KJV & Other Bible Version: For The Curious

[Ceptor]

Looks like I'll need to have a LOT more understanding to form an opinion on this one. *grumpy face*

lol.. you poor thing, cheer up! The longer I live, the more attached to my KJV I become. Even when I pick another version up, I start having problems with this or that or the other. You have to study regardless what version you use, so for me, it has become more of an easy choice.

When I consider the other versions, IN MY OWN MIND, they are far from adequate. I consider the KJV:

[ONE] The original. Meaning there is no question of it's inspiration. The New Testament, which is "THE END" of the book God wrote.... was finalized in the KJV. It's the original first agreement, second agreement compilation of God's Word in english.

[TWO] It's written in a Royal manner. That is, written suitable for a King. Shakespeare is world renown for his elegant and majestic style. It's the best of the best in the secular world. But Shakespeare has nothing on God's KJV Bible. In one sentence, it's far superior to the worlds best known literature. And I believe God inspired the best person to do it the first time, because (this is all my own opinion keep in mind) God is God and He does everything right the first time. Even the evil in this world is no argument against that, God planned every second of what happens in our daily lives.

[THREE] I can talk to anyone about the Bible, but those that read the KJV, we know things others don't. Like what one is referring to immediately before they finish a sentence. Others will need passage lookups because even if they all read the the same passages, they all have different books. Tom: "I read a modern version" Jim: "Huh, so do I..." Tom quotes a verse.......... Jim: "Where is that at? I need to look it up." Tom gives address in Bible...... Jim: "Ohhh, I know that verse by heart." Tom: "Which verse?" (They aren't exactly the same verse lol)

[FOUR] (This ties into three) - Well known passages. Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death... Every one of you can probably nail me with where that is.. All things work together for the good of those that love God... Everyone's hand in class went up on that note too.... (I'm working on a system and will be VERBATIM memorizing everything I can like a robot downloading golden data.. but notice, even if I make a mistake, you can all hit these verses. Not so with new translations) How about this one... Resist the Devil, and he will flee from you.. Judge not that ye be not judged / and with it / judge not on the appearance but judge with righteous judgment. --- Lukewarm, spew you out of my mouth.............. Study to show thyself approved, etc etc etc etc etc.. list goes on.

These are just a few of my own reasons that leave me unable to pick up another Bible when I have my KJV. Every other Bible for me is a commentary... akin to Matthew Henry's Commentary. (Which I love for understanding, he's a great teacher who loves God and God's Word)


Like I always make note of, I'm not bashing your chosen Bible versions. I'm stating my own reasons. These are among the simpler sitting ducks that I've never got around in the first place. The "accuracy" thing... well, they can walk in circles around me if they know enough, but it's never changed the ducks. They keep quacking at me.

 

[Bendito]

In another thread the debate on "versions" and the KJV came up. I decided to start a thread for information on the subject for those who would like to look deeper concerning it.

Years ago I done much research regarding this, and seen the KJV as the number one absolute. This does not mean I condemn other Bible versions. I believe God uses them all to His glory and to save souls regardless of the underlying problems many have found with them. He is able to bring good out of anything being the Creator and Sustainer of all things.

If you have any wonder in your mind concerning this, or if you have information for your view and opinion concerning it I would love to see everyone come to some common ground on understanding regarding the history of Scripture and how it has formed what we all have access to today.

I will also, as time permits, post things I've learned and remember.. links to information, or studies I find online or in my archive of information I still need to organize more thoroughly.

I hope this will be a blessing to many.

Keep in mind that while there are many translations of the Bible, some leave out vital need to know information. Like some translations leave out all references to the Blood of Christ....That's vital because its His blood, poured out for us, that is the sign of the ratification of the covenant we live by... If the translation you are looking at leaves this out....trash it.

 

[Dave M]

Ceptor Good to see you posting again!!

 

[Ceptor]

:laugh: Good ol' Dave. It's good to be back man. Had a rough patch, but I'm up and kicking. It's good to see you too man. Nice new pic! I oddly miss that sideways optical illusion photo you had.

 

[Ellie]

lol.. you poor thing, cheer up! The longer I live, the more attached to my KJV I become. Even when I pick another version up, I start having problems with this or that or the other. You have to study regardless what version you use, so for me, it has become more of an easy choice.

When I consider the other versions, IN MY OWN MIND, they are far from adequate. I consider the KJV:

[ONE] The original. Meaning there is no question of it's inspiration. The New Testament, which is "THE END" of the book God wrote.... was finalized in the KJV. It's the original first agreement, second agreement compilation of God's Word in english.
.

Isn't the RSV translated from the same manuscripts that the KJV is? From my understanding there were 2 groups of text that was translated from. The first was the "majority" texts which were found to date back to about 200AD and thought of as the "original". I know that KJV comes from that, but thought that there was at least 2 other versions that also were translated using those. The second group used the "minority" texts which were found to be a little older, 100AD, but seemed to be set aside, like their was possibly a reason they were found how they were (behind a wall in an abbey somewhere?)

My only difficulty with the KJV is the old english. I just cannot seem to make sense of the wording at times, which leads to confusion for me. But, I have only been reading my bible for almost 2 months now lol .....so perhaps it grows on a person in time?

Thanks a bunch Ceptor for your humor and patience.

 

[Ceptor]

Ellie,

I'm short on time so the this is going to be thoughts only, gotta write some articles!

As far as the RSV question goes, my opinion about KJV vs other translations isn't solely on what manuscripts were used, but also who translated them. I personally feel that the people in King James' day were much better suited to do the work. A lot of my thought patterns and logic work this way, as in from an overall viewpoint or perspective rather than "modern is better".

For one, these were people that spent their time on nothing BUT literature. They didn't waste their time with computers, or have a million things distracting them. They didn't have much to pull their attention from their work. Life ran at a much different pace in that time period, and not only this, but money wasn't an issue (conflict of interest). The King ordered it and it was done (and they likely still were well compensated for their efforts, though this is an assumption as I haven't had time to delve that deep in research) When it comes to languages, I don't think even the so called "scholars" of today could compare to the intelligence and understanding they had on the subject. Their entire existence was immersed in literature and there was no "competition" for which verses to leave out or put it... IT ALL GOT TRANSLATED unless there was a super big issue. Modern versions erase so much scripture I worry for their souls when I read the last chapter in the Bible... It might end bad for the translators and still end up saving souls missing verses.

Two, the person that ordered the decree SINCERELY believed in God and serving Him. That is, King James. People usually don't know He had to fight the Catholic Church (Papacy) just to be able to order the writing of the Bible we have today. The Pope pretty much ordered kings all over Europe around with "religious" power and orders. Good ol' James wasn't having it. He felt it wasn't fair the Papacy disallow reading of the scripture for oneself. So, he set out to make an English READABLE copy/translation of Scripture for the lesser class to learn of God for themselves, rather than to be "told" what to believe. Most don't understand just how powerful a figure King James has been in God's arsenal for salvation of souls through this Bible.

Three, they use ye, thee, and thou to correspond with the Hebrew language. They didn't even use that in their language when the Bible was written!! It had been extinct from their language for 400 or some odd years but they used it because it was more accurate for translation. THAT shows dedication to ACCURACY. They don't have that type mindset these days. I didn't check this link in detail, but here is a rundown that should be accurate. The first paragraph is on key.

Do We Need Thee and Thou?




As for the difficultly of reading old english, I get it believe me. For a man that has been reading from the same old Bible for 22 years, I understand your pain. But here's what I think of when I've contemplated it for myself. Is it worth it? For me, it absolutely is. And yes it grows on you. (Kind of cool when you start SPEAKING old english without even trying, like when you pray out loud.. everyone KNOWS you're reading your Bible... LOL)

Try this out and see if it helps. This is my take on using the new tools without sacrificing my accurate & inspired translation.

Instead of just reading with one Bible, read the KJV but keep a modern version you like handy for a commentary. While you're reading, if you come across things that don't hit you right - pick the other version up and do a quick review of the passage.

Before long, things start making more sense. Not everything, but a lot of it.

And what I don't understand? IT REMINDS AND ENCOURAGES ME TO STUDY. So where's the downside in that?

(1) It's not impossible for me to read.
(2) It makes you more intelligent.
(3) It encourages you to do what you should anyway.
(4) There is no "doubt" of whether it's accurate.
(5) When you memorize scripture you know what it means and people usually know too. (and if they don't it gives you a chance to create curiosity, make yourself known to be dedicated, and teach about God's Word!)

When someone asks me about scripture, that is a Holy Book written by God... I don't want them asking "which version do you use?" (or memorize especially) How many inspired versions ARE there really? They have more than ten or fifteen or more.. I've heard them quote KJV and then I've heard them quote "other" versions.. I don't quite "feel" the power from the rest.

I get that it isn't easy, but life isn't either! :laugh: And I figure if I'm going to get GOLD I'm going to have to dig for it. So it makes sense to me.

I'm not saying to sacrifice the help of the modern versions either though. I won't throw out my KJV, but I also keep an ESV handy normally and I read from it when I feel I want or need to.
I don't see any reason to completely sacrifice the readability of modern translations.. But I also won't replace my KJV. My ESV can do it's job perfectly fine without taking my KJV's spot on my nightstand.

Most that prefer modern versions have probably altogether left this thread.. they usually do and the conversation turns into a select few.. lol. They hate listening to the long list of reasons... What can I do though? I tried to be conservative and fair, I feel the KJV just has an unfair advantage in that it IS what it IS. And is IS tested by time. But that again as always is my view. Who knows, maybe I should start a KJV ONLY THREAD!!! :laugh:

ps, And for the older "set aside" manuscript you spoke of.. yes, it was set aside for a reason.. if I remember right you might be referring to the ones they found in a TRASH CAN lololol.... IDK.. But I can tell you from studying the subject I have come across and read material about what you're referring to and older doesn't mean more accurate. It's a typical misconception. :coffee:

 

[Ceptor]

A quick mention here... Don't let anyone "chain" you down on this subject. If you're having trouble with understanding things you can always use both like I mentioned.

Most people take me holding fact to the facts concerning the KJV as tossing the rest out and saying they are of no use. Not so.

Here's a tool you can use if you want study things in the Bible. It's a great website especially if you are struggling with old english.


(this is the parallel scripture section, it's awesome)
Genesis 1 Parallel Chapters

Along with the KJV Bible, if there is a word you want to know the original Hebrew or Greek meaning of say like... in John 3:16.

King James Bible
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

We will use "everlasting." You can click the hebrew or greek tabs near the top on either side of the screen, type in the book chapter and verse number and then the word..

Old Testament = Hebrew New Testament = Greek

So we would select the "greek" tab and in the search bar under greek we would put:

John 3:16 everlasting


This will bring up a description of what the word means in greek, the original greek word that is.

It will look funny the way the format shows on the screen, but like anything else if you decide to use it it starts becoming second nature.

 

[Ellie]

[QUOTE="
.[/QUOTE]

Ceptor ...I am humbled at the time you took out of your endeavors to respond. That helped very, very much! Thanks much!

 

[Ceptor]

This is what my time is for Ellie. God and His people come first, the "endeavors" are the side gig. I'm very glad what He gave me is of use to you. I just hope I didn't step on any toes in the process. lol

And as a great man I know says, Give God The Glory.

 

[Ellie]

A quick mention here... Don't let anyone "chain" you down on this subject. If you're having trouble with understanding things you can always use both like I mentioned.

Most people take me holding fact to the facts concerning the KJV as tossing the rest out and saying they are of no use. Not so.

Here's a tool you can use if you want study things in the Bible. It's a great website especially if you are struggling with old english.


(this is the parallel scripture section, it's awesome)
Genesis 1 Parallel Chapters

Along with the KJV Bible, if there is a word you want to know the original Hebrew or Greek meaning of say like... in John 3:16.

King James Bible
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

We will use "everlasting." You can click the hebrew or greek tabs near the top on either side of the screen, type in the book chapter and verse number and then the word..

Old Testament = Hebrew New Testament = Greek

So we would select the "greek" tab and in the search bar under greek we would put:

John 3:16 everlasting


This will bring up a description of what the word means in greek, the original greek word that is.

It will look funny the way the format shows on the screen, but like anything else if you decide to use it it starts becoming second nature.

OK ... I really liked that parallel bible feature, but I can't seem to get it to work. Are you able to walk me through it?

 

[Ceptor]

OK ... I really liked that parallel bible feature, but I can't seem to get it to work. Are you able to walk me through it?

Of course I can show you. lol

It's really easy, they just don't have the clicky spots all labeled for what you want.

So you pull up Bible Hub obviously, and then type in the book, chapter and verse first in the search bar.

Then when it brings up the page with the single verse you can click the chapter link highlighted in the image above in the red rectangle. It will bring up the whole chapter in parallel mode for context with the different versions.