Jesus only?

[B-A-C]

Reading back over literally hundreds of threads I have been a part of here on TJ over the last 5 or 6 years,
I find it amazing how far apart Christians seem to be on many subjects.

Were Gentiles under the law?
Once saved, always saved?
Predestination and free-will?
Can Christians still sin?
Should we still keep the sabbath?
Are Easter and Christmas pagan holidays?
Is baptism required for salvation?
Is homosexuality still a sin?
Do muslims believe in the same God Christians do?
Do the ten commandments still apply?

While the subjects above are interesting, I'm not sure my salvation depends on them.
(Even if water baptism is required, I'm covered there, so it really doesn't affect me much)

Lately I have become more interested in verses in the Bible about those who think they are saved, but really aren't. What makes someone saved? It seems like a basic question with a simple answer, yet I have found at least a dozen answers here on TJ over the years.

The first thing is to make sure you're following the right Jesus.
The Bible talks about false Christs ( Matt 24:23-24; Mark 13:22; )
It talks about false prophets that can lead people astray ( Matt 7:15; Matt 24:11; Matt 24:24; Acts 13:6;
2 Pet 2:1; 1 Jn 4:1; 2 Cor 11:13; etc...)
The Bible also speaks about false doctrines and teachings that can cause people to stray. ( 1 Tim 1:3;
1 Tim 4:1; Matt 15:9; Mark 7:7; etc...)
It speaks of false brethren who sneak into congregations and try to turn others astray ( 2 Cor 11:26; Gal 2:4; Php 4:3; )
The Bible says even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light ( 2 Cor 11:14; )
The Bible tells us to test spirits because they aren't all from God ( 1 Jn 4:1-3; )

Some of the subjects above have been covered in depth here on TJ as well.

But what about those who think they are Christians but truly aren't? The Bible speaks about this also.
It seems the most common verse used for this is in Matt 7.

Matt 7:21; “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
Matt 7:23; And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Obviously, they believed in something, they called him "Lord, Lord", it even says they did miracles "in his name".
So what makes these people different that Jesus would say "I never knew you"?

In Matthew 25:1-13; we see the parable of the ten virgins.
They all believed that they were prepared to meet the bridegroom ( Jesus ).
They all had lamps and appear to be light bearers, but five of them had oil, and five of them didn't.
Again these were people who believed in something, even if it wasn't the right thing. They also called
Jesus "Lord, Lord" in Matt 25:11;
And yet in the very next verse ( Matt 25:12; ) Jesus says "I never knew you."
What makes these five virgins different from the other five virgins who also believed in Jesus?

In Matthew 25:14-30; we see the parable of the talents.
Again I believe this is talking about people who belong to the master.
In Matt 24:14; it says they were "his slaves", these weren't just random people.
It goes on to say he gave them all a certain number of talents to invest for the masters sake.
Now two of the slaves were called "good and faithful servants" ( Matt 25:21; Matt 25:23; )
But one of the slaves was called wicked and lazy ( Matt 25:26; ) and was cast out into the darkness ( Matt 25:30; )
What made him different? Why was he cast out of the masters house?

It seems some churches today preach something called "Jesus only" and preach against something called
"Jesus plus". To me this is partially true, but not totally true.
They say Jesus does it all, some of them even say you had no choice or say in the matter, you
were predestined to be saved before you were born and there's nothing you can do about it.

Well, it's true we are only saved by faith and grace. ( Eph 2:8-9; ) It's also true we have to believe in Jesus.
But is that all that is required? It seems all of the people above believed in Jesus.
In Mark 1:24; and Luke 4:34; we see that even the demons know who Jesus is. Apparently they believe in him.
So why aren't they saved?

But what about after we become believers? Is there anything else required? Is it really Jesus only,
or is obedience and repentance also required? Interestingly enough, some of those who preach "Jesus only"
still preach that you have to repent and obey. Some of these people believe in something called the five sola's.
While I also believe in them, I think they need a new name. The word sola means "alone", how can five things
together be alone? One of the sola's is "Christ alone". But then there are still four other sola's.

I think perhaps I have figured out what all of the believers above who called Jesus "Lord, Lord" but
yet he said he didn't know them had in common. I'll save it for another post in this thread.

 

[B-A-C]

In Matthew 7:15-23 it talks about trees and the fruit they bear.
Some trees bear good fruit, and some trees bear bad fruit. The trees that don't bear good fruit are thrown into the fire. ( Matt 7:19; )
In Luke 13:6-9 we see another parable about a fig tree.
It is very similar to the parable in Matthew. Again we see that if a tree doesn't eventually bear fruit, it is cut down.

In Luke 13:23; someone asked Jesus are just a few going to be saved?
It says many (not just a few) will strive to enter into heaven, but they won't be able to.
In Luke 13:25; once again these people call Jesus "Lord" and ask him to open the gate.
In Luke 13:26; it says we ate and drank in your presence. Obviously they thought they were saved.
But just like the story in Matthew, Jesus answers them in Luke 13:25; "I do not know where you are from".
In the next verse Luke 13:27; Jesus says to them "Depart from me, you evildoers".

What makes these people different from those accepted into the kingdom?

 

[B-A-C]

In Rev 2:4; Jesus says that he has something against this particular church (Ephesus).
Rev 2:5; tells them to repent and go back to doing the things they did at first,
It goes on to say that if you don't, "I will remove your lampstand, unless you repent".
In Rev 2:14; Jesus has 'a few things' against this church (Pergamum).
In Rev 2:16; this church is also told to repent, or else he "will make war against them".

Obviously these are people in churches, believers that believe in something. What makes these churches different
from the churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia? (He has nothing against those two churches)

In Matt 5:13; the Bible talks about the salt of the earth. It goes on to say that some of the salt has become tasteless,
it is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out.

What makes these people different from the good salt?

 

[james1523]

The equivalent of "Jesus only" to believers today would be "Father only" to Christ when He was on Earth.

On baptism - in Matt 3, Jesus would have told John "I don't need to be baptized, it's not about me, it's all about my Father in Heaven".
On going to the cross - Jesus would have said "I don't need to die or do anything, it's not about me, it's all about my Father in Heaven".
On feeding the 5000, Jesus would have said "don't worry about the crowd's hunger, the Father in Heaven who loves them, will provide for their needs".

John 10:30 - it is not Jesus only or the Father only, but "I and the Father".

 

[B-A-C]

Entering in. Is everyone who is in the kingdom of God going to heaven?

Luke 13:24; “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Mark 10:24; The disciples were amazed at His words. But Jesus *answered again and *said to them, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
Acts 14:22; strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.”
Matt 7:21; “Not everyone who calls Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter
Is everyone who believes in Jesus going to heaven?

Matt 5:20; “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven..

Matt 18:3; and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
( Mark 10:15; Luke 18:17; )

Matt 18:8; “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
Matt 18:9; If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
( Mark 9:43-47; )

Matt 19:17; And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Is trying to keep the commandments also required for eternal life?

Matt 19:23; And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 19:24; Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
( Mark 10:23; Mark 10:25; Luke 18:24-25; )

Matt 23:13; “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
Luke 11:52; Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering.”
Is it possible for some people who think they are in the kingdom not to be? Can these people deter other seekers from entering?

Matt 25:21; His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
Matt 25:22; “Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, ‘Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.’
Matt 25:23; His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
Is being faithful not only having faith "in" Jesus, but being faithful "to" Jesus with the talents and responsibilities that he gives us?

John 3:3; Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
John 3:5; Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
What does "born again" mean? Is every believer born again?

Heb 3:10; “Therefore I was angry with this generation, And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they did not know My ways’;
Heb 3:11; As I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’”

Heb 3:12; Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
Heb 3:13; But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14; For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
Can Christians be deceived by sin? Is it true that we are only partakers of Christ if we hold fast.

Heb 3:17; And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18; And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?
Heb 4:1; Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
Heb 4:6; Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
Heb 4:11; Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
Is it possible that disobedience will keep us from entering "his rest"?

Rev 22:14; Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15; Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
Is it possible that some will not be able to enter the gates of eternal rest?

Matt 8:12; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matt 13:47; “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
Matt 13:48; and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.
Matt 13:49; So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
Matt 13:50; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matt 13:40; So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Matt 13:41; The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matt 13:42; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Fish of every kind are in the kingdom, are you a good fish or a bad fish? Do you commit lawlessness?

Matt 18:32; Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
Matt 18:33; Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’
Matt 18:34; And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
Matt 18:35; My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Matt 22:9; Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.’
Matt 22:10; Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
Matt 22:11; “But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
Matt 22:12; and he *said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless.
Matt 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Matt 22:14; For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Like the 5 foolish virgins, not everyone who thinks they are ready for the groom actually are, those who aren't will be cast out.

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Is this only unbelievers? Or is this believers who are still practicing lawlessness?
Matt 7:23; And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:24; Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Have you killed off your old selfish fleshly desires? If not do you really belong to Christ?

Eph 5:3; But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
Eph 5:4; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5; For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

1 Thess 2:12; so that you would walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.

2 Pet 1:9; For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
2 Pet 1:10; Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
2 Pet 1:11; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

 

[james1523]

Entering in. Is everyone who is in the kingdom of God going to heaven?

I want to clarify what is meant by the Kingdom of Heaven/God and what is salvation.

The Kingdom of God is God's rule and reign, with His authority. It has a Heavenly and an Earthly aspect. In Heaven God rules over the angels and does whatever He please. On Earth, God also rules over men, but Satan (and fallen mankind) has usurped His authority. The only place God effectively rules on Earth is in the hearts of His people. That is why we pray for His will be done on Earth as in Heaven. Therefore the church (not a religious organization, but the plurality of believers on the Earth), is God's kingdom on Earth. And in every believer's heart, God's kingdom reigns. Technically, wherever the Holy Spirit dwells (He dwells in our spirits/hearts), there is God's kingdom. In some people, God's kingdom is great (God reigns much), and in other people, God reigns only a little (they haven't given Him full control of their life).

This brings a whole new meaning on what it is to be a Christian.

Nearly everyone in Christianity gets saved because they want to go to a nice place after they die. Sorry if I generalize but that's why I wanted to be saved, I didn't want to go to the nasty place called Hell. That's the kind of (misguided) Gospel which 90% of evangelical Christianity preaches.

But Scripturally, salvation is to enter God's rule and reign and authority in our hearts - His Kingdom.
And by our own free-choice, we can choose to disobey God and remove ourselves from under His authority in our lives.

With this correct meaning of being saved - we can see that salvation is directly linked to how we live our lives (as people living in and under God's kingdom).
This view leaves no room for anyone to "get saved", live however they want, and then enter a nice place called Heaven when they die. Sadly, this is the modern Christian view of salvation.

I agree with your post that whatever we are saved into, we can be thrown out of. Nothing is impossible with God.

However your idea that we get into the kingdom of God first, and then go to Heaven or not, is not strictly true.

Looking carefully at the verses you quoted, not one of them says we go to Heaven. It says we enter the kingdom of Heaven, which is the same as Kingdom of God.

So everyone who is in the kingdom of God is "going to Heaven" (or more correctly, going to the New Jerusalem).
And everyone who is not in the kingdom of God is going to Hell.

There is no one in the kingdom of God, who is not "going to Heaven".

When we are saved, we don't "go" anywhere, we get saved into the kingdom of God/Heaven which is God's rule and reign and authority in our lives.

So where do we go if not Heaven? The Bible teaches that our permanent dwelling place is the New Jerusalem which rests upon (or above) the Earth (see Revelation, particularly the last chapter).

What does living in the kingdom of God look like? It means that the Holy Spirit is driving your life, He is on the throne and in control. Whatever feelings, thoughts and actions you have, these are all guided by the Spirit.
Maybe someone offends you, and you want to hit back at them, but the Spirit in you does not let you. That is the kingdom of God ruling in your heart. His authority and His rule, has prevented you from doing what you want.
This is what a Christian looks like. A Christian is a person under the rule and reign of God. There is no right to free speech or free action for the Christian, - it is not a liberal democracy. Just like Jesus was bound to do what His Father in Heaven wanted, the Christian is bound, like a bond-servant, even a slave, to do the Father's will.

It is easy to see a person who is not living in the kingdom of God. Such a person is a person who is loose in their speech, behavior and attitudes, and seemingly without restraint. They do whatever they want and no one stops them. Whether it is serving much in church leading the worship and doing whatever they like in church, or partying on the town, such a person has not known what it means to live in God's kingdom, if they are not living under the Father's restricting hand.

Before salvation, a person was perhaps making coarse jokes, and had many friends and were popular. They had no problem going out drinking with their friends. But after they are saved something changes. They no longer laugh at the rude jokes, and no longer want to drink. Their friends think there is something wrong with them, they are not like them any more. This is because God has become king in their lives, and they have entered the kingdom of God.

 

[james1523]

Entering in. Is everyone who is in the kingdom of God going to heaven?

Luke 13:24; “Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Mark 10:24; The disciples were amazed at His words. But Jesus *answered again and *said to them, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
Acts 14:22; strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.”
Matt 7:21; “Not everyone who calls Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter
Is everyone who believes in Jesus going to heaven?

Matt 5:20; “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven..

Matt 18:3; and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
( Mark 10:15; Luke 18:17; )

Matt 18:8; “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
Matt 18:9; If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
( Mark 9:43-47; )

Matt 19:17; And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Is trying to keep the commandments also required for eternal life?

Matt 19:23; And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 19:24; Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
( Mark 10:23; Mark 10:25; Luke 18:24-25; )

Matt 23:13; “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
Luke 11:52; Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering.”
Is it possible for some people who think they are in the kingdom not to be? Can these people deter other seekers from entering?

Matt 25:21; His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
Matt 25:22; “Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, ‘Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.’
Matt 25:23; His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’
Is being faithful not only having faith "in" Jesus, but being faithful "to" Jesus with the talents and responsibilities that he gives us?

John 3:3; Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
John 3:5; Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
What does "born again" mean? Is every believer born again?

Heb 3:10; “Therefore I was angry with this generation, And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they did not know My ways’;
Heb 3:11; As I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’”

Heb 3:12; Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
Heb 3:13; But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14; For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
Can Christians be deceived by sin? Is it true that we are only partakers of Christ if we hold fast.

Heb 3:17; And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?
Heb 3:18; And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?
Heb 4:1; Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
Heb 4:6; Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
Heb 4:11; Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
Is it possible that disobedience will keep us from entering "his rest"?

Rev 22:14; Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15; Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
Is it possible that some will not be able to enter the gates of eternal rest?

Matt 8:12; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matt 13:47; “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
Matt 13:48; and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.
Matt 13:49; So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
Matt 13:50; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matt 13:40; So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Matt 13:41; The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matt 13:42; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Fish of every kind are in the kingdom, are you a good fish or a bad fish? Do you commit lawlessness?

Matt 18:32; Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
Matt 18:33; Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’
Matt 18:34; And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
Matt 18:35; My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Matt 22:9; Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.’
Matt 22:10; Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
Matt 22:11; “But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
Matt 22:12; and he *said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?’ And the man was speechless.
Matt 22:13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Matt 22:14; For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Like the 5 foolish virgins, not everyone who thinks they are ready for the groom actually are, those who aren't will be cast out.

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Is this only unbelievers? Or is this believers who are still practicing lawlessness?
Matt 7:23; And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:24; Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Have you killed off your old selfish fleshly desires? If not do you really belong to Christ?

Eph 5:3; But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints;
Eph 5:4; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5; For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

1 Thess 2:12; so that you would walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.

2 Pet 1:9; For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
2 Pet 1:10; Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
2 Pet 1:11; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

All of these great verses you have quoted, prove that salvation is not about us going to a place in the future after we die, but about God's rule and reign in our lives aka the kingdom of God (or kingdom of Heaven).
To enter into eternal life and to inherit eternal life, means to enter into the kingdom and to inherit the kingdom.


Do we know what it means to inherit the kingdom? If kingdom means heaven, inherit heaven, doesn't make sense - how can we obtain God's own dwelling place?
To inherit the kingdom basically means to experience the enjoyment of that kingdom. This is proved by Matt 25:21 which you quoted.
To dwell in the kingdom means to live with a righteousness exceeding the pharisees, and the joy and peace which is resulting from that righteousness.
To inherit the kingdom means to partake and enjoy Christ's 1000 year rule and reign of the Earth. Christ will come to inherit the throne of David and restore the Jewish nation. A wonderful time of righteousness, peace, enjoyment and satisfaction. Christians who do not inherit God's kingdom, due to their wickedness, etc, will miss out on all these things.

Hopefully with this meaning of God's kingdom in mind, to hinder a person entering God's kingdom (as did the lawyers) is not to stop them going to a place called Heaven after they die, but to stop them from experiencing God's rule and reign in their lives, and the righteousness, peace and joy which comes with that.

Such a subtle change of meaning makes all the difference. God desires a group of people living righteously, under His rule and reign and authority, this is what God's church is to Him.
Instead, we have multitudes of people living however they want and not redeeming the time - their goal is a place called Heaven that is sometime in the future.
What God desires is multitudes of people living under His rule and reign at this very moment. Our goal as Christians is to save people into God's kingdom, and to seek and dwell in God's kingdom.

Matt 6:33 says to seek first the kingdom of God. It does not say seek Heaven (or salvation from hell) first.
If we seek God's rule and reign in our lives, His righteousness, first and foremost, He will provide for all our needs.
We must also seek God's rule and reign in the lives of others also - to build His church, He will also provide all our needs.
Ps 37:25 I once was young and now I am old, but I have not seen a righteous person forsaken or his descendants begging for bread.
If we have such a righteousness before God, we will never be forsaken or lacking anything.
This righteousness is not our imputed or imparted righteousness from Christ, it is our own moral righteousness which comes by living under God's rule and reign.
A person cannot believe in Christ and then do whatever they like, and expect God to provide for all their needs. Matt 6:33 directly links our provision and prosperity with how we treat the kingdom of God - His rule, reign and authority in our lives.

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus plus....

I've heard it said Jesus plus anything is wrong. Again, I stress we are talking about two different things.
How you get saved, and how you walk after you are saved.

Some say.. Jesus plus anything is wrong....
Is Jesus plus the Holy Spirit wrong? Jesus said the Holy Spirit couldn't come unless He went away. ( John 16:7; )
Is Jesus plus loving our neighbor wrong?
Is Jesus plus obedience to God wrong?
Is Jesus plus feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, visiting those who are in prison and sick wrong?
Is Jesus plus bearing good fruit wrong?

Now you may say, yes but those things aren't what saves me. Agreed!! 100% agreed.
Yet we see over and over again that those who were saved, were not allowed to enter into heaven because they weren't doing these things after they were saved.

It seems there are Christians who believe all I have to do is get saved and Jesus will take care of the rest.
Why didn't Jesus take care of those who called him Lord and did miracles in his name? ( Matt 7:21-23; )
The answer is in the next three verses. ( Matt 7:24-26; )
Why didn't Jesus take care of the five foolish virgins who thought they were ready to meet the groom? ( Matt 25:1-12; )
Why didn't Jesus take care of the bad fish in the dragnet? ( Matt 13:47-50; )
Why didn't Jesus take care of the badly dressed man at the wedding feast? ( Matt 22:11-13; )
Why didn't Jesus take care of everyone who ate and dined with Him and called Him Lord? ( Luke 13:24-28; )

This message may seem to be full of doom and gloom for some. It may seem legalistic to others.
Take it as you will, but the point here is, we need to be obedient to the Holy Spirit, we need to bear fruits of the Spirit.
Jesus will help us along, he will be our advocate and intercessor, he is a sympathetic high priest.
But he doesn't take care of everything for us, we have to do our part as well.

 

[B-A-C]

Do we know what it means to inherit the kingdom? If kingdom means heaven, inherit heaven, doesn't make sense - how can we obtain God's own dwelling place?
To inherit the kingdom basically means to experience the enjoyment of that kingdom.

This would be an interesting study I think. There seem to be many opinions about this.

The Bible has a lot of verses about inheritance.
Matt 5:3; Matt 5:5; Matt 5:10; Eph 1:11; Eph 1:14; Eph 1:18; Eph 5:5; Col 1:12; Col 3:24; 1 Pet 1:4; etc..
Esau sold his birthright (inheritance) for a bowl of stew and God hated him for doing so.
Perhaps a study on inheritance is needed?

As for the difference between salvation and entering the physical place of heaven (i.e. the new Jerusalem, or some spiritual place beyond the stars)
I've heard many opinions on this also.

A recent one goes something like this, (although I may not have it exactly right)
Unbelievers whose names aren't in the book of life get thrown into the lake of fire. ( I agree with this part )
Believers who believe in Jesus but don't practice living righteously are saved from the lake of fire, but they aren't allowed to enter heaven
or the new Jerusalem. They are the ones cast into the outer darkness. ( Matt 25:30; Matt 8:12; Matt 22:13;, etc.. )
Some say this means that there is no need for the sun or moon
anymore in the new Jerusalem because Jesus is the light there. ( Rev 21:23-25; ) but they believe outside the city is darkness.
They believe there is yet a third group of believers who are believers who practice living righteously who are able to enter into heaven and the new Jerusalem.

I'm not sure I buy all of that, but perhaps but is worth studying, just to see if there are holes in this theology?
If you are someone who believes this, perhaps you should be the one to lead this study as I am not sure I have it completely explained correctly.

 

[james1523]

This would be an interesting study I think. There seem to be many opinions about this.

The Bible has a lot of verses about inheritance.
Matt 5:3; Matt 5:5; Matt 5:10; Eph 1:11; Eph 1:14; Eph 1:18; Eph 5:5; Col 1:12; Col 3:24; 1 Pet 1:4; etc..
Esau sold his birthright (inheritance) for a bowl of stew and God hated him for doing so.
Perhaps a study on inheritance is needed?

As for the difference between salvation and entering the physical place of heaven (i.e. the new Jerusalem, or some spiritual place beyond the stars)
I've heard many opinions on this also.

A recent one goes something like this, (although I may not have it exactly right)
Unbelievers whose names aren't in the book of life get thrown into the lake of fire. ( I agree with this part )
Believers who believe in Jesus but don't practice living righteously are saved from the lake of fire, but they aren't allowed to enter heaven
or the new Jerusalem. They are the ones cast into the outer darkness. ( Matt 25:30; Matt 8:12; Matt 22:13;, etc.. )
Some say this means that there is no need for the sun or moon
anymore in the new Jerusalem because Jesus is the light there. ( Rev 21:23-25; ) but they believe outside the city is darkness.
They believe there is yet a third group of believers who are believers who practice living righteously who are able to enter into heaven and the new Jerusalem.

I'm not sure I buy all of that, but perhaps but is worth studying, just to see if there are holes in this theology?
If you are someone who believes this, perhaps you should be the one to lead this study as I am not sure I have it completely explained correctly.

I think New Jerusalem etc has been covered on a number of other threads, but there maybe has not been a thread on what is our inheritance as believers.

 

[B-A-C]

The body of believers.. they all ate the same spiritual food, and they all drank from the spiritual rock (Christ)

1 Cor 10:3; They all ate the same spiritual food
1 Cor 10:4; and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Cor 10:5; Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
1 Cor 10:6; Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did.
1 Cor 10:7; Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry."
1 Cor 10:8; We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died.
1 Cor 10:9; We should not test Christ, as some of them did--and were killed by snakes.

Even though they have partaken of the spiritual food and the spiritual rock, God still wasn't happy with some of them.

1 Cor 10:10; And do not grumble, as some of them did--and were killed by the destroying angel.
1 Cor 10:11; These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.
1 Cor 10:12; So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!