life, nor even attacked him physically.
You are making an ASSUMPTION that is
not supported in scripture.
Had God not interfered, Elisha would probably have been beaten to death by this mob of teens and young adults.
Once again, it NEVER stated such nonsense....and
you are making an ASSUMPTION that is not supported in scripture.
You want to believe that the "children" were little angels selling cookies! Why do you think there was a gang of them? What do gangs do? They swarm victims, they kill, rob, attack, etc.
You are making an ASSUMPTION that is not supported in scripture.
Are you ACTUALLY claiming that ALL GROUPS OF CHILDREN taunt and kill people???
And it wasn't Elisha that called on the bears, it was GOD that sent them. Do you have a problem with the way God does things? If you do, you need to humble yourself and repent, or don't bother calling yourself a Christian if you don't believe the inspired words of the bible, or question it's ethics.
Even if my conclusion on this whole she-bears thing is wrong, it still doesn't change the fact that you and I have different takes on the bible.
I'm not supposed to 'agree' with everything you say...especially when
you add SO MANY assumptions to the scriptures.
LOL!! Wow! You really like to ADD things to the bible that just aren't there....and if I'm not mistaken, the bible clearly warns against that.
Here is the actual verse -2 Kinds 2:<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-9575">23</sup>
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-9576">24</sup> He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-9577">25</sup> And he went on to Mount Carmel and from there returned to Samaria.
Where does it say the children were of young adult age? Sorry, but the Hebrew does not designate them as young adults. Even if they WERE full grown adults, would it be moral to kill adults for calling him bald?
Where does it say they struck him?
Does it say they were rioting on him?
If they WERE rioting, what was their beef with him?
Does it say they were rioting on him?? CLEARLY, NO.
Where does it say they did ANYTHING else but mock his baldness?
Where does it say that they were mocking God? Did they say 'God'?
And CLEARLY it states ELIJAH called for this curse. It was his choice. Did he not also have the option to forgive them?
So, please explain to me WHY it was 'righteous' for a holy man to kill 42 children for simply calling him bald? Do you REALLY think it was moral to kill 42 children for calling him baldy?? Seriously, I want to know.
I'm not 'attacking' the bible...I'm trying to understand it. Big difference.
Do you not think it would be MORE righteous for him to teach them a lesson, give them a second chance, and have the opportunity for them to treat others better as what Jesus taught about FORGIVENESS and second chances? Therefore, its an odd story to me as it clearly forgoes forgiveness....one of the basic Christian virtues.
Also, are you saying that Christians are evil for calling names? Even JESUS himself called people names. So, how is this story an example of what is righteous and moral when the words of Jesus completely give a different moral code of forgiveness??
Clearly, it is a metaphorical story designed to keep little children in line.
You think it is cruel and illogical in places, whereas I believe God is pure, holy and GOOD, and I dare not question His motives and actions.
And if I don't understand fully something in the bible, I take it on faith that the problem is my misunderstanding, not that the bible has flaws or is cruel or bad in some places!
This is a matter of semantics. Are you REALLY claiming the bible does not have verses that seem contradictory and can be confusing to people??
Emphasis mine. The rules in Leviticus, Exodus and elsewhere were laid down by God, so in effect you are now calling God evil !! That is BLASPHEMY !! :secret:
Now you're just making up nonsense. I'm saying that God is mysterious, not evil. So, for the record, those are YOUR words, not mine. All I claim is that God created evil, and allows evil. That is what scripture states plainly.
Emphasis mine. Unfortunately??? You think that something Jesus said was UNFORTUNATE??? You are insulting the Savior and totally wrong in what you say!
Once again, you are trying to make something out of this that its not. I stated it was unfortuante because it can be confusing that in one story, a holy man kills 42 children for a CLEALY petty reason, yet Jesus teaches clear forgiveness....to even LOVE your enemy....and so therefore they can confuse people. That's why we have apologetics AND hermeneutics...to help people understand these things.
