Israel was promised a never ending earthly kingdom?/ The Church is promised a home in heaven.?
- Thread starter Dave M
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The Kreisel
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This forum and those on it, cause me to think of II Peter 3:16:
"As also in All his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrestle with,
as they do also the other scriptures,
unto their own destruction (death)."
"As also in All his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrestle with,
as they do also the other scriptures,
unto their own destruction (death)."
Dave M
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some guy on a christian Board, , but I try to be humble enough to realize I do not know it all, thus the question. I never really herd of this theory before. thought some others could shed some light on it or at least if they herd of it before, Seemed odd to me
Reba1
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God keeps His promises man voids the covenants.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Lev 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
Lev 26:41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
Lev 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
Deu 7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Lev 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
Lev 26:41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
Lev 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
Deu 7:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
Reba1
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Exactly The Hebrews ,Jews, Israelites which ever name did not keep their end of the Covenant. Now today Jew and Gentile alike have the new Covenant. Praise to the Lord God
Jer_31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Heb_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
B-A-C
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Things haven't changed much. Some people still don't keep their covenants with God.
2 Sam 7:16 -- " ...Your throne shall be established forever." That is referring back to the Lord's promise to David -- the Davidic Covenent? that there will always be someone from the seed of David on the throne,
Psa 145:13 " Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and Your dominion endures throughout all generations."
Isa 9:7 "Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom. To order it and establish it with judgement and justice From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this."
Dan 2:44 "And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever."
Luke 1:33 "And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end"
Israel was never very faithful to God. We tend to be the same way. Satan tends to be a good 'distractor' for us.
I would agree with the thread topic heading.
And Everyone -- Jew and Greek come to Christ exactly the same way.
It can be a complicated subject to understand. I typed up the various verses so I they could be seen together.
Dave M
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Dave M
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It seems to me the church is grafted in to the olive tree so we inherit all that is promised by God the Father through Jesus
Are we not all chosen by grace?
A Remnant Chosen by Grace
Romans 11
1 I ask then, did God reject His people? Certainly not! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God did not reject His people, whom He foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says about Elijah, how he appealed to God against Israel:
3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars. I am the only one left, and they are seeking my life as well”a?
4 And what was the divine reply to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”b
5 In the same way, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
6 And if it is by grace, then it is no longer by works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.c
7 What then? What Israel was seeking, it failed to obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8 as it is written:
Seems to me it all about belief no matter your race or skin color, and we are all part of the same olive tree, some by natural choice as Jesus was Jewish, some by adoption, but it all one family under one shepherd.
I am not seeing any distinction when it comes to salvation. The slightest distinction can be made of natural and adopted but that seems fruitless to even look at that. Sure it came to the Jews first but it was Gods plan from the very start to bring salvation to everyone, and it only through belief weather Gentile or Jew. What else is important that we see all this division being talked about between the Jew and church when it was the Jews that established the church in the first place.
22 Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut from a wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into one that is cultivated, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
IF Jesus came to build his Church with the building blocks being Jews why would we keep trying to make them different?
Are we not all chosen by grace?
A Remnant Chosen by Grace
Romans 11
1 I ask then, did God reject His people? Certainly not! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God did not reject His people, whom He foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says about Elijah, how he appealed to God against Israel:
3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars. I am the only one left, and they are seeking my life as well”a?
4 And what was the divine reply to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”b
5 In the same way, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
6 And if it is by grace, then it is no longer by works. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.c
7 What then? What Israel was seeking, it failed to obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8 as it is written:
Seems to me it all about belief no matter your race or skin color, and we are all part of the same olive tree, some by natural choice as Jesus was Jewish, some by adoption, but it all one family under one shepherd.
I am not seeing any distinction when it comes to salvation. The slightest distinction can be made of natural and adopted but that seems fruitless to even look at that. Sure it came to the Jews first but it was Gods plan from the very start to bring salvation to everyone, and it only through belief weather Gentile or Jew. What else is important that we see all this division being talked about between the Jew and church when it was the Jews that established the church in the first place.
22 Take notice, therefore, of the kindness and severity of God: severity to those who fell, but kindness to you, if you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut from a wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into one that is cultivated, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
IF Jesus came to build his Church with the building blocks being Jews why would we keep trying to make them different?
Dave M
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SO the question to me becomes
Does God deal with the saved Jewish people differently then the saved gentile?? I would say no
Does God deal with the Jewish person who does not believe differently then the gentile who does not believe ?? I would say no
Scripture to support this coming sometime in the future
Does God deal with the saved Jewish people differently then the saved gentile?? I would say no
Does God deal with the Jewish person who does not believe differently then the gentile who does not believe ?? I would say no
Scripture to support this coming sometime in the future
Reba1
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The Code of Jewish Law clearly states that a child of a Jewish mother is Jewish, regardless of the father’s lineage (or whatever else may show up in a DNA test), while the child of a non-Jewish mother is not Jewish.1 Matrilineal descent has been a fundamental principle of Torah since the Jewish people came into existence. https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/601092/jewish/Why-Is-Jewishness-Matrilineal.htm
Who were Rahab and Ruth?
Who were Rahab and Ruth?
B-A-C
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Gentiles of course... but now, how do you prove they were on Mary's side?
(It is in the Bible)
Dave M
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This point of view comes from a Dispensationalism theology I am learning. The more I learn about Dispensationalism the more I dis-agree with it, seems to have a lot of followers
off the top of my head Ruth was grandma to King David and a Jew ( seems I might be wrong here) I cheated and looked at Rays post
Rehab was the prostitute that helped the Jewish people by lying about not seeing them, most likely was not a Jew
off the top of my head Ruth was grandma to King David and a Jew ( seems I might be wrong here) I cheated and looked at Rays post
Rehab was the prostitute that helped the Jewish people by lying about not seeing them, most likely was not a Jew
@Dave M -- this morning I came across a passage in Romans 9: 1 - 5 or so. Paul is talking about the Jews / Israel. He's talking about Christ and Israel. To Israel , to whom pertain the adoption.
Tying That to the olive tree?! Christ is the root -- Israel as God's chosen people --have been temporarily grafted out and can be grafted back in. That all born again believers are branches and are to be producing fruit -- growth in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Being faithful in some ministry of some kind.
Does that make sense?
Tying That to the olive tree?! Christ is the root -- Israel as God's chosen people --have been temporarily grafted out and can be grafted back in. That all born again believers are branches and are to be producing fruit -- growth in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Being faithful in some ministry of some kind.
Does that make sense?
